# When will we see Bush's pardons? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 18, 2009, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-we-see-bushs-pardons/481798 "2009-01-18T00:43:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![BarnOwl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e95f7d/32.png) [@BarnOwl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BarnOwl)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2009, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-we-see-bushs-pardons/481798/21 "2009-01-18T18:44:26Z")
> [@justrob](#): > > Could Bush really pardon himself? That just seems really odd. You’d think if it was possible Nixon would have done it. Didn’t need to. You think he chose Ford as his successor for the hell of it? Read that pdf I linked above. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2009, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-we-see-bushs-pardons/481798/22 "2009-01-18T18:56:25Z")
Ford at the same time issued a conditional pardon for Vietnam war resisters (which Carter made unconditional upon entering office). Again, no conviction or indictment required. ---
**Author:** ![justrob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a9adbd/32.png) [@justrob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/justrob)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2009, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-we-see-bushs-pardons/481798/23 "2009-01-18T22:13:28Z")
> [@BarnOwl](#): > > Didn’t need to. > > You think he chose Ford as his successor for the hell of it? > > Read that pdf I linked above. I thought Ford succeded him because he was Vice President. I suppose Nixon picked him knowing he would need a pardon. Since I don’t really know that much about Watergate I’ll bow out of this part. I read the pdf and it doesn’t say that the President **can’t** pardon himself. Does that mean that he **can**? If so I will say again that it seems really odd. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2009, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-we-see-bushs-pardons/481798/24 "2009-01-18T22:24:06Z")
> [@BarnOwl](#): > > **Marley** , if you were in Bush’s shoes, would you pardon yourself? I I were the kind of guy Bush is, I wouldn’t. He believes he’s done the right and necessary things and I doubt he believes he’s broken any laws, so he’s unlikely to pardon himself, seeing as how that admits guilt. > [@](#): > > What do you think his lawyers are recommending? They are almsot certainly acutely aware of Bush’s legal vulnerabilities. That’s harder to say. ---
**Author:** ![BarnOwl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e95f7d/32.png) [@BarnOwl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BarnOwl)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2009, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-we-see-bushs-pardons/481798/25 "2009-01-18T22:24:58Z")
> [@justrob](#): > > I thought Ford succeded him because he was Vice President. I suppose Nixon picked him knowing he would need a pardon. Since I don’t really know that much about Watergate I’ll bow out of this part. > I read the pdf and it doesn’t say that the President **can’t** pardon himself. Does that mean that he **can**? If so I will say again that it seems really odd. But I think you’ll find that it says his pardoning power is absolute. Which means he can pardon himself - except for impeachable situations. Nixon VP, Spiro Agnew was nailed for bribe taking while in office. This happened when Nixon was at the height of his Watergate problems. Agnew resigned, and Tricky Dick chose Ford for the job. The pardon followed. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Sensitive](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/58956e/32.png) [@Darth\_Sensitive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Sensitive)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2009, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-we-see-bushs-pardons/481798/26 "2009-01-18T23:22:05Z")
Can someone link me to a story on “those two border patrol guys”? ---
**Author:** ![TWDuke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@TWDuke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TWDuke)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2009, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-we-see-bushs-pardons/481798/27 "2009-01-18T23:29:36Z")
> [@BarnOwl](#): > > And do you think he’ll pardon himself? No. There is no plausible scenario in which he would be tried under U.S. federal law for anything he has done as president. The most he has to fear is a fact-finding investigation, and a pardon would not prevent that. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2009, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-we-see-bushs-pardons/481798/28 "2009-01-18T23:45:14Z")
> [@BarnOwl](#): > > But I think you’ll find that it says his pardoning power is absolute. Which means he can pardon himself - except for impeachable situations. > > Nixon VP, Spiro Agnew was nailed for bribe taking while in office. This happened when Nixon was at the height of his Watergate problems. Agnew resigned, and Tricky Dick chose Ford for the job. The pardon followed. Nitpick: Congressional leaders recommended Ford to Nixon. ---
**Author:** ![BarnOwl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e95f7d/32.png) [@BarnOwl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BarnOwl)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2009, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-we-see-bushs-pardons/481798/29 "2009-01-18T23:50:25Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Nitpick: Congressional leaders recommended Ford to Nixon. What is the implication? ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-we-see-bushs-pardons/481798/30 "2009-01-19T00:17:28Z")
According to the New York Times, “In 1973, when Spiro Agnew resigned the vice presidency after a scandal unrelated to Watergate, Mr. Nixon sought advice from senior Congressional leaders about a replacement. The advice was unanimous. ‘We gave Nixon no choice but Ford,’ House Speaker Carl Albert recalled later.” So while Nixon did choose Ford, it was at the suggestion of Congressional leaders. ---
**Author:** ![BarnOwl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e95f7d/32.png) [@BarnOwl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BarnOwl)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-we-see-bushs-pardons/481798/31 "2009-01-19T00:27:40Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > According to the New York Times, “In 1973, when Spiro Agnew resigned the vice presidency after a scandal unrelated to Watergate, Mr. Nixon sought advice from senior Congressional leaders about a replacement. The advice was unanimous. ‘We gave Nixon no choice but Ford,’ House Speaker Carl Albert recalled later.” So while Nixon did choose Ford, it was at the suggestion of Congressional leaders. Okay. But I’d still like to know what this is supposed to mean. That the leaders got a guarantee from Ford to pardon Nixon before Nixon talked to Ford? ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-we-see-bushs-pardons/481798/32 "2009-01-19T00:44:51Z")
No. You suggested in [post 21](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10709893&postcount=21) that Nixon’s appointment of Ford involved an agreement by Ford to pardon Nixon. I’m saying that that this is incorrect, that Ford made no such agreement. ---
**Author:** ![BarnOwl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e95f7d/32.png) [@BarnOwl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BarnOwl)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-we-see-bushs-pardons/481798/33 "2009-01-19T01:01:25Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > No. You suggested in [post 21](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10709893&postcount=21) that Nixon’s appointment of Ford involved an agreement by Ford to pardon Nixon. I’m saying that that this is incorrect, that Ford made no such agreement. How do you know that Ford made no such agreement? The Times story doesn’t seem to suggest it. Just because the leaders gave Nixon one choice, didn’t mean he had to accept it. And do you think Nixon said, “Well that sounds good!. Tell him I accept him as my VP.” Gerald Ford was invented for the saying,“He can’t chew gum and walk at the same time.” Be assured the two talked and Ford promised Nixon a pardon. Nixon was in deep shit, but no one would accuse him of being stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a9a28c/32.png) [@Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oslo_Ostragoth)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-we-see-bushs-pardons/481798/34 "2009-01-19T07:08:18Z")
:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![BarnOwl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e95f7d/32.png) [@BarnOwl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BarnOwl)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-we-see-bushs-pardons/481798/35 "2009-01-19T14:01:11Z")
> [@Oslo\_Ostragoth](#): > > :rolleyes: Would you care to explain? ---
**Author:** ![Baldwin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baldwin/32/7264_2.png) [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-we-see-bushs-pardons/481798/36 "2009-01-19T19:16:07Z")
> [@BarnOwl](#): > > Gerald Ford was invented for the saying,“He can’t chew gum and walk at the same time.” Nonsense. Ford was quite capable. Just didn’t have a chance in 1976, because his administration was seen too much as a continuation of Nixon’s (and a lot of people were upset about the pardon). Less than 24 hours to go. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-we-see-bushs-pardons/481798/37 "2009-01-19T19:29:14Z")
The two border patrol dudes were pardoned in the last half hour or so, I believe. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-we-see-bushs-pardons/481798/38 "2009-01-19T19:33:46Z")
Linky: [Bush commutes sentences of former Border Patrol agents - CNN.com](http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/01/19/bush.commute/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-we-see-bushs-pardons/481798/39 "2009-01-19T19:54:04Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > Linky: [Bush commutes sentences of former Border Patrol agents - CNN.com](http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/01/19/bush.commute/index.html) Sentences commuted. They’ll be released March 20. Not quite a full pardon. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-we-see-bushs-pardons/481798/40 "2009-01-19T20:03:56Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > Sentences commuted. They’ll be released March 20. Not quite a full pardon. Yeah, looks like. The “breaking news” banner was a bit misleading. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-we-see-bushs-pardons/481798.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-we-see-bushs-pardons/481798.md?page=3)