# When will white, christian moderates speak up? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 24, 2015, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-white-christian-moderates-speak-up/715895 "2015-03-24T21:10:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-white-christian-moderates-speak-up/715895/101 "2015-03-25T17:34:43Z")
> [@Algher](#): > > Actually, our church is pretty involved in environmental areas. That is a problem that we do want to address - and that we can fix. > > Fixing Pat Robertson? Low on the priority list. Better use of our time, energy, and money in other areas. Let’s say local Christian churches in your area have an annual gettogether-let’s call it a “Prayer Breakfast”-where they bring in a guest speaker to raise funds for various church activities and local charities. If they announced that they were bringing in Robertson(or someone equally vapid) would your church do anything to try to stop this from taking place, or would it just sit back and suck it up, because the money is going to a good cause? ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-white-christian-moderates-speak-up/715895/102 "2015-03-25T17:41:24Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Let’s say local Christian churches in your area have an annual gettogether-let’s call it a “Prayer Breakfast”-where they bring in a guest speaker to raise funds for various church activities and local charities. If they announced that they were bringing in Robertson(or someone equally vapid) would your church do anything to try to stop this from taking place, or would it just sit back and suck it up, because the money is going to a good cause? We would not attend, and given our reputation in the community, we would not be invited to something that would have Pat Robertson as a headliner. Even in our PCUSA group we are known as “that church.” It is fun. ---
**Author:** ![erysichthon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d07c76/32.png) [@erysichthon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erysichthon)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-white-christian-moderates-speak-up/715895/103 "2015-03-25T17:59:35Z")
> [@yanceylebeef](#): > > The head of the Robertson clan [opened his word](http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/phil-robertson-rape-murder-atheists) hole again. > > When will moderate Christians speak up and denounce this kind of rhetoric as the dangerous violence inciting speech that it is? By staying silent, you are giving implicit approval to the psychopathic ramblings of a man not encumbered by insight or functioning brain cells. I’m not a “moderate Christian,” whatever that means, but there aren’t enough hours in the day to do all the denouncing that pissy people on the interwebs are always demanding. I’ve got stuff to do, the sun is shining, and and _Survivor_ is on later. In any case I don’t see any particular need to denounce someone who is an obvious frootloop. It’s not as if his frootloopiness requires validation. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-white-christian-moderates-speak-up/715895/104 "2015-03-25T18:15:32Z")
> [@erysichthon](#): > > In any case I don’t see any particular need to denounce someone who is an obvious frootloop. It’s not as if his frootloopiness requires validation. When far-right nutcases like that claim to speak for Christians on a national forum on a regular basis, and nobody from the more moderate branch of Christianity pops up to contradict them, they get all the validation they need. This isn’t a case of “Don’t feed the trolls”-this is a case of “The trolls are already getting all the food they need so they are going stronger every day, but we’re just going to pretend they’re not there”. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-white-christian-moderates-speak-up/715895/105 "2015-03-25T18:25:55Z")
> [@Algher](#): > > Actually, our church is pretty involved in environmental areas. That is a problem that we do want to address - and that we can fix. > > Fixing Pat Robertson? Low on the priority list. Better use of our time, energy, and money in other areas. It sounds to me like you know Pat Robertson’s comments are way out of line, that they are vile and insipid, but because he shares the same religion as you do you don’t want to be associated with him. So, to protect your own mental comfort you distance yourself from his remarks, instead of addressing them. In other words, your own mental comfort is more important than doing the right thing. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-white-christian-moderates-speak-up/715895/106 "2015-03-25T18:28:03Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > When far-right nutcases like that claim to speak for Christians on a national forum on a regular basis, and nobody from the more moderate branch of Christianity pops up to contradict them, they get all the validation they need. This isn’t a case of “Don’t feed the trolls”-this is a case of “The trolls are already getting all the food they need so they are going stronger every day, but we’re just going to pretend they’re not there”. I just went through the CNN Religion page. Didn’t see one bit of reporting on Robertson. > **[CNN Belief - CNN](https://www.cnn.com/specials/belief)** > > CNN Belief covers the faith angles of the world's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment. So I went to MSNBC, surely they would have something: [http://www.msnbc.com/topics/religion](http://www.msnbc.com/topics/religion) Went to Fox, they don’t seem to have a section on Religion. But I did find some stuff on Phil Robertson: [http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2015/03/25/duck-dynasty-phil-robertson-under-fire-for-graphic-anti-atheist-speech-at-prayer-breakfast/](http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2015/03/25/duck-dynasty-phil-robertson-under-fire-for-graphic-anti-atheist-speech-at-prayer-breakfast/) Fox talks about how he is being slammed for his speech. So again - are you stating that we should start a flame war on this? Again - a little busy scheduling some gay marriages right now to worry about either Pat Robertson or Phil Robertson. Here is the thing, unlike Catholicism where the head of the church DOES have some sort of official “I speak for all Catholics” aura (I will let the Catholics correct me on this), we don’t have a Pope that speaks for us. We speak for ourselves. We speak with our actions. You ignoring our actions, while wallowing in the mud of a few outspoken demagogues doesn’t reflect poorly on us - it reflects poorly on those who judge all based on the actions of a few. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-white-christian-moderates-speak-up/715895/107 "2015-03-25T18:32:21Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > Huh, who would have thought that people wouldn’t like a bunch of dickbags. Why is it, do you think, that “vocal atheists” are a recent thing? That only in our society in very modern times that atheists feel comfortable enough to be able to actually declare their atheism and their reasons for it? Because for thousands of years, up until the extremely recent past historically, and only in certain places - the progressive west, admitting you were atheist, let alone advocating for it _was a death sentence_. Or perhaps if you lived in a very progressive place, only exile. Are you saying that the historical hatred for atheists was justified by a few people who weren’t afraid to meekly and quietly and respectfully admit their atheism while also profusely apologizing for it and saying oh no religion is a special beautiful thing and even though I personally don’t follow it, it’s a majestic institution and blah blah? You think Richard Dawkins is the source of all that hatred, not the thousands of years in human history in which being an atheist was the lowest fucking thing you could be? That’s disgusting. Could you imagine if you said some other historically persecuted group deserved the hate and discrimination and oppression they received because in the last few decades they’ve forgot their place was to shut up and not disturb the prevailing power structure and sensibilities of the most ignorant people? People would look at you as a vile as a vile, disgusting hatemonger. But no, saying that about atheists is cool. Which only proves my point. _This very thread_ very about fucking Pat Robertson engaging in the sort of illogical anti-atheist thinking that has resulted in thousands of years of hate and persecution, and here you sit saying “oh, the hate isn’t coming from the ignorance of him and his ilk, and people who were historically like him. No, the hate is coming because you deserved it because you said religion was silly on a message board” > [@](#): > > See, here’s the thing: it’s not even like racism or sexism or any other -ism. You don’t wear atheism externally, nobody will ever know whether or not you believe in God, and honestly, just like in this case, nobody cares. But, like the person we’re talking about in this thread, the only atheists people encounter are loud and obnoxious, who make it a point of pride to skewer other people’s beliefs. But they’re the only ones doing the talking. They’re digging the hole for you to climb out of. People have hated atheists with a fiery passion for most of human history even though the stigma and consequences for admitting atheism, let alone advocating for it, were so high that no one would admit to being an atheist. And yet that hatred still burned, despite people going their whole lives without ever encountering someone who ever admitted they were an atheist. So there your idea is disproven - even in the absense of admitted atheists, even the hint that atheists could exist in the hypothetical was something that generated an incredible amount of hatred. Do you really think, even in modern times, people like Pat Robertson would be cool with atheists except he read some fucking message board post somewhere that wasn’t deferential enough? You don’t think he comes from a fucking troglodyte religious tradition of hatred of atheists going back thousands of years? The fact that he can’t even fucking understand atheists - that he thinks the scenario quoted by the OP is okay by atheists - proves his hatred is rooted in ignorance and fear and not an actual assessment of what atheists are. > [@](#): > > The parallels to this Robertson fellow are uncanny. So, here’s what you need to say: > > “Why have us Good And Moderate Atheists let those assholes have the megaphone for so long? They’re making us look like idiots.” > > If you don’t, loudly and publicly, well, I can only surmise it’s because you’re not a good atheist or something. I still haven’t figured out why I’m a bad person for not yelling into the wind over this Robertson guy and his ilk, so I certainly won’t be able to figure out why it might work for you. Just like with gay rights, we’ve only come so far on the atheism front in recent times because of people who were unafraid to admit what they were, and say that it was okay. If everyone politely maintained their silence and gave lip service to the supremacy and soundness of religious belief people would still be too afraid to admit their atheism. Many - probably most - still are. And as far as atheism has come in that regard, we’re still regarded by many many people as being as bad or worse as rapists or murderers. Many parents would rather find out that their kid is gay and is dating a black muslim than that they were atheist. And I’m definitely not saying there’s anything wrong with being gay, or black, or a muslim - I’m only trying to serve it as a point of comparison. Most of us know just how much a gay, black, muslim person would be hated by the religious sorts, but few of us will admit that those same people hate atheists as much or more. Questioning whether their god exists is something that people find deeply unsettling in a way that’s apparently not triggered by other petty hatreds. And just as with other ignorant, oppressive, hateful beliefs, the best way to change people’s opinions is to challenge them. Would you be telling gay people to just hide themselves, since their condition wasn’t external? Live a life where you pretend to be heterosexual, never criticize the status quo that preaches hate for you, and for gods sake don’t let those gay extremists who are willing to say they’re gay and they think nothing is wrong with it speak for you. So many ignorant beliefs are given power because they dare not be questioned, and those who question them are looked at as “militant” scum. Religion still has a stranglehold on our society that has only recently begun to chip. There are what, 1 or 2 elected officials in any significant capacity in the entirety of the US and state legislatures and executives? Politicians would sooner be caught as rapists or murderers than they would atheists. No, but you’re right, I should know my place. I shouldn’t come into threads about Pat Robertson fucking telling people that atheists would be okay with their wife and kids being raped and murdered because hey, that’s the atheist code, we’re cool with it. I should afford religion a special privilege of being free from scrutiny even if I attack all prescientific magical belief systems that cause harm equally. Because religion is super special and dare not be questioned. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-white-christian-moderates-speak-up/715895/108 "2015-03-25T18:34:54Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > It sounds to me like you know Pat Robertson’s comments are way out of line, that they are vile and insipid, but because he shares the same religion as you do you don’t want to be associated with him. His religion has nothing to do with my lack of desire for association. > [@Robert163](#): > > So, to protect your own mental comfort you distance yourself from his remarks, instead of addressing them. In other words, your own mental comfort is more important than doing the right thing. Wrong again. But go ahead (as if you need my permission). Make stuff up about my motivations. Better yet - why don’t you make a proposal on what I should be spending my time on. You seem to be REALLY concerned with my time, no doubt you have a brilliant proposal on my activities. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-white-christian-moderates-speak-up/715895/109 "2015-03-25T18:35:56Z")
> [@Algher](#): > > We speak for ourselves. We speak with our actions. You ignoring our actions, while wallowing in the mud of a few outspoken demagogues doesn’t reflect poorly on us - it reflects poorly on those who judge all based on the actions of a few. You just basically confirmed my point that the reason you don’t speak out against him is because you don’t want to be associated with him. How come it is that in every other category, except condemning a fellow christian, you do the socially acceptable, moral, responsible act. In this one case you fail. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-white-christian-moderates-speak-up/715895/110 "2015-03-25T18:38:59Z")
> [@Algher](#): > > His religion has nothing to do with my lack of desire for association. > > Wrong again. > > But go ahead (as if you need my permission). Make stuff up about my motivations. Better yet - why don’t you make a proposal on what I should be spending my time on. You seem to be REALLY concerned with my time, no doubt you have a brilliant proposal on my activities. You’re right. I can’t speak to your motivations. All I can judge you on is your inaction. Maybe you could petition your pastor to draft a letter from the church denouncing Robertson. You’ve already established that you’re an activist church so taking such steps should be a relatively easy thing to do. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-white-christian-moderates-speak-up/715895/111 "2015-03-25T18:44:37Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > You’re right. I can’t speak to your motivations. All I can judge you on is your inaction. Maybe you could petition your pastor to draft a letter from the church denouncing Robertson. You’ve already established that you’re an activist church so taking such steps should be a relatively easy thing to do. Ooooh - a letter. A letter that will call more attention to a guys whose TV show is already on the decline. Maybe a letter to the editor too! I see no reason to pay any more attention to this idiot (I thought it was Pat, not Phil for example). That will FEED the flames. Better to ignore it, and let it go away. Don’t feed the trolls. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-white-christian-moderates-speak-up/715895/112 "2015-03-25T18:47:35Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > You just basically confirmed my point that the reason you don’t speak out against him is because you don’t want to be associated with him. How come it is that in every other category, except condemning a fellow christian, you do the socially acceptable, moral, responsible act. In this one case you fail. Who said I don’t speak against him? ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-white-christian-moderates-speak-up/715895/113 "2015-03-25T18:49:54Z")
> [@Algher](#): > > His religion has nothing to do with my lack of desire for association. > > Wrong again. > > But go ahead (as if you need my permission). Make stuff up about my motivations. Better yet - why don’t you make a proposal on what I should be spending my time on. You seem to be REALLY concerned with my time, no doubt you have a brilliant proposal on my activities. > [@](#): > > Elevatorgate: > Do you know what elevatorgate is? A few years ago a female Atheist blogger gave an account of a fellow Atheist at an Atheist conference, he was hitting on her while they were both alone on an elevator. He’d had a couple drinks too many and she had already told him in the bar politely that she didn’t want to leave the bar with him or go outside to talk or whatever advance he had made. When she left a little while later he followed her to the elevator and asked her if she wanted to come to his room for coffee. > > Now, she has never released the individuals name and her original comments were just a side note in the middle of a larger blog… ie, hey guys when a girl says she’s not interested… she’s not interested. At first no one even really paid attention to her comments, it wasn’t what that blog entry was specifically dedicated too. But a couple months later another blogger picked up on it and it started this whole big movement about how (some) Atheist guys thought they were all moral and correct but they were really chauvinistic in ways they perhaps did not recognize. Think of the analogy of a female working in an engineering company in the 1980’s and not being taken seriously… or comments of “Hey baby, I love your dress”… > > Sorry to make such a long story. The point is this event sparked a HUGE debate in the Atheist community and kind of split up the movement. Now we have (not as a direct result of that event but as an example of it)… now we have Atheism + (Atheism Plus) which says that we want to be Atheists and also be moral and not be sexist or racist and we want to preserve the planet and look out for economic equality… etc. So yes there are some Atheists who want to be rude or act in some negative manner and they disregard any criticism from fellow Atheists. But what is the alternative? Not to be critical? _Post 44 by Robert163_ > [@](#): > > You’re making that sound a lot more innocuous than it is. Here is some discussion that covers that incident somewhat. Rebecca “Not wanting to hear about [my brand of] feminism is worse than rape threats” Watson is a continual shit-stirrer that tries to find new ways that she can be oppressed even if she has to make them up. There are already groups who are united by a premise and atheism who want to make the world a better place like secular humanism. Atheism+ is an attempt to hijack atheist and skeptical movement to promote an agenda of people who are professional victims who say “rape culture” “patriarchy” and “trigger warning” roughly 90 times a day. And I’m not talking about feminism - I would suspect the activist atheist community is overwhelmingly in favor of gender egalitarianism. This shit is the epitome of first world problems, a creation of all sorts of imagined slights and oppressions because their identity relies on being a perpetual victim. She uses the notoriety she’s earned in the community to push divisive, alienating shit that pisses people off and has nothing to do with the movement. She creates all sorts of discord and divides among what’s already a marginalized group. _Post 58 by SenorBeef_ > [@](#): > > They may exaggerate to some degree but I agree with their complaints at a basic level. _Post 62 by Robert163_ Elevatorgate was a HUGE controversy in the Atheist community and people were very vocal. You don’t have to dedicate your whole life to criticizing your fellow christians but it’s not morally acceptable to ignore their transgressions. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-white-christian-moderates-speak-up/715895/114 "2015-03-25T18:55:29Z")
> [@Algher](#): > > Ooooh - a letter. A letter that will call more attention to a guys whose TV show is already on the decline. Maybe a letter to the editor too! I see no reason to pay any more attention to this idiot (I thought it was Pat, not Phil for example). > > That will FEED the flames. Better to ignore it, and let it go away. Don’t feed the trolls. > [@Algher](#): > > Who said I don’t speak against him? These two quotes seem to be contradictory. Furthermore, your first quote, that to criticize Robertson will just feed the flames, don’t feed the trolls, etc. Well, that’s true, it will encourage him. But saying nothing will ALSO encourage him. Therefor the morally responsible thing to do is to criticize him. When he get’s criticized it prevents OTHER people from making similar remarks. If you ignore him it will ENCOURAGE other people to make similar remarks. Because he is simply stating out loud what the other bigots are silently thinking. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-white-christian-moderates-speak-up/715895/115 "2015-03-25T19:00:55Z")
So tell me - how public did you go after ElevatorGate? Did you protest? Did you march? How about a letter to the editor? What were you doing to fight it? Or do you just think that sexual assault is OK? Perhaps your silence shows that you agree with it! Why are you so weak? Is it because they are atheists? Are you ignoring the immoral actions and behaviors of others because you are an atheist? What is wrong with you? Me - I don’t judge all atheists based on the actions of a few. I am even smart enough to know that there is not a single atheist that speaks for all of them. People on this message board have repeatedly reminded me that there is not a central atheist church, spokesman, or code that is followed. So why would anyone with an IQ above room temperature assume that one reality show clown speaks for Christians? Christians are ALREADY fractured by debate. This is why we have so many different sects, and we continue to splinter due to debate and disagreements. Maybe you missed the bit about how my church is debating, and splitting, over the ordination and marriage of gays and lesbians? Yeah - that is our debate and discussion and fighting and separation issue right now. All of that is taking place inside of our, small, particular branch of Christianity in the United States. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-white-christian-moderates-speak-up/715895/116 "2015-03-25T19:13:20Z")
> [@Algher](#): > > So tell me - how public did you go after ElevatorGate? Did you protest? Did you march? How about a letter to the editor? What were you doing to fight it? Or do you just think that sexual assault is OK? Perhaps your silence shows that you agree with it! Why are you so weak? Is it because they are atheists? Are you ignoring the immoral actions and behaviors of others because you are an atheist? What is wrong with you? > > Me - I don’t judge all atheists based on the actions of a few. I am even smart enough to know that there is not a single atheist that speaks for all of them. People on this message board have repeatedly reminded me that there is not a central atheist church, spokesman, or code that is followed. > > So why would anyone with an IQ above room temperature assume that one reality show clown speaks for Christians? > > Christians are ALREADY fractured by debate. This is why we have so many different sects, and we continue to splinter due to debate and disagreements. Maybe you missed the bit about how my church is debating, and splitting, over the ordination and marriage of gays and lesbians? Yeah - that is our debate and discussion and fighting and separation issue right now. All of that is taking place inside of our, small, particular branch of Christianity in the United States. Can I propose a propose a truce? I will answer your questions but there is no need to turn this into such a debate. I’ve already pushed it myself further than it needs to go. Also, please stop saying I can’t tell the difference between you and Robertson and that I need to understand he doesn’t speak for you. I know you’ll are different. I have some problems with your theology but that is a separate issue. Even a moderate theology vs a Fundamental one, still a separate issue. Your church does good good works, apparently a lot of them, and that is commendable, very commendable and an example of a positive value of religion. There is no way possible that I could say your religious devotion and your church has not made the world a better place. To answer your question, I didn’t do any marching and I didn’t write any letters. I did spends HOURS and HOURS talking with people who opposed the Atheism+ platform. I had friends that I disagreed with and criticized and that is not an easy thing to do. I was part, a small part, of a vocal force that made a change. It’s not really your lack of action that I have a problem with, it’s your attitude that you don’t _think_ you should do anything that I find problematic. If you felt strongly enough perhaps you would write a letter but as long as you think you don’t need to do anything, you’re not going to do anything. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-white-christian-moderates-speak-up/715895/117 "2015-03-25T19:17:33Z")
> [@Algher](#): > > So why would anyone with an IQ above room temperature assume that one reality show clown speaks for Christians? This is just one in a _looong_ line of clowns. He isn’t a “troll” when it comes representing Christianity-take a look at who has been their guest speaker in the past. He got picked because he brings in Christian money. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-white-christian-moderates-speak-up/715895/118 "2015-03-25T19:35:38Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > This is just one in a _looong_ line of clowns. He isn’t a “troll” when it comes representing Christianity-take a look at who has been their guest speaker in the past. He got picked because he brings in Christian money. He brings in right-wing Christian money. Jimmy Carter brings in the left-wing cash flow. We don’t do the fancy $x a plate fund raisers with fancy speakers. We are more likely to have a dinner of lentil soup with any speaker, and all money goes to the charity. I would love to get the attendee list from the event and shame anyone from PCUSA who went to that show. THAT we would be all over. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-white-christian-moderates-speak-up/715895/119 "2015-03-25T19:38:13Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > Can I propose a propose a truce? I will answer your questions but there is no need to turn this into such a debate. I’ve already pushed it myself further than it needs to go. Also, please stop saying I can’t tell the difference between you and Robertson and that I need to understand he doesn’t speak for you. I know you’ll are different. I have some problems with your theology but that is a separate issue. Even a moderate theology vs a Fundamental one, still a separate issue. Your church does good good works, apparently a lot of them, and that is commendable, very commendable and an example of a positive value of religion. There is no way possible that I could say your religious devotion and your church has not made the world a better place. > > To answer your question, I didn’t do any marching and I didn’t write any letters. I did spends HOURS and HOURS talking with people who opposed the Atheism+ platform. I had friends that I disagreed with and criticized and that is not an easy thing to do. I was part, a small part, of a vocal force that made a change. It’s not really your lack of action that I have a problem with, it’s your attitude that you don’t _think_ you should do anything that I find problematic. If you felt strongly enough perhaps you would write a letter but as long as you think you don’t need to do anything, you’re not going to do anything. Truce accepted. It is not the need, it is the impact. I have certainly been vocal in my community about the actions of those who claim to speak for Christians, and I don’t shy away from controversy on various social media channels either. I just don’t see what needs be done from Southern California about a Florida prayer breakfast, unless I find out that PCUSA money bought a table. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-white-christian-moderates-speak-up/715895/120 "2015-03-25T19:44:41Z")
> [@Algher](#): > > Truce accepted. > > It is not the need, it is the impact. I have certainly been vocal in my community about the actions of those who claim to speak for Christians, and I don’t shy away from controversy on various social media channels either. I just don’t see what needs be done from Southern California about a Florida prayer breakfast, unless I find out that PCUSA money bought a table. I don’t think there is a lot you could do really. Glad we were able to come to an understanding. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-white-christian-moderates-speak-up/715895.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-white-christian-moderates-speak-up/715895.md?page=7)