# When will white, christian moderates speak up? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 24, 2015, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-white-christian-moderates-speak-up/715895 "2015-03-24T21:10:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-white-christian-moderates-speak-up/715895/61 "2015-03-25T06:50:51Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > I consider myself a religious person in that I believe in God, or at least, a god, and I never thought that way… You’re full of fucking shit. I think you needed a longer interlude between those two sentences. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-white-christian-moderates-speak-up/715895/62 "2015-03-25T12:19:02Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > You’re making that sound a lot more innocuous than it is. [Here is some discussion that covers that incident somewhat](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=709496). Rebecca “Not wanting to hear about [my brand of] feminism is worse than rape threats” Watson is a continual shit-stirrer that tries to find new ways that she can be oppressed even if she has to make them up. There are already groups who are united by a premise and atheism who want to make the world a better place like secular humanism. Atheism+ is an attempt to hijack atheist and skeptical movement to promote an agenda of people who are professional victims who say “rape culture” “patriarchy” and “trigger warning” roughly 90 times a day. And I’m not talking about feminism - I would suspect the activist atheist community is overwhelmingly in favor of gender egalitarianism. This shit is the epitome of first world problems, a creation of all sorts of imagined slights and oppressions because their identity relies on being a perpetual victim. She uses the notoriety she’s earned in the community to push divisive, alienating shit that pisses people off and has nothing to do with the movement. She creates all sorts of discord and divides among what’s already a marginalized group. They may exaggerate to some degree but I agree with their complaints at a basic level. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-white-christian-moderates-speak-up/715895/63 "2015-03-25T12:21:48Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Oh, wow, some “religious person” who vaguely maybe sort of maybe believed in some sort of god once doesn’t hate atheists like devout religious people do. I guess countless polls and studies that show us things like [atheists are trusted at the same level as rapists](http://atheism.about.com/od/aboutatheism/p/atheism101.htm) or [that they face more electoral discrimination than any other ethnic or religious group as well as groups defined by character flaws such as those who have been caugh having an affair](http://www.gallup.com/poll/155285/atheists-muslims-bias-presidential-candidates.aspx), [that they are systematically discriminated against around the world](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discrimination_against_atheists) or are the group that parents would [least like their kids to marry.](http://atheism.about.com/od/atheistbigotryprejudice/a/AtheitsHated.htm) > > No, all of the hatred, discrimination, children disowned by their parents, harassment, negative judgments, assumptions of immorality - all of those are irrelevant next to the opinions of someone who kinda maybe thought god might exist in some form once, therefore none of that exists. Huh, who would have thought that people wouldn’t like a bunch of dickbags. See, here’s the thing: it’s not even like racism or sexism or any other -ism. You don’t wear atheism externally, nobody will ever know whether or not you believe in God, and honestly, just like in this case, nobody cares. But, like the person we’re talking about in this thread, the only atheists people encounter are loud and obnoxious, who make it a point of pride to skewer other people’s beliefs. But they’re the only ones doing the talking. They’re digging the hole for you to climb out of. The parallels to this Robertson fellow are uncanny. So, here’s what you need to say: “Why have us Good And Moderate Atheists let those assholes have the megaphone for so long? They’re making us look like idiots.” If you don’t, loudly and publicly, well, I can only surmise it’s because you’re not a good atheist or something. I still haven’t figured out why I’m a bad person for not yelling into the wind over this Robertson guy and his ilk, so I certainly won’t be able to figure out why it might work for you. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-white-christian-moderates-speak-up/715895/64 "2015-03-25T12:41:31Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > They may exaggerate to some degree but I agree with their complaints at a basic level. I agree, and I have nearly the opposite impression of Watson from **SenorBeef** ’s post. From what I’ve seen and read, she posts reasonable opinions, is often attacked unreasonably with extreme vitriol, and responds to these attacks with vitriol and disdain of her own. It really was reasonable for her to suggest that guys shouldn’t make invitations that can be reasonably interpreted as sexual propositions to non-intimate-friend women in elevators late at night. It was unreasonable for her to be attacked for this. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-white-christian-moderates-speak-up/715895/65 "2015-03-25T12:49:51Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I agree, and I have nearly the opposite impression of Watson from **SenorBeef** ’s post. From what I’ve seen and read, she posts reasonable opinions, is often attacked unreasonably with extreme vitriol, and responds to these attacks with vitriol and disdain of her own. > > It really was reasonable for her to suggest that guys shouldn’t make invitations that can be reasonably interpreted as sexual propositions to non-intimate-friend women in elevators late at night. It was unreasonable for her to be attacked for this. Exactly. If she was being spiteful she would of released his identity. (But she didn’t) ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-white-christian-moderates-speak-up/715895/66 "2015-03-25T13:03:06Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > It’s interesting, though, that religious people still fail to understand atheists. Our ideology is actually generally quite simple. We don’t believe in a mythology that has no evidence to support it. That’s it. That’s part of Mr. Robertson’s point - yes, you do believe in a mythology that has no evidence to support it - namely, the mythology that there is there is such a thing as a demonstrable moral standard. There is, in other words, no objective evidence that rape and murder are “wrong”. It is purely subjective - an axiom that has to be accepted on faith, just like you say theists accept the reality of God. You “know” that rape and murder are wrong in the same way that theists “know” of the reality of God. You take it on faith. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-white-christian-moderates-speak-up/715895/67 "2015-03-25T13:06:52Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > That’s part of Mr. Robertson’s point - yes, you do believe in a mythology that has no evidence to support it - namely, the mythology that there is there is such a thing as a demonstrable moral standard. > > There is, in other words, no objective evidence that rape and murder are “wrong”. It is purely subjective - an axiom that has to be accepted on faith, just like you say theists accept the reality of God. You “know” that rape and murder are wrong in the same way that theists “know” of the reality of God. You take it on faith. > > Regards, > Shodan Actually, evolution supplies us with a conscience and the desire to help other people. People who have no conscience are defined as sociopaths. So your assertion that we take morality on faith is not true. ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-white-christian-moderates-speak-up/715895/68 "2015-03-25T13:07:15Z")
I’d like to introduce the OP to [The Christian Left](http://www.thechristianleft.org/). From [facebook](https://www.facebook.com/TheChristianLeft?fref=nf): [QUOTE=the Christian Left] OK, you know how conservatives and Republicans are always obsessively attacking homosexuals? This week we’ve had two high-profile conservatives (Phil Robertson and Ben Carson) compare liberals and President Obama to Nazis and Nazi Germany. Read the attached article and then you decide which group acts more like Nazis. [/quote] They’re talking and commenting every day. If big media organisations don’t give them a big enough platform that as many people see them as Duck Dynasty … well, not their fault. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-white-christian-moderates-speak-up/715895/69 "2015-03-25T13:09:09Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > That’s part of Mr. Robertson’s point - yes, you do believe in a mythology that has no evidence to support it - namely, the mythology that there is there is such a thing as a demonstrable moral standard. > > There is, in other words, no objective evidence that rape and murder are “wrong”. It is purely subjective - an axiom that has to be accepted on faith, just like you say theists accept the reality of God. You “know” that rape and murder are wrong in the same way that theists “know” of the reality of God. You take it on faith. > > Regards, > Shodan It’s not faith, or it doesn’t have to be – it can just be a different kind of decision. I choose to act with a certain moral code – you also do. Your choice may be based on faith in God, and/or fear of divine punishment, but that doesn’t make it any less of a decision than mine. No faith is necessary. And I see no evidence that those without faith or religion are any less likely to choose to act within a moral code in which rape and murder are wrong. ---
**Author:** ![irae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/f0a364/32.png) [@irae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/irae)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-white-christian-moderates-speak-up/715895/70 "2015-03-25T13:22:29Z")
Is it bad that I get a warm feeling inside every time I consider that “conservatives’” love for the highly authentic, bearded Robertson clan is based on a clever repackaging of a bunch of Yuppies? > **[New photo reveals Duck Dynasty stars before the beards](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2465571/Duck-Dynasty-stars-went-beards-fame.html)** > > They were the bearded stars that no one saw coming. Just over a year ago, few people outside the hunting industry had ever heard of duck call creators the Robertsons but now the family, and their show, is the most popular on television. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-white-christian-moderates-speak-up/715895/71 "2015-03-25T14:21:32Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > It’s not faith, or it doesn’t have to be – it can just be a different kind of decision. I choose to act with a certain moral code – you also do. Your choice may be based on faith in God, and/or fear of divine punishment, but that doesn’t make it any less of a decision than mine. It is the same kind of decision in both cases, because both are a decision to accept an unverifiable axiom. Therefore it makes no sense to condemn the one and accept the other, which was Mr. Robertson’s point, more or less. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-white-christian-moderates-speak-up/715895/72 "2015-03-25T14:29:48Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > It is the same kind of decision in both cases, because both are a decision to accept an unverifiable axiom. Therefore it makes no sense to condemn the one and accept the other, which was Mr. Robertson’s point, more or less. You got that Mr. Robertson’s point was that an atheist’s morals are just as valid as those of a Christian? I don’t think that you are that stupid, and I would hope that you don’t think that _we_ are that stupid. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-white-christian-moderates-speak-up/715895/73 "2015-03-25T14:36:53Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > It is the same kind of decision in both cases, because both are a decision to accept an unverifiable axiom. Not necessarily. I haven’t accepted “an unverifiable axiom” – I choose to behave in a way because I think that works best for me and the rest of society. > [@](#): > > Therefore it makes no sense to condemn the one and accept the other, which was Mr. Robertson’s point, more or less. It certainly seemed to me that Robertson was condemning one of them. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-white-christian-moderates-speak-up/715895/74 "2015-03-25T14:37:47Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > Huh, who would have thought that people wouldn’t like a bunch of dickbags. > > See, here’s the thing: it’s not even like racism or sexism or any other -ism. You don’t wear atheism externally, nobody will ever know whether or not you believe in God, and honestly, just like in this case, nobody cares. But, like the person we’re talking about in this thread, the only atheists people encounter are loud and obnoxious, who make it a point of pride to skewer other people’s beliefs. But they’re the only ones doing the talking. They’re digging the hole for you to climb out of. > > The parallels to this Robertson fellow are uncanny. So, here’s what you need to say: > > “Why have us Good And Moderate Atheists let those assholes have the megaphone for so long? They’re making us look like idiots.” > > If you don’t, loudly and publicly, well, I can only surmise it’s because you’re not a good atheist or something. I still haven’t figured out why I’m a bad person for not yelling into the wind over this Robertson guy and his ilk, so I certainly won’t be able to figure out why it might work for you. Atheists that speak out are dickbags, _and_ it’s the atheist’s job to speak out against crap like this. Hypocrisy much? ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-white-christian-moderates-speak-up/715895/75 "2015-03-25T14:56:28Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > That’s part of Mr. Robertson’s point - yes, you do believe in a mythology that has no evidence to support it - namely, the mythology that there is there is such a thing as a demonstrable moral standard. > > There is, in other words, no objective evidence that rape and murder are “wrong”. It is purely subjective - an axiom that has to be accepted on faith, just like you say theists accept the reality of God. You “know” that rape and murder are wrong in the same way that theists “know” of the reality of God. You take it on faith. > > Regards, > Shodan Say what? There is a demonstrable moral standard and it is encapsulated by the Golden Rule. Murder and rape are wrong because I would not enjoy them happening to me. I also would not like to be robbed or have my wife cheat on me. Nor would I like it if someone was spreading rumors about me. Thus I do not do these acts myself. Basically all of the things that Christians need a book like the bible to tell them is wrong, atheists have figured out for themselves using rational self interest and empathy. No mythology needed. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-white-christian-moderates-speak-up/715895/76 "2015-03-25T15:08:02Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Atheists that speak out are dickbags, _and_ it’s the atheist’s job to speak out against crap like this. > Hypocrisy much? Nope. It was an obvious play on what you and your cohorts have been saying to me, only this time it’s on you. I used your words. If I have to bear responsibility for “my” jerkoffs, you have to bear it for yours. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-white-christian-moderates-speak-up/715895/77 "2015-03-25T15:15:28Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > Huh, who would have thought that people wouldn’t like a bunch of dickbags. > > See, here’s the thing: it’s not even like racism or sexism or any other -ism. You don’t wear atheism externally, nobody will ever know whether or not you believe in God, and honestly, just like in this case, nobody cares. But, like the person we’re talking about in this thread, the only atheists people encounter are loud and obnoxious, who make it a point of pride to skewer other people’s beliefs. But they’re the only ones doing the talking. They’re digging the hole for you to climb out of. > > The parallels to this Robertson fellow are uncanny. So, here’s what you need to say: > > “Why have us Good And Moderate Atheists let those assholes have the megaphone for so long? They’re making us look like idiots.” > > If you don’t, loudly and publicly, well, I can only surmise it’s because you’re not a good atheist or something. I still haven’t figured out why I’m a bad person for not yelling into the wind over this Robertson guy and his ilk, so I certainly won’t be able to figure out why it might work for you. Bullshit! People do not have the opinion of atheists because of the few loud assholes that try to wear their lack of belief like a medal, they dislike all atheists because it is a threat to the church and and the church has taught them for centuries to hate and fear atheists. Hell, in some countries you can be put to death for simply declaring your atheism; I am willing to bet that there are not people in that country skewering other peoples beliefs and digging a hole for me to climb out of, so where do their opinions come in that society? From American atheists? Fucking laughable. I have never declared my atheism to anyone except my wife and my closest friends. I have never tried to skewer someone else’s faith (except maybe here on the anonymous SDMB). I would never do this because I have seen perfectly nice people ostracized and mistreated for saying nothing more that “I don’t believe” (I also believe skewering another’s beliefs is an asshole move as is all evangelizing). They were ostracized and mistreated by people who publicly said that the didn’t really care what a person’s religion was, but there actions spoke much louder than words. I have seen shit like this more than once\*. So your dismissal that people don’t like atheists in polls is because they don’t shut up about their lack of faith is, to me at least, complete and total bullshit. - One of the companies I worked for, a large multinational that started in a garage somewhere in California, had a facility that had a large contingent of members from the church of LDS. Of the ~5000 people that worked there, I would guess about 1000 of them belonged to the church. They were the friendliest people you could imagine, but a lack of belief in any religion was clearly unforgivable. The didn’t care what you believed in, as long as you had belief. The other group I saw that demonstrated this was my own family, Mennonites living in communities from Illinois to Pennsylvania. Also very nice people, but the amount of judgement cast against atheists, even quiet and generous ones, was incredible. Taught me very young to keep my mouth shut because the hatred was real, palpable, and completely arbitrary and irrational. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-white-christian-moderates-speak-up/715895/78 "2015-03-25T15:16:51Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > Nope. It was an obvious play on what you and your cohorts have been saying to me, only this time it’s on you. I used your words. If I have to bear responsibility for “my” jerkoffs, you have to bear it for yours. Because they command the same amount of media time and influence roughly the same number of people, right? Bullshit. Atheists have little to no chance of getting on any national media forum and denouncing shit like this, and (despite **Guin’s** claims to the contrary) moderate Christians seem to make little effort to do so. ---
**Author:** ![excavating\_for\_a\_mind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e8c25b/32.png) [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/excavating_for_a_mind)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-white-christian-moderates-speak-up/715895/79 "2015-03-25T15:17:42Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > We _know_ what he says is full of shit. :smack: > The point is, he(and so many others) are rabble-rousing using shit like this via the national airwaves and major Christian press, and you seem to think the answer is to point out that he is wrong…here. Again I ask: Who are the major Moderate Christian Voices out there that could be countering crap like this out on the public airwaves? One reason you don’t see more MCVs (Moderate Christian Voices) countering this on the public airwaves is, perhaps, MCVs respect both the Freedom of Speach and Freedom of Religion. Note that is not Freedom \*from \*Speach or Freedom \*from \*Religion. Trying to imply the story in the OP incites violence is just about as nutty as Phil Robertson’s comments. It does nothing of the sort. It neither paints all atheists as murderers and/or rapists nor suggests any harm should come to those believe differently. Perhaps it paints atheists in a bad light, but isn’t the point of this thread to paint MCVs in a bad light? However, posting about his ramblings is just increasing his exposure. Yesterday, when I woke up I had no idea who Phil Robertson was or why anyone would want to listen to him. Today, after a little research (very little) I gather that he is a opinionated, low-class, bigot who uses shock-speech to make himself famous. If I got that wrong, I’m sure ya’ll will let me know… Regardless, any press is good press for the guy. The worst thing for him is ignore him, which is what many MCVs are doing. If he crosses the line and actually starts to imply that a little violence would be a good thing, he will have jumped the shark and would be about as relevant then as Arthur Herbert Fonzarelli is today. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-white-christian-moderates-speak-up/715895/80 "2015-03-25T15:27:45Z")
> [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](#): > > One reason you don’t see more MCVs (Moderate Christian Voices) countering this on the public airwaves is, perhaps, MCVs respect both the Freedom of Speach and Freedom of Religion. > > Note that is not Freedom \*from \*Speach or Freedom \*from \*Religion. > > Trying to imply the story in the OP incites violence is just about as nutty as Phil Robertson’s comments. It does nothing of the sort. It neither paints all atheists as murderers and/or rapists nor suggests any harm should come to those believe differently. Perhaps it paints atheists in a bad light, but isn’t the point of this thread to paint MCVs in a bad light? > > However, posting about his ramblings is just increasing his exposure. Yesterday, when I woke up I had no idea who Phil Robertson was or why anyone would want to listen to him. Today, after a little research (very little) I gather that he is a opinionated, low-class, bigot who uses shock-speech to make himself famous. If I got that wrong, I’m sure ya’ll will let me know… > > Regardless, any press is good press for the guy. The worst thing for him is ignore him, which is what many MCVs are doing. If he crosses the line and actually starts to imply that a little violence would be a good thing, he will have jumped the shark and would be about as relevant then as Arthur Herbert Fonzarelli is today. No, the point of this thread isn’t to paint MCVs in a bad light-the point is to ask why MCVs allow people like Robertson(and so many others like him that get national attention) to paint MCVs in a bad light. "“In order for evil to flourish, all that is required is for good men to do nothing.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-white-christian-moderates-speak-up/715895.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-white-christian-moderates-speak-up/715895.md?page=5)