# When would a minority of people be religious and how would society look like? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 9, 2021, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-would-a-minority-of-people-be-religious-and-how-would-society-look-like/948260 "2021-08-09T00:32:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2021, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-would-a-minority-of-people-be-religious-and-how-would-society-look-like/948260/161 "2021-08-12T15:59:58Z")
> [@tavaritz](#): > > OK, stop that! To believe in non-material things has nothing to do with religion. Or if it has then all mathematicians are religious people. > > Or does believing in justice make me a religious being? > > All abstract things are non-material and need thus to be believed in but not all abstract things are about religion. Religion, math, currency, nation-states, justice… these are all fictional ideas we invented in order to organize and motivate our societies. The fact that we invented them doesn’t make them any more useful than any other tool we’ve made as Humans. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2021, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-would-a-minority-of-people-be-religious-and-how-would-society-look-like/948260/162 "2021-08-12T16:02:10Z")
> [@eldubose63](#): > > My point was and still is that you cannot confine people who are “religious” to any particular religion. They tend to do so without our help. Have you noticed? ---
**Author:** ![eldubose63](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/da6949/32.png) [@eldubose63](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eldubose63)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2021, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-would-a-minority-of-people-be-religious-and-how-would-society-look-like/948260/163 "2021-08-12T16:02:36Z")
There are many people who do not practice a religion, who do not meditate, pray or belong to any group, who are very spiritual people. Being a spiritual person is synonymous with being a person whose highest priority is to be loving to yourself and others . A spiritual person cares about people, animals and the planet. There are those that choose to be the opposite of that. Would you agree? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2021, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-would-a-minority-of-people-be-religious-and-how-would-society-look-like/948260/164 "2021-08-12T16:03:57Z")
> [@eldubose63](#): > > Would you agree? Your definitions are being stretched to fit your statements. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2021, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-would-a-minority-of-people-be-religious-and-how-would-society-look-like/948260/165 "2021-08-12T16:05:24Z")
> [@eldubose63](#): > > A spiritual person cares about people, animals and the planet. There are those that choose to be the opposite of that. That is rather insulting also. You are either “spiritual” or you are an uncaring asshole? 🙄 ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2021, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-would-a-minority-of-people-be-religious-and-how-would-society-look-like/948260/166 "2021-08-12T16:06:53Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > 🤷‍♂️ None of those things are gods. The Pew survey I linked earlier showed 22% of self declared atheists hold at least one of the three ‘new age’ beliefs they asked about. This gets into serious categorizing pain in the ass territory 😛 Like, just think: if an atheist who believes in souls is an atheist, is an animist an atheist? An animist just believes in a shitload more souls. And if every rock and tree and whatever has a soul, and that river or that mountain has a really big strong soul, what’s the difference between you and a polytheist? Just whether you name the ‘big soul of that mountain’ a god or not… ---
**Author:** ![eldubose63](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/da6949/32.png) [@eldubose63](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eldubose63)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2021, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-would-a-minority-of-people-be-religious-and-how-would-society-look-like/948260/167 "2021-08-12T16:07:53Z")
Yes I agree. I believe in many things. However, there’s a big difference in belief and worship. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2021, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-would-a-minority-of-people-be-religious-and-how-would-society-look-like/948260/168 "2021-08-12T16:08:15Z")
> [@Knowed\_Out](#): > > One who has no belief in deities has no reason to believe in ghosts and crystals One who DOES have belief in deities has no reason to believe in ghosts or crystals either, so I don’t see how this follows ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2021, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-would-a-minority-of-people-be-religious-and-how-would-society-look-like/948260/169 "2021-08-12T16:09:25Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I think that’s a very Western view, and is not actually baggage that exists in most of the world. Folk religions and non-doctrinaire faiths are widespread. Regular “church attendance” isn’t a big thing for a lot of Hindus, for instance. Regular attendance and prayer is very definitely part of the Muslim world, however. > [@eldubose63](#): > > n Christianity, “God” usually means the creator of all things but even then, there are many different belief systems within Christianity that define “God” in different ways or forms. We only hit the tip of the iceberg there. In fact a “god” can be anything we give devotion to or “worship”, money, sex, oneself or someone else along with so many other things which are too long to list. Whatever or whoever we worship or idolize becomes a “god” to us. So, in the strictest sense, “religion” or “religious people” are not and will never be in the “minority”. And remember, “There are no Atheists in Foxholes”. Good point. One can be a devout atheist but still worship the Almighty Dollar. > [@Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](#): > > Some countries with more than half the population declaring no religion are The Czech Republic, Estonia, Japan, North Korea and China now. Don’t forget the Soviet Union in its heyday. Japan is odd: [Religion in Japan - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Japan) **Religion in Japan** _manifests primarily in [Shinto](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shinto) and in [Buddhism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism), the two main [faiths](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faith), which [Japanese people](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_people) often practice simultaneously. According to estimates, as many as 80% of the populace follow Shinto rituals to some degree, worshiping ancestors and [spirits](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kami) at domestic altars and [public shrines](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shinto_shrine). An almost equally high number is reported[[3]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Japan#cite_note-ACA_Yearbook-3) as Buddhist._ But indeed, around 60% say “None”. Yes, we will forget the USSR, as being religious was a good way to be sent to the gulag. People hid their faith. North Korea also doesn’t count for the same reason and **@Mijin** has written several long posts explaining faith and religion in china. The Czech Republic [The Czech Republic: Religion](https://www.private-prague-guide.com/czech-republic-religion/#:~:text=Presently%2C%2039.8%25%20of%20Czechs%20consider,%3B%20and%2013.4%25%20are%20undecided). _Today, the Czech Republic enjoys strict freedom of religion. During the 40 years of Communist rule; however, religion was virtually outlawed, and churchgoing was strongly discouraged. Perhaps due to so many years of institutionalized atheism, many Czechs today are either atheist or refuse to affiliate with any one church._ _Presently, 39.8% of Czechs consider themselves atheist; 39.2% are Roman Catholics; 4.6% are Protestant, with 1.9% in the Czech-founded Hussite Reform Church, 1.6% in the Czech Brotherhood Evangelic Church, and 0.5% in the Silesian Evangelic Church; 3% are members of the Orthodox Church; and 13.4% are undecided. In addition, many foreign churches -e.g. Buddhism, etc., have been introduced since 1989, and have established small parishes around the country. A small Jewish community of about 10,000 still exists. Before the Nazi invasion, Jews numbered as high as 360,000._ ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2021, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-would-a-minority-of-people-be-religious-and-how-would-society-look-like/948260/170 "2021-08-12T16:11:47Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Good point. One can be a devout atheist but still worship the Almighty Dollar. This statement is absolute nonsense. Atheists do NOT “worship” the Almighty Dollar in any way shape or form using the same definition of “worship” used when referring to religionists. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2021, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-would-a-minority-of-people-be-religious-and-how-would-society-look-like/948260/171 "2021-08-12T16:14:19Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Yes, we will forget the USSR, as being religious was a good way to be sent to the gulag. People hid their faith. Nonsense. Churches continued to operate during Communist rule. People continued to attend, though not in very large numbers. Most preferred to practice their religion in private. People were sent to the gulags not for expression of their faith alone but for voicing their opposition to the party and criticizing the authorities. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2021, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-would-a-minority-of-people-be-religious-and-how-would-society-look-like/948260/172 "2021-08-12T16:17:58Z")
You have never looked to someone or something to help them get out of horrible or life threatening situations? Not a parent, a mentor, just plan luck? > [@Czarcasm](#): > > This is offensive to me, and I suspect quite a few other atheists. I have faced almost certain at least three times in my life, and not once did I seek out any invisible entity to pull my fat out of the fire. It is a old quote dating back to WW2. There are many quotes that may not really apply to everyone. However, IIRC you have never actually served in the front line military, have you? Been in a foxhole under enemy fire? Nor have I, only been shot at a couple times myself, so I can’t say on my personal experience either. Ike seemed to think this was a truism, and he likely had more military experience than all of us here put together. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2021, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-would-a-minority-of-people-be-religious-and-how-would-society-look-like/948260/173 "2021-08-12T16:17:59Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > > [@SanVito](#): > > > > Mm, this just doesn’t happen in the UK. > > I think you have a selective memory, there. Blair was quite upfront about being religious and [making faith-based political decisions](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/4772142.stm). Actually I think your article proves he’s right, that this IS very unusual. Nobody writes about it when a US Republican or even a Democrat bases their decision on religion. And I couldn’t even imagine another politician attacking a religious statement in this way in the US: > [@](#): > > Dr Evan Harris, a Liberal Democrat MP and honorary associate of the National Secular Society, said the comments were “bizarre” and warned against politicians making “references to deity” in public life. ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2021, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-would-a-minority-of-people-be-religious-and-how-would-society-look-like/948260/174 "2021-08-12T16:22:08Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > You have never looked to someone or something to help them get out of horrible or life threatening situations? Not a parent, a mentor, just plan luck? Of course I have. What does that have to do with religion, worship or atheists in foxholes? Those are all human and worldly resources. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2021, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-would-a-minority-of-people-be-religious-and-how-would-society-look-like/948260/175 "2021-08-12T16:24:15Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > **You have never looked to someone or something to help** them get out of horrible or life threatening situations? Not a parent, a mentor, just plan luck? (bolding mine) You mean like a medical professional? How is that in any way similar to praying for divine intervention? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2021, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-would-a-minority-of-people-be-religious-and-how-would-society-look-like/948260/176 "2021-08-12T16:24:27Z")
Go to a military cemetery-it shouldn’t be too hard to find markers with the Atheist symbol on them. I have had a gun pointed at my head more than once, and I had a brain injury that I wasn’t expected to survive. At no time during those incidents did I pray to, beg to or even wonder about any supernatural entity or entities. Ike made speeches designed to appeal to the public at large. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2021, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-would-a-minority-of-people-be-religious-and-how-would-society-look-like/948260/177 "2021-08-12T16:25:12Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > It is a old quote dating back to WW2. There are many quotes that may not really apply to everyone. However, IIRC you have never actually served in the front line military, have you? Been in a foxhole under enemy fire? Nor have I, only been shot at a couple times myself, so I can’t say on my personal experience either. Ike seemed to think this was a truism, and he likely had more military experience than all of us here put together. My grandfather was an atheist in foxhole. Back in, as you say, WWII. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2021, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-would-a-minority-of-people-be-religious-and-how-would-society-look-like/948260/178 "2021-08-12T16:28:02Z")
Was I using that in the same sense? You think that the common and well known term “worship the Almighty dollar” is misusing the word 'worship"? Need me to get a dictionary out? > [@QuickSilver](#): > > Nonsense. Churches continued to operate during Communist rule. People continued to attend, though not in very large numbers. Most preferred to practice their religion in private. P See my cite about for The Czech Republic. And here: > **[Religion in the Soviet Union](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_Soviet_Union)** > > Religion in the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics (USSR) was dominated by the fact that it became the first state to have as one objective of its official ideology the elimination of existing religion, and the prevention of future implanting of religious belief, with the goal of establishing state atheism (gosateizm). However, the main religions of pre-revolutionary Russia persisted throughout the entire Soviet period. Christians belonged to various denominations: Orthodox (which ha > The vast... _And from the start of the 1930s, Protestants - like other religious groups - experienced the full force of Soviet repression. Churches were shut and religious leaders were arrested and convicted, often charged with anti-Soviet activity. One of the leaders of the Pentecostals movement, [Ivan Voronaev](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_Voronaev), was sentenced to death in 1937, for example._ and here: > **[Why Stalin Tried to Stamp Out Religion in the Soviet Union | HISTORY](https://www.history.com/news/joseph-stalin-religion-atheism-ussr)** > > Joseph Stalin led a uniquely brutal campaign against religion and religious leaders. [J\*oseph Stalin](https://www.history.com/topics/russia/joseph-stalin), as the second leader of the Soviet Union, tried to enforce militant atheism on the republic. The new “socialist man,” Stalin argued, was an atheist one, free of the religious chains that had helped to bind him to class oppression. From 1928 until [World War II](https://www.history.com/topics/world-war-ii/world-war-ii-history), when some restrictions were relaxed, the totalitarian dictator shuttered churches, synagogues and mosques and ordered the killing and imprisonment of thousands of religious leaders in an effort to eliminate even the _concept_ of God.\* I could go on, but you are very, very wrong. > [@EinsteinsHund](#): > > Of course I have. What does that have to do with religion, worship or atheists in foxholes? Those are all human and worldly resources. Read what you replied to: > [@eldubose63](#): > > However, the point that I was trying to express is that generally speaking, human beings, whether they are atheist or not, will look to someone or something to help them get out of horrible or life threatening situations. It’s only human right? **someone or something** > [@Czarcasm](#): > > have had a gun pointed at my head more than once, and I had a brain injury that I wasn’t expected to survive. In a foxhole, under enemy fire? The aphorism is not “There are no atheists with guns pointed at their head.” In any case, it is a old quote and attempts to find a example when the quote doesn’t apply is pointless. ---
**Author:** ![eldubose63](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/da6949/32.png) [@eldubose63](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eldubose63)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2021, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-would-a-minority-of-people-be-religious-and-how-would-society-look-like/948260/179 "2021-08-12T16:30:27Z")
That’s not what I meant to do. Maybe I should have put it another way. For me, being spiritual means looking at all the beauty around me. Looking into my son’s eyes and knowing he loves his old man. Spiritual for me was cutting his cord when he was born 20 years ago and just being thankful that I can see him every few years now. Being spiritual for me means being thankful and experiencing things that are much bigger than me. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2021, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-would-a-minority-of-people-be-religious-and-how-would-society-look-like/948260/180 "2021-08-12T16:31:56Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I could go on… I wouldn’t, if I were you. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-would-a-minority-of-people-be-religious-and-how-would-society-look-like/948260.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-would-a-minority-of-people-be-religious-and-how-would-society-look-like/948260.md?page=10)