# When will we see Bush's pardons?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-we-see-bushs-pardons/481798
**Category:** In My Humble Opinion
**Created:** [January 18, 2009, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-we-see-bushs-pardons/481798 "2009-01-18T00:43:04Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@BarnOwl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BarnOwl)
#### Post date: [January 18, 2009, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-we-see-bushs-pardons/481798/1 "2009-01-18T00:43:04Z")
Who in his admin will be on it?
And do you think he’ll pardon himself?
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### Author:  [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)
#### Post date: [January 18, 2009, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-we-see-bushs-pardons/481798/2 "2009-01-18T00:46:24Z")
Maybe he forgot. 😃
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### Author:  [@AngelSoft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AngelSoft)
#### Post date: [January 18, 2009, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-we-see-bushs-pardons/481798/3 "2009-01-18T01:05:38Z")
But wouldn’t pardoning himself or those on his cabinet be saying “Yes, we did something illegal”? I mean obviously it won’t have any legal repurcussions but publically and historically it won’t look good.
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### Author:  [@BarnOwl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BarnOwl)
#### Post date: [January 18, 2009, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-we-see-bushs-pardons/481798/4 "2009-01-18T01:09:16Z")
Bush admitted he okayed torture. And there are other crimes he has to consider. Illegal wiretapping.
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### Author:  [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)
#### Post date: [January 18, 2009, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-we-see-bushs-pardons/481798/5 "2009-01-18T01:14:24Z")
> [@BarnOwl](#):
>
> Bush admitted he okayed torture. And there are other crimes he has to consider. Illegal wiretapping.
But he doesn’t think those are crimes. According to him and his team, he can do anything he wants to in the name of national security.
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### Author:  [@BarnOwl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BarnOwl)
#### Post date: [January 18, 2009, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-we-see-bushs-pardons/481798/6 "2009-01-18T01:17:26Z")
> [@Captain\_Carrot](#):
>
> But he doesn’t think those are crimes. According to him and his team, he can do anything he wants to in the name of national security.
Just because he thinks so, doesn’t make him above the law.
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### Author:  [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)
#### Post date: [January 18, 2009, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-we-see-bushs-pardons/481798/7 "2009-01-18T01:28:50Z")
> [@BarnOwl](#):
>
> Just because he thinks so, doesn’t make him above the law.
But he thinks so, so he’s not going to pardon himself or anyone else for them.
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### Author:  [@chacoguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chacoguy)
#### Post date: [January 18, 2009, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-we-see-bushs-pardons/481798/8 "2009-01-18T02:26:26Z")
I bet it’s like watching ‘Barry Bonds signing baseballs’ in the Whitehouse right now.
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### Author:  [@BarnOwl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BarnOwl)
#### Post date: [January 18, 2009, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-we-see-bushs-pardons/481798/9 "2009-01-18T02:43:50Z")
Actually, the White House is just about empty. The cleaning/refurb crew has taken over. There might be a skeleton staff in there to answer the phones, etc. - but that’s about it.
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### Author:  [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)
#### Post date: [January 18, 2009, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-we-see-bushs-pardons/481798/10 "2009-01-18T03:59:42Z")
I don’t think that they need to make them public, just deliver them to the people who are getting the pardons and enter them in some federal register (and yes there is a register called the federal register). So we will know by Tuesday for ones they announce and find out about other ones when entered, probably by the end of the week. Entering in the register is a ministerial act so under Marbury v. Madison sending them to be entered is all that is necessary, the courts can enforce it by dismissing prosecutions. They are going to pardon everyone, including Bush and Cheney. Stupid idiots if they don’t. And Cheney is not a stupid idiot.
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### Author:  [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)
#### Post date: [January 18, 2009, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-we-see-bushs-pardons/481798/11 "2009-01-18T05:50:25Z")
Bush isn’t going to pardon himself or his people, he doesn’t think they are guilty of anything. Based on what we’ve seen to this point, he’s not a big believer in using pardons at all. It’s hard to be shocked by anything he does at this point, but if he didn’t pardon anyone else, I would not be surprised.
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### Author:  [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)
#### Post date: [January 18, 2009, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-we-see-bushs-pardons/481798/12 "2009-01-18T06:01:13Z")
I predict there will be relatively few. A lot less than Clinton. Maybe those two Border Patrol guys.
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### Author:  [@BarnOwl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BarnOwl)
#### Post date: [January 18, 2009, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-we-see-bushs-pardons/481798/13 "2009-01-18T13:50:45Z")
> [@Loach](#):
>
> I predict there will be relatively few. A lot less than Clinton. Maybe those two Border Patrol guys.
I hope he does pardon those guys, **Loach**.
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### Author:  [@BarnOwl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BarnOwl)
#### Post date: [January 18, 2009, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-we-see-bushs-pardons/481798/14 "2009-01-18T14:31:01Z")
> [@Marley23](#):
>
> Bush isn’t going to pardon himself or his people, he doesn’t think they are guilty of anything. Based on what we’ve seen to this point, he’s not a big believer in using pardons at all. It’s hard to be shocked by anything he does at this point, but if he didn’t pardon anyone else, I would not be surprised.
No snark whatever in the following…
**Marley** , if you were in Bush’s shoes, would you pardon yourself? What do you think his lawyers are recommending? They are almsot certainly acutely aware of Bush’s legal vulnerabilities.
Can we suppose they are relying on Obama’s aversion to looking backward and thus confident that there’s no need of Bush self-pardoning?
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### Author:  [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)
#### Post date: [January 18, 2009, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-we-see-bushs-pardons/481798/15 "2009-01-18T17:31:54Z")
> [@BarnOwl](#):
>
> No snark whatever in the following…
>
> **Marley** , if you were in Bush’s shoes, would you pardon yourself? What do you think his lawyers are recommending? They are almsot certainly acutely aware of Bush’s legal vulnerabilities.
Since Bush’s lawyers are probably the same people who advised him that what he was doing was legal in the first place, I doubt they’re doing a 180 and advising Bush to pardon hisself.
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### Author:  [@BarnOwl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BarnOwl)
#### Post date: [January 18, 2009, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-we-see-bushs-pardons/481798/16 "2009-01-18T17:34:42Z")
> [@42fish](#):
>
> Since Bush’s lawyers are probably the same people who advised him that what he was doing was legal in the first place, I doubt they’re doing a 180 and advising Bush to pardon hisself.
They talk from both sides of their mouths over their asses like everyone else.
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### Author:  [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)
#### Post date: [January 18, 2009, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-we-see-bushs-pardons/481798/17 "2009-01-18T18:05:56Z")
Just a question - for a President to pardon someone, doesn’t there have to be a conviction, or at least an indictment? I mean, legally speaking, before an indictment is filed there is no crime, so how can the President pardon someone for a crime that doesn’t exist?
Is there any precident of a President pardoning someone who hasn’t been indicted?
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### Author:  [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)
#### Post date: [January 18, 2009, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-we-see-bushs-pardons/481798/18 "2009-01-18T18:10:44Z")
Ye.s They can be preemptive and nonspecific, as was Ford’s pardon of Nixon.
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### Author:  [@BarnOwl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BarnOwl)
#### Post date: [January 18, 2009, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-we-see-bushs-pardons/481798/19 "2009-01-18T18:26:55Z")
> [@Alessan](#):
>
> Just a question - for a President to pardon someone, doesn’t there have to be a conviction, or at least an indictment? I mean, legally speaking, before an indictment is filed there is no crime, so how can the President pardon someone for a crime that doesn’t exist?
>
> Is there any precedent of a President pardoning someone who hasn’t been indicted?
Elvis speaks the truth.
For an interesting discussion of Presidential Pardons go to
[http://pardonpower.com/labels/Context.html](http://pardonpower.com/labels/Context.html)
And click on the here at the end of the paragraph below where it says here.
Vanessa K. Burrows, a Legislative Attorney for the Congressional Research Service, has produced a CRS Report for members and committees of Congress entitled, “An Overview of the Presidential Pardoning Power.” The document is six pages in length and is dated January 7, 2009. You can view / download the document in its entirety here
You get a 6-page pdf but you might enjoy the read.
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### Author:  [@justrob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/justrob)
#### Post date: [January 18, 2009, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-we-see-bushs-pardons/481798/20 "2009-01-18T18:30:41Z")
Could Bush really pardon himself? That just seems really odd. You’d think if it was possible Nixon would have done it.
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