# When will white, christian moderates speak up? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 24, 2015, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-white-christian-moderates-speak-up/715895 "2015-03-24T21:10:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2015, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-white-christian-moderates-speak-up/715895/221 "2015-03-27T16:51:23Z")
This thread reminds me of ones about racism, where posters all agree they aren’t personally racist so there isn’t a problem and even if there is they aren’t contributing to it in any way. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2015, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-white-christian-moderates-speak-up/715895/222 "2015-03-27T16:54:40Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > He is making the case that mainstream Christians either agree with nutty fringe sentiment, or are complacent and therefore guilty of contributing to it’s consequences. And that would be called a false dichotomy. Person A is responsible for the consequences of Person A’s blathering. No one is obliged to renounce it. In fact, no one is obligated to even be aware of it (which probably covers the vast majority of Americans already). And, he has no way of knowing whether or not said renouncing has, in fact, occurred. If someone decides to renounce said blathering, that someone is not obligated to renounce it in a manner approved by any poster on this MB. My God (whom I don’t believe in) what a pile of horse shit is being shoveled in this thread. If Baby Jesus were real, he’d be crying now. Not to mention that there isn’t any fucking incitement to violence in what the idiot said in the first place. I get that this thread is about mocking right wingers who are always calling on Moos-lims to renounce other Moos-lim lunatics, but some of you guys are doing an amazing job of trying to validate those right wing nut cases. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2015, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-white-christian-moderates-speak-up/715895/223 "2015-03-27T17:54:19Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > He is making the case that mainstream Christians either agree with nutty fringe sentiment, or are complacent and therefore guilty of contributing to it’s consequences. > > Which seems fair, and you all seem to be dodging. So go ahead and say yet again \*you \*don’t personally agree with Robertson. He may be trying to make such a case, and you may think it’s fair, but I’m not buying what you, or he, is trying sell. If you wish to whine about Robertson, GO RIGHT AHEAD - NOBODY IS STOPPING YOU. If you’re demanding that I must also whine about Robertson, convince me that you are someone I should obey, offer me money, or piss off. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2015, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-white-christian-moderates-speak-up/715895/224 "2015-03-27T18:05:50Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > He may be trying to make such a case, and you may think it’s fair, but I’m not buying what you, or he, is trying sell. > > If you wish to whine about Robertson, GO RIGHT AHEAD - NOBODY IS STOPPING YOU. > > If you’re demanding that I must also whine about Robertson, convince me that you are someone I should obey, offer me money, or piss off. And that is what a privledged position allows you to do. I am a white male, I don’t have to care about sexism or racism unless someone offers me money to care. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2015, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-white-christian-moderates-speak-up/715895/225 "2015-03-27T18:08:11Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > He may be trying to make such a case, and you may think it’s fair, but I’m not buying what you, or he, is trying sell. > > If you wish to whine about Robertson, GO RIGHT AHEAD - NOBODY IS STOPPING YOU. > > If you’re demanding that I must also whine about Robertson, convince me that you are someone I should obey, offer me money, or piss off. Since this thread doesn’t have your name on it, and you’ve already said you have no plans to do anything, why haven’t _you_ pissed off already? Unless you’re one of those moderate Christian _leaders_ I’ve been referring to, I don’t really care about your oft-repeated opinion on the matter anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2015, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-white-christian-moderates-speak-up/715895/226 "2015-03-27T18:29:10Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > And that would be called a false dichotomy. Person A is responsible for the consequences of Person A’s blathering. No one is obliged to renounce it. In fact, no one is obligated to even be aware of it (which probably covers the vast majority of Americans already). And, he has no way of knowing whether or not said renouncing has, in fact, occurred. If someone decides to renounce said blathering, that someone is not obligated to renounce it in a manner approved by any poster on this MB. > > My God (whom I don’t believe in) what a pile of horse shit is being shoveled in this thread. If Baby Jesus were real, he’d be crying now. > > Not to mention that there isn’t any fucking incitement to violence in what the idiot said in the first place. I get that this thread is about mocking right wingers who are always calling on Moos-lims to renounce other Moos-lim lunatics, but some of you guys are doing an amazing job of trying to validate those right wing nut cases. Sports allows the opportunity for tribalism without consequence. I feel compelled to influence other groups I belong too because in my participation they are acting for me. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2015, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-white-christian-moderates-speak-up/715895/227 "2015-03-27T18:31:57Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Since this thread doesn’t have your name on it, and you’ve already said you have no plans to do anything, why haven’t _you_ pissed off already? Unless you’re one of those moderate Christian _leaders_ I’ve been referring to, I don’t really care about your oft-repeated opinion on the matter anymore. Of the three choices I offered, I would prefer that you offered me money. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2015, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-white-christian-moderates-speak-up/715895/228 "2015-03-27T18:36:38Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > And that is what a privledged position allows you to do. I am a white male, I don’t have to care about sexism or racism unless someone offers me money to care. Or convinces me that you are someone I should obey. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2015, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-white-christian-moderates-speak-up/715895/229 "2015-03-27T18:38:03Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Of the three choices I offered, I would prefer that you offered me money. 😃 And sometimes life offers you choices you never knew you had. Would you like a few more? ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2015, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-white-christian-moderates-speak-up/715895/230 "2015-03-27T18:41:10Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > And sometimes life offers you choices you never knew you had. > Would you like a few more? More money would be nice. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2015, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-white-christian-moderates-speak-up/715895/231 "2015-03-27T20:37:05Z")
My opinion, which no one will care about, is that Phil Robertson is a professional jerk. Why anyone would take him as some kind of spokesman or figurehead is beyond me. He is a provocateur, he wraps it in his aw-shucks Christianspeak, and people either eat it up like it is red meat or get… provoked. Geez, how many guys like this have to parade through society before we all figure it out? Denunciations are one of the things provocateurs are fishing/trolling for. Now, this is the first I heard of the bigoted law in Indiana. Now THAT I find far more offensive than the rantings of some bearded fool. What the hell is wrong with Indiana, that they would legalize discrimination in the name of religion? I’m not going to get all pissy and rant away about it though. I hereby boycott Indiana until this law is repealed, and I call on everyone who isn’t an asshole to do the same. ---
**Author:** ![BoBettie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4af34b/32.png) [@BoBettie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BoBettie)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2015, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-white-christian-moderates-speak-up/715895/232 "2015-03-27T22:08:44Z")
> [@coffeecat](#): > > I really don’t give a shit if someone believes in God, just so they believe in _something_ higher than covering their own ass and looking out for number one. I do, however, consider these matters opinions, over which reasonable people can differ. When someone says their opinion is fact, and if I disagree I’m just too stupid or irrational to accept reality, I get irritated. I get irritated whether the opinion is atheism, a particular religion, or pro-life. I have no idea how most religious believers feel about this: the subject doesn’t come up much, and I haven’t done a survey. Is this a joke? Believe in something “higher” than cover their own ass and looking out for number one? I am an atheist and I do the “works of the Lord” just like my religious sister does- I contribute to charity, I knit shawls for the ill, I donate to the food bank, blah blah blah blah. I don’t do it because some higher power directs me to, I do it because it’s the right thing to do by my OWN reckoning. I don’t need anyone and their imaginary god telling me how to live. It’s ridiculous. And I’m sorry, but if your religion teaches nonsensical things like walking on water, resurrection, etc. you can keep it to yourself. If you accept it, that’s fine but I sure as hell don’t want to hear about it in any way that affects MY life, like in the government. Go away with that nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2015, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-white-christian-moderates-speak-up/715895/233 "2015-03-27T22:15:52Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > He is making the case that mainstream Christians either agree with nutty fringe sentiment, or are complacent and therefore guilty of contributing to it’s consequences. > > Which seems fair, and you all seem to be dodging. So go ahead and say yet again \*you \*don’t personally agree with Robertson. **Robertson does not represent me and I do not believe that he is following the teachings of Christ.** There - that is the statement of one Ordained Deacon in the Presbyterian Church. I have said it here, I have said it on Facebook (got me a few unfollows, whatever). I have said it whenever anyone brings him up. The opinions and public statements of other members of my congregation have already been supplied above. I have also provided links to the Disciples of Christ statements and actions regarding Indiana, and I am following the Presbyterian Church USA actions as well. We are searching for a way to either move a huge 5000+ youth event already booked to take place at the University of Indiana or to ensure that none of our money goes towards any organization that chooses to discriminate. So stating that we either agree or are complacent is a complete fallacy. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2015, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-white-christian-moderates-speak-up/715895/234 "2015-03-27T22:19:57Z")
How about you atheists being anti vaccine? After all, one of your most famous members (Bill Maher) is anti-vax. If you aren’t calling him out for that, and stating that REAL atheists understand the science of vaccinations - you must be afraid to correct him or you really agree with him. What? Bill Maher doesn’t speak for atheists? Guess what - Robertson doesn’t speak for me. He is not even CLOSE to a member of my church. I have more in common with the current Pope than I do with Robertson’s branch of Christianity - and I belong to a Reformation church. ---
**Author:** ![coffeecat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coffeecat/32/3405_2.png) [@coffeecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coffeecat)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2015, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-white-christian-moderates-speak-up/715895/235 "2015-03-27T22:43:36Z")
> [@BoBettie](#): > > Is this a joke? Believe in something “higher” than cover their own ass and looking out for number one? I am an atheist and I do the “works of the Lord” just like my religious sister does- I contribute to charity, I knit shawls for the ill, I donate to the food bank, blah blah blah blah. I don’t do it because some higher power directs me to, I do it because it’s the right thing to do by my OWN reckoning. > > I don’t need anyone and their imaginary god telling me how to live. It’s ridiculous. And I’m sorry, but if your religion teaches nonsensical things like walking on water, resurrection, etc. you can keep it to yourself. If you accept it, that’s fine but I sure as hell don’t want to hear about it in any way that affects MY life, like in the government. Go away with that nonsense. Whoa, settle down. A personal code of ethics qualifies as “something higher.” I’m not trying to exclude atheists; I’m trying to exclude sociopaths. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2015, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-white-christian-moderates-speak-up/715895/236 "2015-03-27T22:51:27Z")
I don’t know if I am “you atheists”, but anti vax isn’t a good example. The kind of pushback people are asking for against Roberson is happening against the anti-vaxers, in the form of TV specials and the like. There is a fairly high-profile media campaign against the anti-vaxers. Not that I much care how people do or don’t respond to Roberston- I don’t happen to believe he is relevant, in contrast to vaccination. As long as no one sneaks up and whacks him in the head with an ax for either religious or atheist motives, I’m cool. Ps. Anyone remember Jesus’ parable of the atheist family and the raping murderer who kills them all except for the father, whose manhood he chops off and dangles before the bound man’s eyes? Lol ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2015, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-white-christian-moderates-speak-up/715895/237 "2015-03-28T02:03:19Z")
> [@Algher](#): > > **Robertson does not represent me and I do not believe that he is following the teachings of Christ.** > > There - that is the statement of one Ordained Deacon in the Presbyterian Church. I have said it here, I have said it on Facebook (got me a few unfollows, whatever). I have said it whenever anyone brings him up. > > The opinions and public statements of other members of my congregation have already been supplied above. > > I have also provided links to the Disciples of Christ statements and actions regarding Indiana, and I am following the Presbyterian Church USA actions as well. We are searching for a way to either move a huge 5000+ youth event already booked to take place at the University of Indiana or to ensure that none of our money goes towards any organization that chooses to discriminate. > > So stating that we either agree or are complacent is a complete fallacy. Ok, kudos. You are not complacent, you have done everything I would expect. I applaud your progressive and proactive agenda. However, your deeds and the few around you are not representative of the Christian faithful in America. You can believe it should be. I would agree. But it does not, and so I am baffled by your use of the word ‘we’, certainly in reference to proving my argument a ‘complete fallacy’. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2015, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-white-christian-moderates-speak-up/715895/238 "2015-03-28T02:12:43Z")
Your fallacy was in only providing two possible checkboxes - complacent, or agreement. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2015, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-white-christian-moderates-speak-up/715895/239 "2015-03-28T02:19:30Z")
> [@Algher](#): > > Your fallacy was in only providing two possible checkboxes - complacent, or agreement. That moronic hick is a fool, we agree on that. That fools face no consequence for spouting fool things on popular Christian television leads me to only those two checkboxes. The fact you have your shit together and agree with the first sentence but not the second is strange. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2015, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-white-christian-moderates-speak-up/715895/240 "2015-03-28T02:22:28Z")
Radio, whatever. It wasn’t an interview, but that makes airing it all the worse. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-white-christian-moderates-speak-up/715895.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-white-christian-moderates-speak-up/715895.md?page=13)