# When will white, christian moderates speak up? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 24, 2015, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-white-christian-moderates-speak-up/715895 "2015-03-24T21:10:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![yanceylebeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yanceylebeef/32/12290_2.png) [@yanceylebeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yanceylebeef)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2015, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-white-christian-moderates-speak-up/715895/1 "2015-03-24T21:10:26Z")
The head of the Robertson clan [opened his word](http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/phil-robertson-rape-murder-atheists) hole again. When will moderate Christians speak up and denounce this kind of rhetoric as the dangerous violence inciting speech that it is? By staying silent, you are giving implicit approval to the psychopathic ramblings of a man not encumbered by insight or functioning brain cells. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2015, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-white-christian-moderates-speak-up/715895/2 "2015-03-24T21:38:44Z")
And someone should get the word out that you don’t need God to know right from wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2015, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-white-christian-moderates-speak-up/715895/3 "2015-03-24T21:41:44Z")
They are sitting in the back of the room, saying to one another “We know he’s not speaking for us _real_ Christians, and that is what’s really important!” ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2015, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-white-christian-moderates-speak-up/715895/4 "2015-03-24T21:52:21Z")
I guess if the fear of God is what’s keeping Phil Robertson from raping and murdering children, we should all be glad he has that fear and hope he keeps it. Myself, I’ve never needed God to tell me rape and murder is wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2015, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-white-christian-moderates-speak-up/715895/5 "2015-03-24T22:41:33Z")
In case this isn’t a parody of the whole, “When will the moderate Muslims speak up?”, they do it all the time. Most of the time though, they’re just not as interesting as the fundies, so the media doesn’t really focus on that. (I mean, let’s face it: the crazies are more fun to hear about) ---
**Author:** ![GrumpyBunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc8723/32.png) [@GrumpyBunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrumpyBunny)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2015, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-white-christian-moderates-speak-up/715895/6 "2015-03-24T22:49:19Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > They are sitting in the back of the room, saying to one another “We know he’s not speaking for us _real_ Christians, and that is what’s really important!” Too bad they aren’t standing up and telling him to shut his bigoted, ignorant piehole. ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2015, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-white-christian-moderates-speak-up/715895/7 "2015-03-24T22:52:46Z")
Violence begets violence… Is he that confused? Since someone is supernatural free, that person isn’t expected to say, “Well, a large and bearded man will judge him soon enough!” The murder he describes will leave physical evidence all over the place and the murders will be easily prosecuted, sentenced and possibly killed. What does his example try to prove? But as far as the OP’s question, this is exactly what I want to see in the news. Celebrities and politicians constantly re-interpreting re-imagining their “faith” into views which only they see fit. Death to gays, death to atheists, abortion doctors-- religion is so fucking violent, eh? These statements from stupid, yet popular people, will eventually result in the end of religion. The war on Christmas and war of religion is only fueled by these crackpots and helping people to think logically, ie, AWAY from religion. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2015, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-white-christian-moderates-speak-up/715895/8 "2015-03-24T23:00:25Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > In case this isn’t a parody of the whole, “When will the moderate Muslims speak up?”, they do it all the time. Most of the time though, they’re just not as interesting as the fundies, so the media doesn’t really focus on that. (I mean, let’s face it: the crazies are more fun to hear about) They do? How much effort do they put into speaking outside of their comfort zone? Who are the biggest names in Moderate Christianity, and what press releases have they offered recently to counter crap like this? What network shows have they requested to be on, and been refused? If they _had_ asked to be on the same shows as many of the far right Christians have been on and _were_ refused equal time with the lunatic Christian fringe, how much of a fuss did they make about it? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2015, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-white-christian-moderates-speak-up/715895/9 "2015-03-24T23:02:51Z")
> [@Locrian](#): > > But as far as the OP’s question, this is exactly what I want to see in the news. Celebrities and politicians constantly re-interpreting re-imagining their “faith” into views which only they see fit. Death to gays, death to atheists, abortion doctors-- religion is so fucking violent, eh? > > These statements from stupid, yet popular people, will eventually result in the end of religion. The war on Christmas and war of religion is only fueled by these crackpots and helping people to think logically, ie, AWAY from religion. Bullshit! If there was a smidgen of truth to this, religion would have died out years ago. Crap like this promotes and incites-it doesn’t drive away. ---
**Author:** ![Gerald\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Gerald\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gerald_II)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2015, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-white-christian-moderates-speak-up/715895/10 "2015-03-24T23:18:17Z")
Didn’t a significant amount of Christians criticize Sarah Palin for saying the US “baptizes terrorists” by water boarding them? I can’t see why a Christian would pay to hear this guy talk about Christianity. He’s a character on a reality TV show. I can imagine if he had some really intelligent ideas and was a very thoughtful speaker but he’s not. He comes across as crass and simple minded. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2015, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-white-christian-moderates-speak-up/715895/11 "2015-03-24T23:22:06Z")
What should we be saying? I hereby denounce any person who would advocate rape and murder under any pretense, especially in the name of God. Will that suffice, or do we have to line up one by one and do Hands Across America before you accept that this guy speaks only for himself? ---
**Author:** ![Gerald\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Gerald\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gerald_II)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2015, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-white-christian-moderates-speak-up/715895/12 "2015-03-24T23:22:32Z")
Wait, why is it that white Christians need to speak up? What about non-white Christians? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2015, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-white-christian-moderates-speak-up/715895/13 "2015-03-24T23:26:41Z")
> [@yanceylebeef](#): > > The head of the Robertson clan [opened his word](http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/phil-robertson-rape-murder-atheists) hole again. > > When will moderate Christians speak up and denounce this kind of rhetoric as the dangerous violence inciting speech that it is? By staying silent, you are giving implicit approval to the psychopathic ramblings of a man not encumbered by insight or functioning brain cells. I’m sorry, but I don’t read this as violence-inciting speech at all, so I disagree with your premise. Unless, of course, you meant the violence done to fallacy-free argument, in which case I concede the point. Robertson’s diatribe, as I read it, was intended to illustrate his view that atheists lack any standard for right and wrong. In his story, a hypothetical atheist family is the victim of a brutal assault by (presumably) equally atheist criminals, who point out that because there is no right or wrong, the victims cannot claim their injuries are wrong. He concludes by opining that the beleaguered atheist would come to the realization that what happened was not merely undesirable, but morally wrong, which Robertson seems to regard as a major concession from an atheist. Robertson’s argument is a strawman. He imputes to atheists a claim that there is no such thing as right and wrong and thus atheists cannot rely upon right and wrong in their own assessments of the world. This is not an accurate statement of the atheist position: he creates a phony, strawman atheist position and then defeats it, inviting the listener to therefore conclude he has defeated the argument for atheism. But rebutting Robertson’s claim is correctly done as I have just done. The OP responds to Robertson’s strawman with an opposing strawman – certainly a tactic that has some justice, but still not valid even if Greedo shot first. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2015, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-white-christian-moderates-speak-up/715895/14 "2015-03-24T23:29:30Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > What should we be saying? > > I hereby denounce any person who would advocate rape and murder under any pretense, especially in the name of God. > > Will that suffice, or do we have to line up one by one and do Hands Across America before you accept that this guy speaks only for himself? Dang, it’s been more than an HOUR since you spoke up, **Doors**! WHY, oh WHY, hasn’t word of your denunciation been splashed all over the wire services? > [@Bricker](#): > > I’m sorry, but I don’t read this as violence-inciting speech at all, so I disagree with your premise. > > Unless, of course, you meant the violence done to fallacy-free argument, in which case I concede the point. Robertson’s diatribe, as I read it, was intended to illustrate his view that atheists lack any standard for right and wrong. In his story, a hypothetical atheist family is the victim of a brutal assault by (presumably) equally atheist criminals, who point out that because there is no right or wrong, the victims cannot claim their injuries are wrong. He concludes by opining that the beleaguered atheist would come to the realization that what happened was not merely undesirable, but morally wrong, which Robertson seems to regard as a major concession from an atheist. > > Robertson’s argument is a strawman. He imputes to atheists a claim that there is no such thing as right and wrong and thus atheists cannot rely upon right and wrong in their own assessments of the world. This is not an accurate statement of the atheist position: he creates a phony, strawman atheist position and then defeats it, inviting the listener to therefore conclude he has defeated the argument for atheism. Not only that, he never tells us what he’s betting on, or what the stakes are supposed to be. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2015, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-white-christian-moderates-speak-up/715895/15 "2015-03-24T23:37:13Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > What should we be saying? > > I hereby denounce any person who would advocate rape and murder under any pretense, especially in the name of God. > > Will that suffice, or do we have to line up one by one and do Hands Across America before you accept that this guy speaks only for himself? If you believe that this man speaks only for himself, then you are ignoring the fact that he said this at a prayer breakfast, and that it was rebroadcast by the Christian radio program Tru News. The Vero Beach prayer breakfast _is_ an event that is followed by many-[on this page you can see a list of some of their former speakers.](http://verobeachprayerbreakfast.homestead.com/) What should you be saying? You should be saying something like, “Why have us Good And Moderate Christians let those assholes have the megaphone for so long? They’re making us look like idiots.” ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2015, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-white-christian-moderates-speak-up/715895/16 "2015-03-24T23:38:43Z")
I suppose the difference is that asking moderate Christians to denounce _hypothetical_ violence is not quite the same as asking moderate Muslims to denounce an endless stream of _actual_ violence. Though, as an agnostic white male, I denounce Robertson’s diatribe as crude, ill-conceived, and wholly ineffective at getting its point across. Satisfied? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2015, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-white-christian-moderates-speak-up/715895/17 "2015-03-24T23:44:05Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I’m sorry, but I don’t read this as violence-inciting speech at all, so I disagree with your premise. > > Unless, of course, you meant the violence done to fallacy-free argument, in which case I concede the point. Robertson’s diatribe, as I read it, was intended to illustrate his view that atheists lack any standard for right and wrong. In his story, a hypothetical atheist family is the victim of a brutal assault by (presumably) equally atheist criminals, who point out that because there is no right or wrong, the victims cannot claim their injuries are wrong. He concludes by opining that the beleaguered atheist would come to the realization that what happened was not merely undesirable, but morally wrong, which Robertson seems to regard as a major concession from an atheist. > > Robertson’s argument is a strawman. He imputes to atheists a claim that there is no such thing as right and wrong and thus atheists cannot rely upon right and wrong in their own assessments of the world. This is not an accurate statement of the atheist position: he creates a phony, strawman atheist position and then defeats it, inviting the listener to therefore conclude he has defeated the argument for atheism. > > But rebutting Robertson’s claim is correctly done as I have just done. The OP responds to Robertson’s strawman with an opposing strawman – certainly a tactic that has some justice, but still not valid even if Greedo shot first. We _know_ what he says is full of shit. :smack: The point is, he(and so many others) are rabble-rousing using shit like this via the national airwaves and major Christian press, and you seem to think the answer is to point out that he is wrong…here. Again I ask: Who are the major Moderate Christian Voices out there that could be countering crap like this out on the public airwaves? ---
**Author:** ![Octarine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/22d042/32.png) [@Octarine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Octarine)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2015, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-white-christian-moderates-speak-up/715895/18 "2015-03-24T23:54:32Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-white-christian-moderates-speak-up/715895/19 "2015-03-25T00:07:18Z")
Robertson deserves mockery and ridicule, if anything. Denunciation gives him more stature than he’s earned. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-white-christian-moderates-speak-up/715895/20 "2015-03-25T00:13:15Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I’m sorry, but I don’t read this as violence-inciting speech at all, so I disagree with your premise. I read it, too, and I don’t see an incitement to violence either. I can guarantee you that at least half the people in this thread did not bother to read the article. And besides doing violence to fallacy free arguments, he did butcher the English language while he was at it. The best response to his silliness is to ignore him. He’s a Reality TV attention whore. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-white-christian-moderates-speak-up/715895.md?page=2)