# When you see/meet someone, do you subconsciously/consciously make a note of their nationality? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 25, 2019, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-you-see-meet-someone-do-you-subconsciously-consciously-make-a-note-of-their-nationality/837599 "2019-07-25T06:01:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![lingyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d2c977/32.png) [@lingyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lingyi)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2019, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-you-see-meet-someone-do-you-subconsciously-consciously-make-a-note-of-their-nationality/837599/1 "2019-07-25T06:01:45Z")
Okay, I’m bored right now. 😃 I don’t know if this is just a local Hawaii thing (because of our multi-ethnic mix) or because I’m Asian (Okinawan/Japanese), but when I see/meet someone for the first time, do you make a mental note of their nationality? This may also be because I’m a generation away from my parents plantation life, where different ethnic groups lived in different camps (Japanese, Filipino, Korean, etc) and there was an strong ethnic hierarchy with each group placing themselves at the top. Before someone starts yelling RACIST!, most locals do the same thing. Me: “Remember that guy I was talking to?” Them: “Which one?” Me: “The Filipino guy.” Them: “Oh…okay. What about him?” Walking down the street, my mind is subconsciously ticking off, Filipino, Chinese, Portuguese, etc. Sorry caucasians, you’re generally all white person to me. But I don’t feel too bad because based on posts I’ve read, even some Europeans have difficulty discerning other European nationalities. Of course there are people with mixed ethnicities, but one usually stands out. Of course I’ll never know for sure, but I’d say I’m about 90% correct when guessing ethnicities. Why does it matter? While this sounds like stereotypes and it may well be, but I find that certain nationalities are initially more aloof than others and takes a little more tact when dealing with them. I’ve posted stories about how when I first started visiting Chinese and Korean video stores, I’d get the cold shoulder. But as I showed them a genuine interest and slight knowledge of their national language, they quickly warmed up to me. Sometimes ending with, Them: “But you’re not Chinese/Korean are you?”." Me: “No, I’m Okinawan/Japanese.” Them: “Awww…close enough! You’re Chinese/Korean!” At least for me, it helps break the ice with someone, especially if they’re an immigrant, if I throw in a: Aigoo! = Korean Ai souse! = Filipino Ai Ya!= Chinese ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2019, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-you-see-meet-someone-do-you-subconsciously-consciously-make-a-note-of-their-nationality/837599/2 "2019-07-25T06:05:46Z")
Consciously, but then, I work in international contexts where often the first sign that someone is from Yet Another Country is their greeting and their name, and where our relative comfort levels with the project’s different languages is an important thing to track. “Work language is XYZ” doesn’t necessarily equal “everybody’s XYZ is decent to good”. I find it very interesting but not in a good way that apparently you distinguish “Portuguese” and “Caucasian”. WTF dude? I mean, I can see “I can’t tell white folk apart until they open their mouth”, but that applies to other ethnicities as well. Or do you think you can tell a Han born in Shanghai from one born in Valencia by how they look? ---
**Author:** ![lingyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d2c977/32.png) [@lingyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lingyi)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2019, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-you-see-meet-someone-do-you-subconsciously-consciously-make-a-note-of-their-nationality/837599/3 "2019-07-25T07:09:33Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Consciously, but then, I work in international contexts where often the first sign that someone is from Yet Another Country is their greeting and their name, and where our relative comfort levels with the project’s different languages is an important thing to track. “Work language is XYZ” doesn’t necessarily equal “everybody’s XYZ is decent to good”. > > I find it very interesting but not in a good way that apparently you distinguish “Portuguese” and “Caucasian”. WTF dude? I mean, I can see “I can’t tell white folk apart until they open their mouth”, but that applies to other ethnicities as well. Or do you think you can tell a Han born in Shanghai from one born in Valencia by how they look? I may be politically incorrect, but my definition and the dictionary’s definition of Caucasian is a person with fair/white skin. It may be just that the majority of the Portuguese who immigrated and those who are are descended from those original immigrants tend to be slightly darker skinned with more prominent distinguishing features. Possibly because they came from more rural areas of Portugal, just as the majority of other immigrants did. ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2019, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-you-see-meet-someone-do-you-subconsciously-consciously-make-a-note-of-their-nationality/837599/4 "2019-07-25T07:23:22Z")
Are you sure you don’t mean “ethnicity” rather than “nationality”? All the Hawaii residents I meet are American citizens (setting aside the issue of Hawaiian sovereignty for a moment). But sure, in Hawaii you will constantly encounter people from a variety of ethnic backgrounds, and taking note of that fact is just practical. The cultural organization I work with wants to be well positioned to seek grant money … so let’s be sure the people coming to our exhibitions or participating in our music programs represent a cross-section of communities. We’re very conscious of the fact that while haolies flock to our offerings, there aren’t so many native Hawaiians involved. So yeah, let’s invite that politically active native Hawaiian artist to join our board! And so on. It’s not racist, it’s race-aware, because we want to be equally welcoming to everyone, which means taking note of groups we aren’t serving as well and doing our best to be inclusive. ---
**Author:** ![lingyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d2c977/32.png) [@lingyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lingyi)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2019, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-you-see-meet-someone-do-you-subconsciously-consciously-make-a-note-of-their-nationality/837599/5 "2019-07-25T07:28:46Z")
Also, yes, I can generally tell (and it may be confirmation bias, but I’m usually right) a newly immigrated native from their home country from one born and raised in another county. It’s not only their physical features, but their dress, mannerisms and of course speech. Again, bordering on stereotypes, but I think Southern Chinese generally have slightly darker (not just skin tone) and heavier features than Central China Chinese. There’s a Chinese singer, Fu Jing of Rocket Girls who the first time I saw her on the TV show _Produce 101 - China,_ I immediately thought “Hong Kongie”. I was wrong, but close. She’s from Shanghai. Edit: Ah…I like that term “race-aware”. I’m sure I’ll find a use for it! ---
**Author:** ![lingyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d2c977/32.png) [@lingyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lingyi)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2019, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-you-see-meet-someone-do-you-subconsciously-consciously-make-a-note-of-their-nationality/837599/6 "2019-07-25T07:33:57Z")
> [@CairoCarol](#): > > Are you sure you don’t mean “ethnicity” rather than “nationality”? All the Hawaii residents I meet are American citizens (setting aside the issue of Hawaiian sovereignty for a moment). > > But sure, in Hawaii you will constantly encounter people from a variety of ethnic backgrounds, and taking note of that fact is just practical. The cultural organization I work with wants to be well positioned to seek grant money … so let’s be sure the people coming to our exhibitions or participating in our music programs represent a cross-section of communities. We’re very conscious of the fact that while haolies flock to our offerings, there aren’t so many native Hawaiians involved. So yeah, let’s invite that politically active native Hawaiian artist to join our board! And so on. It’s not racist, it’s race-aware, because we want to be equally welcoming to everyone, which means taking note of groups we aren’t serving as well and doing our best to be inclusive. Yes, I always mix up nationality and ethnicity. Mahalo! Also, I forget how long you’ve been in Hawaii, but your post shows you understand and embrace the kama’aina spirit. You’re sistah CairoCarol! ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2019, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-you-see-meet-someone-do-you-subconsciously-consciously-make-a-note-of-their-nationality/837599/7 "2019-07-25T08:06:52Z")
I don’t see any reason why it would be a bad thing (assuming you’re not jumping out with ‘eh check out all those \ they’re so \’ which I assume you’re not) any more than taking note of who’s male or female, tall or short, or any other categories you can put people into. I’m currently studying at Uni in a course in which I’ve scientifically estimated about 92% of my fellow-students are from o/s originally, and we all kind of take note of “where we’re all from” as a topic of conversation. Like “where might this person be from, whose name looks Chinese to me, but doesn’t to my actual Chinese classmates?” (we ended up with ‘probably Korean’ but I have no idea if we were right or not) or “can Australians detect Singaporean accents?” (answer in my case - from Mainland Chinese? Sure! From Malaysian? Not a hope) It’s all part of being interested in people. I usually don’t know if I was right or not because I’m not rude enough to bowl up to random strangers with ‘hey, where are you _from_’? but that’s okay too ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2019, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-you-see-meet-someone-do-you-subconsciously-consciously-make-a-note-of-their-nationality/837599/8 "2019-07-25T08:21:39Z")
You don’t know their nationality. Nitpick but true. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-you-see-meet-someone-do-you-subconsciously-consciously-make-a-note-of-their-nationality/837599/9 "2019-07-26T00:57:11Z")
> [@lingyi](#): > > Before someone starts yelling RACIST!, most locals do the same thing. Racism is racism regardless of how many people around you do it. You seem to know this but want you to use the excuse ‘but everybody does it’ ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-you-see-meet-someone-do-you-subconsciously-consciously-make-a-note-of-their-nationality/837599/10 "2019-07-26T04:03:26Z")
I’m lucky if I note their gender. It’s just honestly not something I pay attention to. Unless I have a particular reason to note someone’s ethnicity – they tell an interesting story that’s somehow related, or their appearance is unusual or striking enough for me to notice, I won’t even remember the next day. I’ve literally known people for years without knowing their ethnicity. In one case, a co-worker had a Hispanic last name, and it somehow came up in discussion, and when I mentioned something about her being Latino, she looked at me like I was crazy. It turned out that she was Caucasian, but had married someone Latino and taken his name. When I really took a good look at her, I guess it was fairly obvious that she was Caucasian, I just had never thought about it. I also tend to think people look alike or confuse them without regard to ethnicity. I once mentioned that someone looked just like my father, and the person I was speaking with immediately pointed out that my father is white, and the person I was comparing him to was black. That just wasn’t a part of the comparison I was making. Although I tend to do fine on the face blindness tests, I do think that there is something going on with me cognitively where I do have more trouble differentiating people or sorting them by ethnicity. If I concentrate, I can put people into the basic categories, but it’s not something I think about unless I have a specific reason. I am lucky that I’ve never been asked to be a witness in a court case, because I’m very unlikely to recall someone’s appearance or be able to pick them out of a lineup. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-you-see-meet-someone-do-you-subconsciously-consciously-make-a-note-of-their-nationality/837599/11 "2019-07-26T14:21:21Z")
When I see someone I tend to make a note of just about everything about their appearance. Clothes (appropriateness, cute, dorky), shoes, hairstyle (Great haircut- do I need to ask who their hairdresser is?), age, height, weight, makeup if it’s a woman (or a man if he works at Sephora), teeth, glasses, skin color, ethnicity, jewelry, manicure or lack of. Also, does he or she seem to be gay? Lately, I’ve been looking for a new perfume, so I’ve been known to go up to strange women and men, too, and ask them what scent they’re wearing. In short, I notice it all and consider it all worthy of notice and worthy of comment. Carry on. ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-you-see-meet-someone-do-you-subconsciously-consciously-make-a-note-of-their-nationality/837599/12 "2019-07-26T16:40:51Z")
> [@lingyi](#): > > I forget how long you’ve been in Hawaii, but your post shows you understand and embrace the kama’aina spirit. You’re sistah CairoCarol! Thank you for the kind words. I started spending time in Hawaii around 2002, but have only lived here full-time for a little over a year and try to stay mindful of my newcomer status. I do have an advantage over many malihini in developing perspective: three years living on Pohnpei, and another 24 years living abroad elsewhere. Some day I may even learn to spell “haole” correctly. (At least “haolie” is an improvement over “howlie,” which was what I assumed the spelling was when I first heard the term 32 years ago 🙂 ) This thread reminds me of an anecdote from Judy Rohrer’s book, _Haoles in Hawaii_. She describes a college student from the mainland who is doing a semester at UH and is deeply offended that she is openly referred to as haole. The people around her are amused. The irony is that if she’d relax and stop objecting to what she (incorrectly) perceives as being tagged as an outsider…she’d be a lot less of an outsider. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-you-see-meet-someone-do-you-subconsciously-consciously-make-a-note-of-their-nationality/837599/13 "2019-07-26T18:59:53Z")
I don’t note nationality because I assume everybody I meet is american. I do notice ethnicity, at least as far as broad categories go (black/asian/white/none-of-the-above), and then after noticing the person’s ethnicity proceed to walk right past the person and forget I ever saw them. They got nothin’ to do with me, no matter what they look like. ---
**Author:** ![robardin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/43a26b/32.png) [@robardin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robardin)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-you-see-meet-someone-do-you-subconsciously-consciously-make-a-note-of-their-nationality/837599/14 "2019-07-26T19:49:22Z")
Yes, and I find it a bit eye-rolling when people take unnecessary offense as being asked, “where are you from?” Yes, I understand in some contexts, from some people, it can carry a subtext of “you don’t belong here in this country, and I wish you weren’t”. But by far the majority of the time, it’s a natural question regarding something that is a natural component of getting to know someone in a personal or social context. Growing up in NYC, it’s very multicultural and it’s generally assumed everyone is from somewhere else within at most 3 generations. How else would I know my Pakistani friends from my Indian ones, if I didn’t ask? Wait until Ramadan or Diwali to see if they showed up at school? (Besides which, I only even learned about Ramadan or Diwali from those selfsame friends.) And as far as being Asian (-American) goes, all Asians want to know “what kind of Asian are you” and aren’t shy about asking about it. It’s not offensive, unless of course it’s meant to be; just one of those things like “where’d you get that shirt?” ---
**Author:** ![lingyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d2c977/32.png) [@lingyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lingyi)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-you-see-meet-someone-do-you-subconsciously-consciously-make-a-note-of-their-nationality/837599/15 "2019-07-26T21:14:20Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > Racism is racism regardless of how many people around you do it. You seem to know this but want you to use the excuse ‘but everybody does it’ Yep, I must be racist along with the majority of locals in Hawaii and all us racists just hate each other so much! Even one of our beloved local songs _Mr. San Cho Lee_ is full of racial stereotypes: \* Mr San Cho Lee (Mr San Cho Lee), got plenty lychee Got plenty lychee, but he no give to me And he’s just one mean old Pake man Mr Conrad Jones (Mr Conrad Jones), got plenty swimming pool Got plenty swimming pool, but he no give to me And he’s just a mean old Haole man\* … and continues on. Oh wait! It ends with: _There is one thing I can say about this place All us guys we tease the other race It’s amazing we can live in the same place_ [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kS2YLvGGtwY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kS2YLvGGtwY) ---
**Author:** ![Staggerlee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/staggerlee/32/3134_2.png) [@Staggerlee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Staggerlee)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-you-see-meet-someone-do-you-subconsciously-consciously-make-a-note-of-their-nationality/837599/16 "2019-07-26T21:56:21Z")
I consciously notice a person’s nationality (as a Brit, usually European) but unless there’s a convenient national stereotype to hang it on, I quickly forget again. Czech people for instance - no idea what to assume. ---
**Author:** ![PoppaSan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/poppasan/32/189_2.png) [@PoppaSan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PoppaSan)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2019, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-you-see-meet-someone-do-you-subconsciously-consciously-make-a-note-of-their-nationality/837599/17 "2019-07-27T02:53:58Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > I don’t note nationality because I assume everybody I meet is american. Same here, at least until they open their mouth and I can be reasonably sure they weren’t raised around these parts. > [@](#): > > I do notice ethnicity, at least as far as broad categories go (black/asian/white/none-of-the-above), and then after noticing the person’s ethnicity proceed to walk right past the person and forget I ever saw them. They got nothin’ to do with me, no matter what they look like. Yep cause they all do look alike for me. As in I couldn’t tell a Ukraine from a Celt or a Korean from a Hmong. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2019, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-you-see-meet-someone-do-you-subconsciously-consciously-make-a-note-of-their-nationality/837599/18 "2019-07-27T14:07:51Z")
Today, I probably saw 300 to 500 people. Here’s a small sample: I noted: Taiwanese Taiwanese Taiwanese Taiwanese Taiwanese Taiwanese Taiwanese Taiwanese Taiwanese Taiwanese Taiwanese Taiwanese Taiwanese Taiwanese Taiwanese Taiwanese Taiwanese Taiwanese Taiwanese Taiwanese Some sort of white Taiwanese Taiwanese Taiwanese Taiwanese Taiwanese Taiwanese Taiwanese Taiwanese Taiwanese Taiwanese Taiwanese Taiwanese Taiwanese Taiwanese Taiwanese Taiwanese Taiwanese Taiwanese Taiwanese Taiwanese Some sort of Asian Well, the number of others is a little over represented, but you get the picture. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2019, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-you-see-meet-someone-do-you-subconsciously-consciously-make-a-note-of-their-nationality/837599/19 "2019-07-27T15:47:50Z")
Not only do I not notice, I dated a woman for months before I found out she wasn’t a US citizen. ---
**Author:** ![DorkVader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/73ab20/32.png) [@DorkVader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DorkVader)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2019, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-you-see-meet-someone-do-you-subconsciously-consciously-make-a-note-of-their-nationality/837599/20 "2019-07-27T16:03:03Z")
I do notice broad categories, such as white, black, latin brown/native american, asian/pacific islander, middle eastern/mediterranean/Indian/pakistani. It is a very low level thing for me, not subconscious, but pretty low awareness of the process. As someone said, it’s just part of the process of sorting and classifying people do to other people when they meet. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-you-see-meet-someone-do-you-subconsciously-consciously-make-a-note-of-their-nationality/837599.md?page=2)