# When will they admit to having an anti-gravity plane? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 20, 2019, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-they-admit-to-having-an-anti-gravity-plane/828088 "2019-01-20T01:51:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2019, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-they-admit-to-having-an-anti-gravity-plane/828088/41 "2019-01-20T18:10:29Z")
Maybe it uses a 1920s style death ray to fly? ---
**Author:** ![Ancient\_Erudite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Ancient\_Erudite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ancient_Erudite)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2019, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-they-admit-to-having-an-anti-gravity-plane/828088/42 "2019-01-20T18:23:09Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Google “escape velocity” and prepare for a surprise! 😉 Does Anti gravity need escape velocity? My understanding is the higher the gravity of a body (Planet, moon, asteroid ) , the greater the ecaspe velocity needs to be. But if the object has no gravity effect, the rules change…I think If scientists ever figure out how to use the earth’s magnetic field, perhaps that is all they will need. Or maybe there is something with electricity and magnets, combined with other elements that can achieve this effect? ---
**Author:** ![Ancient\_Erudite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Ancient\_Erudite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ancient_Erudite)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2019, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-they-admit-to-having-an-anti-gravity-plane/828088/43 "2019-01-20T18:28:11Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > If someday you look up into the sky and see a strange looking, triangular UFO with a round orb in the center, dont freak. Its not aliens. Its the advanced TR-3B aircraft. I believe they call it the [ASTRA](https://www.matrixdisclosure.com/tr-3b-black-triangle/). > > Yes,[the Air Force has a working plane which has uses anti gravity to fly.](https://www.matrixdisclosure.com/tr-3b-secret-plane-black-triangle/) What I’m reading is the TR-3B uses rotating magnetic coils powered by a nuclear engine which reduce about 87% of weight. > > Some say it can even [fly into space](https://www.military.com/video/aircraft/military-aircraft/tr-3b-aurora-anti-gravity-spacecrafts/2860314511001). Well that might be a little much because even if it can fly into space it must then fly back thru the atmosphere where heat from atmospheric friction causes problems. > Its pretty advanced stuff, way more than even the stealth bomber. Even though the Nazis actually got this started with their [Nazi Bell.](https://sites.google.com/site/nazibelluncovered/) > > How long will it be before they roll this out and let everyone see this? How long until everyone sees it? My reply is if its out there, not much longer. With the privatization of space and easy of camera use and sharing of video if a ship of size is out there, it will be seen perhaps as early as the next 10 years. ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2019, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-they-admit-to-having-an-anti-gravity-plane/828088/44 "2019-01-20T18:39:29Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Of course, any object that could exclude itself from Earth’s gravity would be instantly flung off this rapidly-rotating planet the way a wet dog shakes water from his fur. That’s a fun image, but balloons beg to differ. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2019, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-they-admit-to-having-an-anti-gravity-plane/828088/45 "2019-01-20T18:44:52Z")
> [@Ancient\_Erudite](#): > > Does Anti gravity need escape velocity? My comment was in reference to “what goes up must come down”. The Voyager spacecraft and New Horizons are three counterexamples to that platitude, although I admit that if they do come back down and bonk me on the head, it will be my turn to be surprised. 😉 As for anti-gravity, it doesn’t exist. Or maybe I should say, either it doesn’t exist, or our understanding of physics is so fundamentally wrong that an entirely different physics exists in which an object is able to decouple itself from the intrinsic gravitational curvature of spacetime. I suppose one way it could do this is to temporarily cease to exist, which would be an impressive feat, especially if done only with some coils and magnets! ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2019, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-they-admit-to-having-an-anti-gravity-plane/828088/46 "2019-01-20T19:09:15Z")
Let us assume, for a moment, that the Air Force actually does have some super-top-secret prototype plane which uses some completely novel, groundbreaking, change-our-theories-on-physics propulsion system. As SamuelA notes, “Several thousand people have 100% all kept quiet, who have in turn been secretly working to exploit these new fields with no leaks whatsover.” But, even beyond that, we have, for the past two years, had a president who has access to all manner of highly classified information, as well as a demonstrated penchant for running his mouth (particularly when he gets to brag about something). No way in hell this would have stayed unrevealed. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2019, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-they-admit-to-having-an-anti-gravity-plane/828088/47 "2019-01-20T20:20:01Z")
> [@Ancient\_Erudite](#): > > Does Anti gravity need escape velocity? My understanding is the higher the gravity of a body (Planet, moon, asteroid ) , the greater the ecaspe velocity needs to be. But if the object has no gravity effect, the rules change…I think Gravity is an integral part of modern physics. If an object has no “gravity effect” then there are no rules we can apply. It’s pure magic. > [@jackdavinci](#): > > That’s a fun image, but balloons beg to differ. Lighter-than-air balloons have buoyancy, not anti-gravity. They sit in the atmosphere in the same way that fish sit in the ocean and don’t start squirting out of the water. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2019, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-they-admit-to-having-an-anti-gravity-plane/828088/48 "2019-01-20T20:34:47Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > Right after they release that car that runs on water. I think this is what is commonly called a hydrogen fuel cell, and I think they have those already. 😛 I’m pretty sure the OPs ‘anti-gravity’ plane isn’t going to be released in the foreseeable future, however, since it almost certainly doesn’t exist. NASA is working on some fairly exotic propulsion technologies, but actual anti-gravity isn’t one of them as we are still studying gravity and, as far as I know, haven’t yet identified an anti-particle or force for gravity as yet. Not to say it’s impossible, but short of very advanced aliens coming down and giving us the tech to play with it’s going to be a pretty long time before that comes out. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2019, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-they-admit-to-having-an-anti-gravity-plane/828088/49 "2019-01-20T20:35:53Z")
It occurs to me that anti-gravity would be really cool for other than obvious reasons. We could go inside black holes, explore singularities, and pop right back out again in violation of all kinds of physical laws. We could probably exploit the reversal of space and time inside the event horizon and achieve time travel! We could achieve unlimited free energy by using a black hole’s gravitational attraction to accelerate to nearly the speed of light, then switch on anti-gravity and coast on at nearly the speed of light, at no propulsion cost at all. And since it seems like a prerequisite to anti-gravity to be able to temporarily cease to exist, that, too, would be a wonderful boon, such as if you have an awful headache or your wife is yelling at you. And to think, it can all be done with some coils and magnets! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2019, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-they-admit-to-having-an-anti-gravity-plane/828088/50 "2019-01-20T20:40:38Z")
> [@jackdavinci](#): > > That’s a fun image, but balloons beg to differ. 😛 Balloons don’t instantly cancel all or even 87% of gravity effects, instead they have lift and basically float on air, being lighter than air. Sort of like a boat floats on water (actually, exactly like a boat floats on water). If you were to negate gravity completely you’d basically be flying off at the speed of the earths rotation as well as the speed of the earths orbit along with the speed of the solar system moving through the galaxy and, probably, the speed of the galaxy moving through the universe (plus possibly some other stuff I haven’t thought of in my present inebriated state). Think of it like having a ball on a string that you swing around yourself. Now consider…what happens to the ball when you let go? That’s what’s going to happen if you could actually cancel gravity. It would be…exciting. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2019, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-they-admit-to-having-an-anti-gravity-plane/828088/51 "2019-01-20T21:27:46Z")
> [@Chingon](#): > > For fun, just remember that the OP was/is a science teacher. Do not personalize your arguments in this fashion. If you feel you must, the Pit is right around the corner. [/moderating] ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2019, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-they-admit-to-having-an-anti-gravity-plane/828088/52 "2019-01-20T23:33:33Z")
Note in the current best theory of gravitation, which is Einstein’s theory of General Relativity, gravity isn’t a real force at all. While the above replies and the OP depend on the superseded Newtonian concept. The \*fictional force \*one feels and calls _gravity_ is an artifact of existing of a specific reference frame in curved spacetime while assuming it is flat. The entire claim is exactly like a “flat earth” argument, which only seems probable because one is ignorant of centuries of data, observations and some of the most accurate predictions ever made in the field of Science. Even if it does exist and perhaps they called it _“anti-gravity”_ just as as the stealth fighter is called the [Nighthawk](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nighthawk) despite not actually being a _nocturnal bird of the subfamily Chordeilina_ But looking at the claims, the only reason the term is called _“anti-gravity”_ is because the people passing on these stories don’t have a background in modern physics. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2019, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-they-admit-to-having-an-anti-gravity-plane/828088/53 "2019-01-20T23:45:43Z")
Has anyone done a Google Search on John St. Clair of San Juan, PR, the inventor of this marvelous vehicle? Among his other inventions: [An apparatus which enhances the ability of a person to perform remote viewing by connecting the human spiritual eye to the tetrahedral geometry of subspace.](https://patents.google.com/patent/US20060072226A1/en) [A magnetic vortex wormhole generator.](http://www.ufohowto.com/magnetic%20vortex%20wormhole%20generator.pdf) [“A training system which enables a human being to acquire sufficient hyperspace energy in order to pull the body out of dimension so that the person can walk through solid objects such as wooden doors.”](http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PG01&s1=20060014125&OS=20060014125&RS=20060014125) [A hyperspace energy generator that uses cavitating oil bubbles within a magnetic field in order to create wormholes between space and hyperspace for the purpose of permeating the hull of a spacecraft with low-density hyperspace energy.](https://patents.justia.com/patent/20040200925) (For those who get motion sickness when they use the magnetic vortex generator?) And, as near as I can tell, about 12 more. ---
**Author:** ![SamuelA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@SamuelA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SamuelA)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2019, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-they-admit-to-having-an-anti-gravity-plane/828088/54 "2019-01-21T00:45:49Z")
Also, umm, the U.S. military has a [production combat aircraft](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Martin_F-35_Lightning_II) with a lift fan. At least for a little while, it can take off vertically and hover around a bit. Maybe this is what the OP thinks must mean “anti gravity”, since normally an airplane does need forward motion to remain in flight. And it’s entirely possible there are unannounced prototype aircraft that also use a similar lift fan design. A logical and incremental step forward would be to make a smaller drone aircraft with VTOL capability and stealth, but smaller and cheaper\* to mass manufacture. This is an entirely logical thing to experiment with, and with the latest _announced_ breakthroughs in machine learning, it appears more feasible than ever. \*you could trade off reliability and design lifespan for lower manufacturing cost. With no pilot, crashes don’t generate casualties, and you could train the autonomy software mostly in simulators and every copy of the aircraft fleet has the same “experience level” of real life training With human piloted aircraft, you need each pilot to have their “own” aircraft that they put hundreds or even thousands of flight hours on to get better - you could train an AI on just a few flying examples and a lot of simulation time. The majority of the aircraft fleet would be flown just for post-manufacturing testing, then would be carefully stored until the very next flight is a combat mission. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2019, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-they-admit-to-having-an-anti-gravity-plane/828088/55 "2019-01-21T01:10:16Z")
_The government will do anything to protect this technology. Plasma-based on mercury at 250,000 atmospheres and at a temperature of 150 degrees Kelvin and accelerated to 50,000 revolutions/minute, creates superconductive plasma as a result of the interruption of gravity (levitation)_ Mercury plasma at 253Kbar at -123°C. Sounds entirely reasonable. :dubious: _The mass of the circular accelerator and the entire mass … (is) reduced by 89%. This makes the vehicle extremely easy and able to overcome the performances and maneuvers of any aircraft ever built … TR-3B, evolves at high altitude, invisible (using STEALTH technology), being a recognition platform with indefinite flying time. Once it arrives at high speed, it does not need much propulsion to maintain altitude._ At first I wondered what language this text was translated from, but then it made sense: the bad composition and science is specifically employed, to deflect away anyone with enough sense to call bullshit, but gullible, credulous ignoramuses are more likely to be drawn in. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2019, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-they-admit-to-having-an-anti-gravity-plane/828088/56 "2019-01-21T01:50:15Z")
You know, I’m not seeing a debate here, Great or otherwise. I’m barely seeing coherence. Try better next time, please. Closed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-they-admit-to-having-an-anti-gravity-plane/828088.md?page=2)