# When will we see fighter UAVs? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 22, 2009, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-we-see-fighter-uavs/497289 "2009-05-22T11:53:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![J-P\_L](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/j-p_l/32/3156_2.png) [@J-P\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/J-P_L)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2009, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-we-see-fighter-uavs/497289/21 "2009-05-23T18:42:09Z")
Here is a [News article from 2007](http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123071575) that confirms my previous statement > [@](#): > > Like the Predator, the Reaper is launched, recovered and maintained at deployed locations, while being remotely operated by pilots and sensor operators at Creech Air Force Base, Nev. That is where the resemblance ends. The MQ-9 has nearly nine times the range, can fly twice as high and carries more munitions. ---
**Author:** ![Kaboodle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8edcca/32.png) [@Kaboodle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaboodle)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2009, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-we-see-fighter-uavs/497289/22 "2009-05-23T20:48:12Z")
[Here](http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/13.06/drones.html?tw=wn_tophead_1) is an article from Wired, June 2005. Part of it mentions a pilot at the end of his training. > [@Wired Magazine](#): > > Sitting in a Humvee, Clark flies the Hunter by using a mouse to point and click pixelated dials and sliders modeled after the ones in a physical cockpit. Alternatively he can just click a route on a map, or program a destination and let the plane figure it out. Clark doesn’t have a throttle, and he can’t see out the front of the plane. The way they are describing piloting the UAV I wouldn’t think that even a five second delay would be significant. ---
**Author:** ![groo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecd19e/32.png) [@groo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/groo)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2009, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-we-see-fighter-uavs/497289/23 "2009-05-23T21:56:58Z")
We’ll see one about two hours after one crashes in a place where there are witnesses. ---
**Author:** ![Pushkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ee59a6/32.png) [@Pushkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pushkin)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2009, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-we-see-fighter-uavs/497289/24 "2009-05-23T22:41:55Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > For good reason. Whenever we make an intelligent machine it goes [beserk](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0382992/). Too techno-phobic to post a [real life](http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/04/11/us_war_robot_rebellion_iraq/) example? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2009, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-we-see-fighter-uavs/497289/25 "2009-05-24T02:19:18Z")
([From a previous thread of mine.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=507443)) Neural Robots Incorporated has made [autonomous helicopters with AA-12 12-gauge machine shotguns.](http://www.engadget.com/2006/03/01/neural-robotics-incorporated-equips-autocopter-with-12-gauge-sho/) Drifting a bit from UAVs, [one of the people who worked at the company that developed Teddy Ruxpin now owns a company called Robotex that makes ground robots carrying the AA-12.](http://zokuga.blogspot.com/2009/02/appalachian-automatic-shotgun-toting.html) One of Robotex’s designs is an armed robot that carries six smaller robots, because until now war wasn’t enough like 1980s arcade games. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2009, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-we-see-fighter-uavs/497289/26 "2009-05-24T04:50:39Z")
The logical extension of UAV’s would be to slave them to piloted aircraft and operate as a swarm. The UAV’s would react to the pilot’s commands and attack what the pilot attacks. Imaging a group of eight which the pilot can task in groups of 2. Group 1 is assigned incoming aircraft, group 2 to a ground assault, group 3 to ground based radar and group 4 to airborn radar. The piloted aircraft (with multiple crew) would exist to eliminate time lag and the UAV’s would act as a buffer zone for the piloted aircraft. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2009, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-we-see-fighter-uavs/497289/27 "2009-05-24T07:00:42Z")
> [@AdmiralCrunch](#): > > I can predict that a conflict with Russia or China will rise to nuclear threats before a shot is fired. And that air to air dogfights won’t happen in the future. Missiles from miles away will decide who has superiority where. Maneuverability will be useful for knocking out ground targets, not other planes. That is what has been predicted since the Eisenhower administration. They were wrong then too. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2009, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-we-see-fighter-uavs/497289/28 "2009-05-24T08:37:04Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The logical extension of UAV’s would be to slave them to piloted aircraft and operate as a swarm. The UAV’s would react to the pilot’s commands and attack what the pilot attacks. Imaging a group of eight which the pilot can task in groups of 2. Group 1 is assigned incoming aircraft, group 2 to a ground assault, group 3 to ground based radar and group 4 to airborn radar. The piloted aircraft (with multiple crew) would exist to eliminate time lag and the UAV’s would act as a buffer zone for the piloted aircraft. [This is _exactly_ what we need to fight the Bydo Empire!](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R-Type) ---
**Author:** ![Jake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jake)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2009, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-we-see-fighter-uavs/497289/29 "2009-05-24T19:47:10Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > There is no problem with having ones with jet engines. Look at the UAV page on wikipedia and you can see existing examples as well as ones in development. Nothing classified. Invention is pushed by need. Right now there is not as much of a need for air to air capability. Development of an effective unmanned fighter would be very expensive. What is more important now is reconnaissance. Long loiter times and a steady platform are more important than speed and manuverability. Makes good sense to me. But if they could stick a bomb, just one, on the aircraft would make sense. ---
**Author:** ![redshift](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bbce88/32.png) [@redshift](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/redshift)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2009, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-we-see-fighter-uavs/497289/30 "2009-05-24T19:54:29Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > [This is _exactly_ what we need to fight the Bydo Empire!](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R-Type) Oh. My. God. WIN. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2009, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-we-see-fighter-uavs/497289/31 "2009-05-24T22:30:09Z")
As I understand it, the real reason development has dragged on fighter and armed UAVs in general is due to most senior Air Force officers being ex-pilots. IIRC, tests showed years ago that armed drones are better in combat than manned fighters, but they’ve resisted anything that would make their former profession less important or obsolete. ---
**Author:** ![HorseloverFat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8e8cbc/32.png) [@HorseloverFat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HorseloverFat)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2009, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-we-see-fighter-uavs/497289/32 "2009-05-25T00:30:32Z")
> [@](#): > > I’d invest a significant amount of my defense budget in developing jamming technology. Thats not really an issue. A modern warzone is a jamming nightmare. Both sides are doing their best to jam communications, radar, etc. This is already a mitigated risk. If youre worried then let me introduce you to my friend the [anti-radiation missile](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-radiation_missile). The jamming needs to come from somewhere and those little guys will find it. Oh, as to who to fight, how about some modern airforces like China, Russia, all of W. Europe, Pakistan, Iran, N Korea, Japan, Canada, etc. Friends today may not be friends tomorrow and China and Russia sure as heck arent crazy enough to start WWIII using nukes. Also, Boeing is working on this stuff, its called the [X-45](http://www.gizmag.com/boeing-to-develop-fighter-sized-uav-based-on-x-45c/11636/). They flew a few prototypes a couple of years ago but they didnt go into production. The one they are working on may go into production soon. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2009, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-we-see-fighter-uavs/497289/33 "2009-05-25T00:31:39Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > As I understand it, the real reason development has dragged on fighter and armed UAVs in general is due to most senior Air Force officers being ex-pilots. IIRC, tests showed years ago that armed drones are better in combat than manned fighters, but they’ve resisted anything that would make their former profession less important or obsolete. I’d like to see the results of those tests…I expect that this isn’t true. How could it be, for reasons already outlined? Granted, dogfighting aircraft is inexorably becoming less relevant, but with the lag time associated with remotely piloted aircraft (which is fine for the slower, prop-powered UAV’s we have now), the lack of human intuition and reflex, etc…I just cannot envision that a jet-powered UAV could perform as well as an F-22 in a dogfight. ---
**Author:** ![HorseloverFat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8e8cbc/32.png) [@HorseloverFat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HorseloverFat)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2009, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-we-see-fighter-uavs/497289/34 "2009-05-25T00:37:56Z")
Why not? Youll have a trained pilot controlling it from the ground. He can use his existing skills but will never have to worry about g-forces or getting killed. Modern militaries dont have dogfights. You launch a missile from over the horizon. The guy with the better equipment will always win. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2009, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-we-see-fighter-uavs/497289/35 "2009-05-25T01:12:49Z")
> [@HorseloverFat](#): > > The guy with the better equipment will always win. That’s been mostly true since the stone age. > [@HorseloverFat](#): > > The guy with the better equipment will always win. Except when he doesn’t win. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2009, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-we-see-fighter-uavs/497289/36 "2009-05-25T01:13:16Z")
> [@HorseloverFat](#): > > Thats not really an issue. A modern warzone is a jamming nightmare. Both sides are doing their best to jam communications, radar, etc. This is already a mitigated risk. If youre worried then let me introduce you to my friend the [anti-radiation missile](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-radiation_missile). The jamming needs to come from somewhere and those little guys will find it. Well, if you need to substantially suppress the EW environment to be able to use fighter UAVs, it’s not as simple as launching a bunch of AARGMs. Many modern air forces are putting very capable DRFM pods on their fighter aircraft. And if we need fighter UAVs to go kill the DRFM equipped enemy fighters so we can operate figher UAVs… well, then, we’ve got ourselves into a feedback loop. > [@](#): > > Also, Boeing is working on this stuff, its called the [X-45](http://www.gizmag.com/boeing-to-develop-fighter-sized-uav-based-on-x-45c/11636/). They flew a few prototypes a couple of years ago but they didnt go into production. The one they are working on may go into production soon. No UCAV is going into production soon, and Northrup’s X-47 is considerably more advanced than Boeing’s entry. Both aircraft are essentially technology demonstrators, not much more. The X-47 is supposed to attempt its first carrier landing in 2011. It will be many more years of development after that before anything is ready for production. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2009, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-we-see-fighter-uavs/497289/37 "2009-05-25T01:17:24Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > [This is _exactly_ what we need to fight the Bydo Empire!](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R-Type) Yep. Who do you think is developing future weapons? 80’s gamer geeks. Look at the [controllers](http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2006/11/uav_cockpit_use/) for weapons in current use.\*\* Openly declaring that the Universal Control System (UCS) derives from standard video-game controllers, the defense contractor said they would combine these consumer electronics with their own decades of experience in command and control systems.\*\* ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2009, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-we-see-fighter-uavs/497289/38 "2009-05-25T02:17:27Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > Granted, dogfighting aircraft is inexorably becoming less relevant, but with the lag time associated with remotely piloted aircraft (which is fine for the slower, prop-powered UAV’s we have now), the lack of human intuition and reflex, etc…I just cannot envision that a jet-powered UAV could perform as well as an F-22 in a dogfight. A remote piloted craft has just as much intution as one piloted by a guy in a cockpit, the reaction time is the same if the controller is close enough that lightspeed doesn’t impose significant delay, and the drone is much more agile because it doesn’t have a flimsy human on board. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2009, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-we-see-fighter-uavs/497289/39 "2009-05-25T02:58:20Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > A remote piloted craft has just as much intution as one piloted by a guy in a cockpit, the reaction time is the same if the controller is close enough that lightspeed doesn’t impose significant delay, and the drone is much more agile because it doesn’t have a flimsy human on board. What are the limits structurally of a typical modern warplane versus the limits of the human body? Are they even close? And I still wonder at the reaction time issue. A pilot of a very modern fighter plane would have instant control over his aircraft, UAV’s would have a lot to prove in this area, considered the ones we use now are piloted from the USA and are flying over Afghanistan. And are prop planes, which I suspect allow for significant lag time between controller and vehicle. ---
**Author:** ![HorseloverFat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8e8cbc/32.png) [@HorseloverFat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HorseloverFat)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2009, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-we-see-fighter-uavs/497289/40 "2009-05-25T03:33:59Z")
> [@](#): > > What are the limits structurally of a typical modern warplane versus the limits of the human body? Are they even close? Thats a chicken and the egg problem. Fighters are designed for human use. Remove the human and engineers will be free to do a lot more with them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-we-see-fighter-uavs/497289.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-we-see-fighter-uavs/497289.md?page=3)