# When would a minority of people be religious and how would society look like? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 9, 2021, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-would-a-minority-of-people-be-religious-and-how-would-society-look-like/948260 "2021-08-09T00:32:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2021, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-would-a-minority-of-people-be-religious-and-how-would-society-look-like/948260/141 "2021-08-12T14:20:29Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > mean, this is the idea of “religious” common also to Africa Not really, no. African folk religion is considered just as legitimate a religion in every African country I’ve ever been in. > [@Mijin](#): > > you’re implicitly conceding here that the word “religious” may indeed carry these connotations for the majority of people reading my post I’m _explicitly_ conceding some degree of admiration for how swiftly you moved the goalposts there, that’s for sure. > [@Mijin](#): > > No; “not really” is not a valid gloss of saying “technically” Of course it is. The only reasons to emphasize that something is “technically” a thing is to imply the “…but not really”, or to dispute someone else saying it _isn’t_ a thing… They make memes about it and everything. Since I wasn’t saying CFR _isn’t_ a religion, the first sense applies. > [@Mijin](#): > > That’s not what I said though, I said the majority of Chinese people are far closer to naturalist atheist to a Christian evangelist. This is different to how we classify the beliefs themselves. And I dispute that, based entirely on the number of them who practice aspects of a religion that posits a supernatural aspect. Even if they’re just burning joss, they’re not being naturalists at all. > [@Mijin](#): > > No, they told me. _Many_ Chinese told you, unprompted, “I’m just going through the motions, here”? > [@Mijin](#): > > Personally, I don’t discount the possibility of some kind of afterlife – not playing a harp in the clouds, but waking up from a simulation or whatever. Does that make me religious? No. Do you practice any rituals around that belief, that you share with a group? > [@Mijin](#): > > Personally, I don’t discount the possibility of some kind of afterlife – not playing a harp in the clouds, but waking up from a simulation or whatever. Does that make me religious? If yes, then the word has been so watered down that many avowed atheists are religious. Many avowed atheists _are_ religious. The two are not antonyms. I think this is one fundamental disconnect we have - I’m definitely _not_ saying practitioners of folk religions can’t be atheists. > [@Mijin](#): > > I respect your experience on that. Do you? This would say different: > [@Mijin](#): > > I mean, this is the idea of “religious” common also to Africa Anyway, I’m not questioning what you’ve _experienced_, I’m questioning your _extrapolating_ your personal experience to the majority of Chinese, _counter_ to what they’ve self-reported. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2021, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-would-a-minority-of-people-be-religious-and-how-would-society-look-like/948260/142 "2021-08-12T14:23:22Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > This is offensive to me, and I suspect quite a few other atheists. And this non-atheist. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2021, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-would-a-minority-of-people-be-religious-and-how-would-society-look-like/948260/143 "2021-08-12T14:25:01Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Many avowed atheists _are_ religious. The two are not antonyms. I think this is one fundamental disconnect we have - I’m definitely _not_ saying practitioners of folk religions can’t be atheists. Yes, there is a good phrase here that I’ve heard people say: I’m religious but not spiritual (to turn the regular phrase on its head). Those who are into the ritual but don’t believe in the spiritual aspects. Now, I’m not saying that’s what the folk religion practitioners are doing, but there seems to be a very wide disconnect between orthopraxis and orthodoxy here. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2021, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-would-a-minority-of-people-be-religious-and-how-would-society-look-like/948260/144 "2021-08-12T14:29:29Z")
You also get atheist practitioners of other religions, like atheist Christians, Buddhists and Hindus. ---
**Author:** ![eldubose63](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/da6949/32.png) [@eldubose63](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eldubose63)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2021, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-would-a-minority-of-people-be-religious-and-how-would-society-look-like/948260/145 "2021-08-12T15:08:49Z")
I understand that you thinking in formal, traditional terms of the definitions of “religion” and possibly “religious”. However, my thoughts are in reference to the original question about “religious people” possibly becoming a “minority”. When you try to define “religious” it can have several different meanings. My thoughts were meant to convey, that in the strictest sense of the word, “religious people” will never be in the minority because the majority of human beings have and will continue to worship someone or something whether it be money, sex, themselves or someone else, pleasure, anything they offer religious devotion to even if it’s an “invisible pink unicorn.” 😀That includes atheists, agnostics and every other human being on this planet. It’s undeniably the nature of man to worship even if he is not tied to some mainstream or non-mainstream religion. ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2021, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-would-a-minority-of-people-be-religious-and-how-would-society-look-like/948260/146 "2021-08-12T15:11:00Z")
> [@eldubose63](#): > > It’s undeniably the nature of man to worship even if he is not tied to some mainstream or non-mainstream religion. That’s not true. Why do you think that? ---
**Author:** ![eldubose63](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/da6949/32.png) [@eldubose63](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eldubose63)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2021, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-would-a-minority-of-people-be-religious-and-how-would-society-look-like/948260/147 "2021-08-12T15:12:06Z")
Please explain why you think it’s not true. ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2021, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-would-a-minority-of-people-be-religious-and-how-would-society-look-like/948260/148 "2021-08-12T15:12:43Z")
That’s not how it works here. You made the claim, now prove it. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2021, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-would-a-minority-of-people-be-religious-and-how-would-society-look-like/948260/149 "2021-08-12T15:17:46Z")
> [@eldubose63](#): > > because the majority of human beings have and will continue to worship someone or something whether it be money, sex, themselves or someone else, pleasure, anything they offer religious devotion to … That includes atheists, agnostics and every other human being on this planet. It’s undeniably the nature of man to worship even if he is not tied to some mainstream or non-mainstream religion. You’re using the word “worship” in a very inclusive and commonly misused context. Money, sex, self and various other temporal pleasures are very different from religious practices. If nothing else, religious practices involve a delay of gratification. ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2021, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-would-a-minority-of-people-be-religious-and-how-would-society-look-like/948260/150 "2021-08-12T15:19:21Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > You’re using the word “worship” in a very inclusive and commonly misused context. Money, sex, self and various other temporal pleasures are very different from religious practices. Yes, this. If we include the urge for sex and the love of money under the definition of religious worship, it becomes meaningless. ---
**Author:** ![themapleleaf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/themapleleaf/32/14349_2.png) [@themapleleaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/themapleleaf)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2021, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-would-a-minority-of-people-be-religious-and-how-would-society-look-like/948260/151 "2021-08-12T15:24:58Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > > [@eldubose63](#): > > > > And remember, “There are no Atheists in Foxholes”. > > This is offensive to me, and I suspect quite a few other atheists. I have faced almost certain at least three times in my life, and not once did I seek out any invisible entity to pull my fat out of the fire. “There are no atheists in foxholes” is a presumptuous and patronizing statement that speaks for others. I am an atheist and a former Eastern Orthodox Christian. I prayed when I was religious and hoped that God would grant my prayers. Since I left religion, I have not prayed or relied on faith in a god in any times of trouble. I consider it as irrational as writing to Santa Claus and hoping to get a response. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2021, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-would-a-minority-of-people-be-religious-and-how-would-society-look-like/948260/152 "2021-08-12T15:30:29Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > You’re using the word “worship” in a very inclusive and commonly misused context. Money, sex, self and various other temporal pleasures are very different from religious practices. I agree, but humans do seem to have a natural tendency towards religion/spiritual beliefs. Remove organised religion and what happens to that tendency? ---
**Author:** ![eldubose63](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/da6949/32.png) [@eldubose63](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eldubose63)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2021, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-would-a-minority-of-people-be-religious-and-how-would-society-look-like/948260/153 "2021-08-12T15:35:36Z")
I understand. However, I did not say religious worship. I said worship, which can mean idolizing or giving religious devotion to anything from a rock to a tree and as was mentioned, sex, money, and so on. All of these words and their meanings are closely linked together. Would you agree? ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2021, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-would-a-minority-of-people-be-religious-and-how-would-society-look-like/948260/154 "2021-08-12T15:38:01Z")
> [@eldubose63](#): > > Would you agree? Absolutely not. I’ve never worshiped, idolized or given religious devotion to anything in my life since I discovered that I’m an atheist, neither material nor immaterial things. Why should I? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2021, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-would-a-minority-of-people-be-religious-and-how-would-society-look-like/948260/155 "2021-08-12T15:40:16Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > I agree, but humans do seem to have a natural tendency towards religion/spiritual beliefs. Remove organised religion and what happens to that tendency? Claims similar to, _‘I’m spiritual, not religious’_, and the like. Also a bunch of pseudo-scientific bullshit spouted by the likes of Deepak Chopra and similar woo-hucksters. But saying people worship money, or drugs, or sex have no more basis than me saying I worship sailing and skiing. I mean, I really enjoy those things and spend time and resources on doing them as often as I reasonably can. But I don’t “worship” them. Even if I did, to the detriment of my own well being and that of my family, it would not be worship as much as a mental disorder for which I might need professional attention. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2021, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-would-a-minority-of-people-be-religious-and-how-would-society-look-like/948260/156 "2021-08-12T15:45:02Z")
> [@eldubose63](#): > > Would you agree? Expanding the definitions of “religion” and “worship” so broad as to support your statement doesn’t make your statement true-It makes your definitions nonsensical. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2021, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-would-a-minority-of-people-be-religious-and-how-would-society-look-like/948260/157 "2021-08-12T15:53:13Z")
> [@eldubose63](#): > > I understand. However, I did not say religious worship. I said worship, which can mean idolizing or giving religious devotion to anything from a rock to a tree and as was mentioned, sex, money, and so on. All of these words and their meanings are closely linked together. Would you agree? I think this is kind of a meme among some religious people. But I don’t believe it’s true. Sure, people have to spend their time doing _something_, and some people get obsessive about work, hobbies etc, but that’s hardly universal. What would idolising mean in your definition? How would you identify what a given person idolised? ---
**Author:** ![eldubose63](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/da6949/32.png) [@eldubose63](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eldubose63)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2021, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-would-a-minority-of-people-be-religious-and-how-would-society-look-like/948260/158 "2021-08-12T15:55:21Z")
I understand. However, in reality the definitions of those words “religion”, “worship”, “religious” and others take on different meanings to different people even the so called scholars. My point was and still is that you cannot confine people who are “religious” to any particular religion. All of us have a spiritual side even if we deny it or neglect it. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2021, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-would-a-minority-of-people-be-religious-and-how-would-society-look-like/948260/159 "2021-08-12T15:56:50Z")
> [@eldubose63](#): > > All of us have a spiritual side even if we deny it or neglect it. Another unsupported statement you want us to disprove, I take it? ---
**Author:** ![leahcim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b4bc9f/32.png) [@leahcim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leahcim)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2021, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-would-a-minority-of-people-be-religious-and-how-would-society-look-like/948260/160 "2021-08-12T15:57:43Z")
> [@themapleleaf](#): > > “There are no atheists in foxholes” is a presumptuous and patronizing statement that speaks for others. I’ve heard it said that even if true, the statement “there are no atheists in foxholes” is not an argument against atheism – it is an argument against foxholes. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-would-a-minority-of-people-be-religious-and-how-would-society-look-like/948260.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-would-a-minority-of-people-be-religious-and-how-would-society-look-like/948260.md?page=9)