# When will TV be exclusively high definition? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 24, 2009, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-tv-be-exclusively-high-definition/504160 "2009-07-24T21:24:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BrandonR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@BrandonR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrandonR)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2009, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-tv-be-exclusively-high-definition/504160/1 "2009-07-24T21:24:32Z")
I hate having two sets of channels on my digital cable – high def and regular. I hate even more having to flip between the two sets to watch the handful of channels that aren’t yet broadcast in high def (in the midst of all my other HD programming). How much longer am I going to have to put up with this? I want to see the low-numbered channels on my guide be the high-def ones, and not have to venture into the 700s to see HD content… Is there any kind of timeframe available? Or will SD TV continue to be present into the foreseeable future? ---
**Author:** ![Drum\_God](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drum_god/32/44_2.png) [@Drum\_God](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drum_God)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2009, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-tv-be-exclusively-high-definition/504160/2 "2009-07-24T21:37:00Z")
> [@BrandonR](#): > > I hate having two sets of channels on my digital cable – high def and regular. I hate even more having to flip between the two sets to watch the handful of channels that aren’t yet broadcast in high def (in the midst of all my other HD programming). > > How much longer am I going to have to put up with this? I want to see the low-numbered channels on my guide be the high-def ones, and not have to venture into the 700s to see HD content… Is there any kind of timeframe available? Or will SD TV continue to be present into the foreseeable future? Get DirecTV. It doesn’t do that. ETA: I’m sorry, I guess that wasn’t really very helpful. I don’t have a good answer, really. Can’t you edit the SD channels out of your channel line up? On DirecTV, when there is an SD program on an HD channel, the program is presented with pillar boxes. Does you cable do that? With us, the DVR simply takes out SD duplicates of HD channels. There is no switching back and forth. When I want to watch channel 24, I punch up 24. Easy. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2009, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-tv-be-exclusively-high-definition/504160/3 "2009-07-24T21:43:58Z")
Call your cable/satellite company. Where they put the HD channels on their system is strictly up to them. Maybe they have a remote where you can program in “favorite channels” instead of having to punch in the numbers. As for SD channels – well, the SD stands for “Standard Definition” so I’m guessing it will continue to be the standard for quite some time. After all, the old NTSC standards were adopted in 1941 and lasted 68 years. ---
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2009, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-tv-be-exclusively-high-definition/504160/4 "2009-07-24T22:10:39Z")
Most likely you won’t ever get high def. Let’s face it, there are tons of old programs which are not high def and most likely will never be converted. High def is a gimick. I mean is _Seinfeld_ any funnier because it’s clearer. Did Eli Manning make a catch because you can see it better? Outside of nature shows, what is the point of seeing things clearer? And in that case it’s probably better to go outside and look for real. Shows like _I Love Lucy_ are popular but will merely be upconverted. In fact cable and dish compress their high def as compared to OTA (over the air) so the channels that are High Def on your cable and dishes are not actually high def. Well they meet the legal definition but they are compressed compared to OTA signals. And even OTA signals are starting to be compressed more. So beware even when you are getting high def, make sure you’re paying for high def and not merely upconverted formats. ---
**Author:** ![BrandonR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@BrandonR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrandonR)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2009, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-tv-be-exclusively-high-definition/504160/5 "2009-07-24T23:08:06Z")
> [@Markxxx](#): > > Most likely you won’t ever get high def. Let’s face it, there are tons of old programs which are not high def and most likely will never be converted. High def is a gimick. I mean is _Seinfeld_ any funnier because it’s clearer. Did Eli Manning make a catch because you can see it better? Outside of nature shows, what is the point of seeing things clearer? And in that case it’s probably better to go outside and look for real. > > Shows like _I Love Lucy_ are popular but will merely be upconverted. In fact cable and dish compress their high def as compared to OTA (over the air) so the channels that are High Def on your cable and dishes are not actually high def. Well they meet the legal definition but they are compressed compared to OTA signals. > > And even OTA signals are starting to be compressed more. > > So beware even when you are getting high def, make sure you’re paying for high def and not merely upconverted formats. Hell, even some upconverted shows look pretty decent. TBS upconverts Seinfeld for their HD station and it looks surprisingly good. I could deal with that, or even letterboxed formats. And uhh, I suppose you could make all those arguments about color TV but the times changed and everything switched over (yet they still play non-color programs on TV). I’m sure high def will be the new “color” someday. ---
**Author:** ![Drum\_God](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drum_god/32/44_2.png) [@Drum\_God](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drum_God)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2009, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-tv-be-exclusively-high-definition/504160/6 "2009-07-24T23:41:21Z")
> [@Markxxx](#): > > Most likely you won’t ever get high def. Let’s face it, there are tons of old programs which are not high def and most likely will never be converted. High def is a gimick. I mean is _Seinfeld_ any funnier because it’s clearer. Did Eli Manning make a catch because you can see it better? Outside of nature shows, what is the point of seeing things clearer? And in that case it’s probably better to go outside and look for real. > > Shows like _I Love Lucy_ are popular but will merely be upconverted. In fact cable and dish compress their high def as compared to OTA (over the air) so the channels that are High Def on your cable and dishes are not actually high def. Well they meet the legal definition but they are compressed compared to OTA signals. > > And even OTA signals are starting to be compressed more. > > So beware even when you are getting high def, make sure you’re paying for high def and not merely upconverted formats. Maybe I’m misunderstanding you, but HD is most certainly not a gimmick. It may be more important for some programs than others, but that is pretty subjective. Personally, I do think a football game looks better in HD. Eli Manning (who throws the ball) doesn’t care if or how I’m watching. Neither do his receivers. Compression does not affect the definition directly. If it is 1080i, then it’s 1080i. Compression may affect the quality of the picture, but it does not affect whether it is HD or not. TBS upconverts many recent sitcoms that were not actually created in HD. Many call it “stretch-o-vision”. They stretch the 4:3 aspect to 16:9. Your TV can do the same thing. I enjoy a great many things because I can see them clearer. Your logic would indicate that I should only wear my glasses when seeing is really important. I want to see clearly all the time, so I wear my glasses (or contact lenses) all the time. I want the best picture on TV all the time, whether it is a nature show, sports, or a game show. As to old programs, like _I Love Lucy_, you run into a different situation. Many programs were shot on film. This is “HD”, after a fashion. The aspect is 4:3, but the resolution is clearer than programs recorded on tape. You can even tell this on an SD television. Filmed programs appear sharper and have greater color depth than programs shot on tape. ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2009, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-tv-be-exclusively-high-definition/504160/7 "2009-07-24T23:50:16Z")
> [@BrandonR](#): > > TBS upconverts Seinfeld for their HD station and it looks surprisingly good. To me it still looks a lot worse than just watching the SD TBS feed on an actual SD set. ---
**Author:** ![Drum\_God](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drum_god/32/44_2.png) [@Drum\_God](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drum_God)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2009, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-tv-be-exclusively-high-definition/504160/8 "2009-07-24T23:56:20Z")
> [@TBG](#): > > To me it still looks a lot worse than just watching the SD TBS feed on an actual SD set. Agreed. They should just run them SD 4:3 instead of stretch. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-tv-be-exclusively-high-definition/504160/9 "2009-07-25T00:01:13Z")
> [@Markxxx](#): > > Most likely you won’t ever get high def. Let’s face it, there are tons of old programs which are not high def and most likely will never be converted. High def is a gimick. I mean is _Seinfeld_ any funnier because it’s clearer. Did Eli Manning make a catch because you can see it better? Outside of nature shows, what is the point of seeing things clearer? And in that case it’s probably better to go outside and look for real. > > Shows like _I Love Lucy_ are popular but will merely be upconverted. In fact cable and dish compress their high def as compared to OTA (over the air) so the channels that are High Def on your cable and dishes are not actually high def. Well they meet the legal definition but they are compressed compared to OTA signals. > > And even OTA signals are starting to be compressed more. > > So beware even when you are getting high def, make sure you’re paying for high def and not merely upconverted formats. That’s a shitty argument. What the OP is complaining about, and what I also get with Comcast cable, is that I have many channels that are in HD that I _can_ watch on my HDTV set downstairs, but _cannot_ on my SDTV upstairs. The OP is looking for a way to filter menu search results so it’s less confusing. I think. And, I take MAJOR issue with your assertion that HD is a gimmick. “Outside of nature shows”? Really? ALL sporting events look waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better in HD, it’s not even close. And as for upconverting, it should be a simple thing. At a bare minimum, older shows that were filmed before HD can’t be any worse presented in SD format on an HD set. And it isn’t just sports, either. HD is sharper, clearer, more colorful and generally so much better than anything SD has ever been I wonder if you’ve ever even seen an HD broadcast. Seriously? ---
**Author:** ![SeaDragonTattoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@SeaDragonTattoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeaDragonTattoo)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-tv-be-exclusively-high-definition/504160/10 "2009-07-25T01:05:22Z")
So true, **FoieGras**. The first time I watched a Cubs game after I got my HDTV, I thought it was really incredible. I didn’t watch the game so much as marvel at what I could see _in the stands_. I was like “Whoa, I think I can read that guy’s watch from here!”, and I don’t even like CSI:Miami, but it’s really beautiful in high definition. ---
**Author:** ![uglybeech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/82dd89/32.png) [@uglybeech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/uglybeech)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-tv-be-exclusively-high-definition/504160/11 "2009-07-25T01:09:19Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > Maybe they have a remote where you can program in “favorite channels” instead of having to punch in the numbers. This is the solution, just to highlight it. Other things SDTV is good for even with an HDTV? DVR recording. HD Programming takes up like four times the room on your DVR hard drive. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim_r.mortiss/32/142_2.png) [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_R.Mortiss)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-tv-be-exclusively-high-definition/504160/12 "2009-07-25T01:34:48Z")
I agree. I have Comcast cable, and have the HD versions in my favorites. Piece of cake. But I do occasionally navigate to the SD channels, especially if the DVR is getting full, or if there is a Burn Notice marathon or something like that which could fill it up overnight…TRM ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-tv-be-exclusively-high-definition/504160/13 "2009-07-25T01:58:07Z")
The one annoyance about HD programming is the amount of storage they take up in my Comcast DVR. It only has enough space for twenty hours of HD programming, so I need to be fairly aggressive about watching and then deleting programs. I wish they offered a DVR with more capacity. (Or that they used the approach that Cablevision is considering, where the programs are stored on cable company servers instead of the customer’s DVR.) ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim_r.mortiss/32/142_2.png) [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_R.Mortiss)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-tv-be-exclusively-high-definition/504160/14 "2009-07-25T02:00:17Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > The one annoyance about HD programming is the amount of storage they take up in my Comcast DVR. It only has enough space for twenty hours of HD programming, so I need to be fairly aggressive about watching and then deleting programs. I wish they offered a DVR with more capacity. _**(Or that they used the approach that Cablevision is considering, where the programs are stored on cable company servers instead of the customer’s DVR.)**_ They sort of do do that. I found that many of the shows I would normally DVR are available for free “On Demand.” This is on Camcast in Chicago. They keep four or five weeks worth of episodes of current weekly shows. ---
**Author:** ![Alex\_Dubinsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dbc845/32.png) [@Alex\_Dubinsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alex_Dubinsky)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-tv-be-exclusively-high-definition/504160/15 "2009-07-25T04:08:50Z")
Good question. Problem is bandwidth. The cable networks want to squeeze hundreds of channels, but to put them all in HD would require many times the bandwidth. But, eventually we’ll get there. Probably won’t take too long now. There’s some tricks, particularly not streaming all the channels at once, that really help out the bandwidth issue. Also, compression (unfortunately). All the other factors: the TVs, the cameras, the post-processing equipment are already in place waiting for the bandwidth to catch up. Btw, TWC already has 65 HD channels, and FiOS 81. Plus all the premiums. This is the same number of channels as the old analog cable system had in TOTAL. So maybe we’re already there, except the horizon keeps expanding. It might never stop expanding and when we have a thousand HD channels we’ll have three thousand SD. ---
**Author:** ![Alex\_Dubinsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dbc845/32.png) [@Alex\_Dubinsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alex_Dubinsky)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-tv-be-exclusively-high-definition/504160/16 "2009-07-25T04:24:57Z")
Actually, bandwidth might be a big problem for cable companies in the future, as it’s fundamentally limited by the physics of the CATV cables that have been laid. Read more [here](http://arstechnica.com/old/content/2007/08/report-cable-companies-facing-big-bandwidth-crunch.ars). > [@](#): > > If you’re starting to become frustrated with the download speed of your cable ISP or the relatively low number of HD channels available, you ain’t seen nothin’ yet. Your local cable provider will soon be faced with a serious bandwidth crunch. The problem comes from more demanding applications, including high-definition video, video on demand, online gaming, and higher-bandwidth Internet applications. The result? Big problems—like **fewer HD channels** > > Currently, cable providers need close to 750MHz of spectrum to deliver the goods. 750MHz of spectrum isn’t going to be enough in the future. Cable companies will have to make some significant hardware investments, including spectrum overlay devices that could provide up to 3GHz of spectrum. That should give cable companies bandwidth to enable cable providers to offer up to 54 HD channels (instead of just 12), increase its capacity for video on demand, and double download speeds on the ISP side of the business. It’s going to be expensive work, especially for an industry that has already spent over $100 billion on infrastructure over the last decade. > > Beyond expanding the spectrum available to them, the cable companies have a few other ways to address the upcoming bandwidth crunch, Schatt told Ars. Those include rate shaping (controlling the rate at which data packets are transmitted), digital switching (more on that below), overlaying fiber over existing coaxial cable installations, and better MPEG-4 compression (which will lower the bandwidth overhead for HD video). > > Ultimately, the cable companies will have to move to IPTV. It works by treating video programming as IP data, enabling IPTV providers to send just a handful of channels at a time to a customer’s house; traditional cable requires everything the provider carries to be pumped to the set-top box. > > Upgrading to a fiber infrastructure is a much more expensive proposition. It can happen, though. This article is from 2 years ago, and now we have our 54 channels and then some. Apparently, it’ll be a tough road from here. Verizon with its FiOS is looking peachy. Also, satellites seem to have good bandwidth. So the future of HD might be with those two. ---
**Author:** ![Tripler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripler/32/21807_2.png) [@Tripler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tripler)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-tv-be-exclusively-high-definition/504160/17 "2009-07-25T05:24:34Z")
[hijack] I just wanted to pop in and say that I thought this was a thread about when _all_ of the broadcast TV stations were gonna be in HDTV. I had heard there were a few holdouts (mostly because they couldn’t afford the new equipment). I was kind of hoping I could find out where to orient my rabbit ears on my 1972 Zenith 22" box set television. [/hijack] Tripler I got it on sale. $50 for 0.5 REM/hour in all its TE[COLOR=“YellowGreen”]C[/COLOR]HN[COLOR=“White”]I[COLOR=“SeaGreen”]C[/COLOR][/COLOR]OL[COLOR=“Orange”]OR[/COLOR] glory. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-tv-be-exclusively-high-definition/504160/18 "2009-07-25T07:23:41Z")
> [@Drum\_God](#): > > Agreed. They should just run them SD 4:3 instead of stretch. Why are they stretching them in the first place? Is it to do with the belief some people have that HD = widescreen? What happens if they have a letter boxed SD show like a movie? Do they still stretch it? ---
**Author:** ![BrandonR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@BrandonR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrandonR)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-tv-be-exclusively-high-definition/504160/19 "2009-07-25T13:41:57Z")
[quote=“1920s Style “Death Ray”, post:18, topic:504160”] Why are they stretching them in the first place? Is it to do with the belief some people have that HD = widescreen? What happens if they have a letter boxed SD show like a movie? Do they still stretch it? [/QUOTE] I’ve seen non-HD content aired on HD stations in a few ways. One way is they stretch it. Another way is they leave it at 4:3 and put something like the station’s logo in the sidebars, like ESPN does a lot when they air sports footage that wasn’t shot in HD. Yet another way I’ve seen it done is some filter is shown on either side of the 4:3 video that, at first glance, makes it appear that the image is taking up the entire screen (but in reality it’s just mirroring the edges of the 4:3 video to fill the rest of the screen). It’s kind of hard to describe and I have no clue what it’d be called to try and find a picture. As for my original question, I was indeed focusing on the fact that my digital cable TV guide has grown into two distinct sets of channels, the low-numbered, standard-definition TV stations (both local and cable stations), and high-numbered HD stations (local and cable again). I want those lower-numbered SD stations to be replaced with HD stations so that they’re the new standard and I won’t have to flip back and forth between the SD and HD stations to find certain shows. ---
**Author:** ![Spectralist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Spectralist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectralist)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-tv-be-exclusively-high-definition/504160/20 "2009-07-25T14:17:22Z")
> [@BrandonR](#): > > I want those lower-numbered SD stations to be replaced with HD stations so that they’re the new standard and I won’t have to flip back and forth between the SD and HD stations to find certain shows. The problem with that is that often the HD channels don’t play the same shows as their SD versions. And i don’t know about you but i often watch the SD shows on my HD TVs. Especially on A&E who does generally show the same show on both channels but stretches SD shows when showing them on the HD channel. So i end up watching the SD version so i can see it at the proper aspect ratio. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-tv-be-exclusively-high-definition/504160.md?page=2)