# when your position is overrun and you call in an air strike? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 28, 2015, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-your-position-is-overrun-and-you-call-in-an-air-strike/736019 "2015-10-28T21:45:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2015, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-your-position-is-overrun-and-you-call-in-an-air-strike/736019/1 "2015-10-28T21:45:16Z")
I’ve seen it in a Vietnam era film, or two - your unit is totally overrun and the only hope is to hit the deep bunkers and call bombers or artillery to hit your own position. I don’t know if it ever happened in reality but is there a word or phrase that describes that situation, it would be a handy metaphor for something I have to do? ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2015, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-your-position-is-overrun-and-you-call-in-an-air-strike/736019/2 "2015-10-28T21:48:23Z")
I believe it is called, or has been called a “Broken Arrow” over the radio to call in CAS on your position in such a situation. Not sure if that is the phrase you are looking for tho. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2015, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-your-position-is-overrun-and-you-call-in-an-air-strike/736019/3 "2015-10-28T21:54:26Z")
> [@snfaulkner](#): > > I believe it is called, or has been called a “Broken Arrow” over the radio to call in CAS on your position in such a situation. Not sure if that is the phrase you are looking for tho. Yup the term was used during the [Battle of Ia Drang](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Ia_Drang): > [@](#): > > As the battle along the southern line intensified, Lieutenant Charlie W. Hastings (USAF liaison forward air controller), was instructed by Moore (based on criteria established by the USAF) to transmit the code phrase “Broken Arrow”, which relayed that an American combat unit was in danger of being overrun. In so doing, Hastings was calling on all available support aircraft in the country to come to the battalion’s defense, drawing on a significant arsenal of heavy ordnance support. On Charlie Company’s broken lines, PAVN troops walked the lines for several minutes, killing wounded Americans and stripping their bodies of weapons and other items. It was around this time, at 07:55, that Moore ordered his lines to throw colored smoke grenades over the lines to identify the battalion’s perimeter. Aerial fire support was then called in on the PAVN at close range – including those along Charlie Company’s lines. Shortly after, Moore’s command post was subjected to a friendly fire incident. Two F-100 Super Sabre jets approached X-Ray to drop napalm inadvertently on American lines. Seeing the approaching F-100’s about to drop their bombs dangerously close on the American positions, Hastings frantically radioed for the two jets to abort the attack and change course. The pilot of the second approaching F-100 complied and disengaged, but the ordnance from the first F-100 had already been dropped. Despite Hastings’ best efforts, several Americans were wounded and killed by this air strike The Israeli army has a similar concept known as the [Hannibal Directive](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hannibal_Directive): > [@](#): > > The purpose of the Hannibal directive is to prevent the capture of Israeli soldiers by enemy forces even if thereby risking their life. Israeli soldiers are ordered to stop a capture by force and to use any means available to this end. The controversial logic behind the order seems to be that a dead soldier is preferable to a captive one. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2015, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-your-position-is-overrun-and-you-call-in-an-air-strike/736019/4 "2015-10-28T22:06:05Z")
Thanks guys, that took 3 minutes. Pretty cool 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2015, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-your-position-is-overrun-and-you-call-in-an-air-strike/736019/5 "2015-10-28T22:06:32Z")
Broken Arrow was a code word designed to prioritize missions/assets in support of the unit in danger of being overrun. It didn’t necessarily say where those fires would be relative to the normal distance cushion for safety. If you want a mission within those distance, like right on top of you, it’s “danger close.” ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2015, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-your-position-is-overrun-and-you-call-in-an-air-strike/736019/6 "2015-10-28T22:41:29Z")
It could also be referred to as [Maxim 20](http://ovalkwiki.com/The+Seventy+Maxims+of+Maximally+Effective+Mercenaries): “If you’re not willing to shell your own position, you’re not willing to win”. ---
**Author:** ![chacoguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/50afbb/32.png) [@chacoguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chacoguy)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2015, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-your-position-is-overrun-and-you-call-in-an-air-strike/736019/7 "2015-10-28T23:28:56Z")
[Here’s a Youtube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gUSq7pxux4&index=1&list=WL) of an Australian unit that did just that. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2015, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-your-position-is-overrun-and-you-call-in-an-air-strike/736019/8 "2015-10-29T00:11:01Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > I don’t know if it ever happened in reality It has happened many times. Several people have received the Medal of Honor for doing this. John R. Fox and Brian Thacker are two great examples. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2015, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-your-position-is-overrun-and-you-call-in-an-air-strike/736019/9 "2015-10-29T00:43:50Z")
“Broken Arrow” was (and still is) used as a code word for certain nuclear weapons incidents. If you’re having a Broken Arrow event, the USA is having a bad day. > **[United States military nuclear incident terminology](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_military_nuclear_incident_terminology)** > > The United States Armed Forces uses a number of terms to define the magnitude and extent of nuclear and radiation accidents and incidents in order to reduce the time taken to report the type of incident, thus streamlining the radio communications in the wake of the event. > United States Department of Defense directive 5230.16, Nuclear Accident and Incident Public Affairs (PA) Guidance, Chairman Joint Chiefs of Staff Manual 3150.03B Joint Reporting Structure Event and Incident Reporting, and the... ---
**Author:** ![Fubaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Fubaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fubaya)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2015, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-your-position-is-overrun-and-you-call-in-an-air-strike/736019/10 "2015-10-29T00:46:38Z")
> [@DinoR](#): > > Broken Arrow was a code word designed to prioritize missions/assets in support of the unit in danger of being overrun. It didn’t necessarily say where those fires would be relative to the normal distance cushion for safety. If you want a mission within those distance, like right on top of you, it’s “danger close.” Technically, “[danger close](http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/6-30/f630_5.htm)” means that there are friendlies within 600 meters (or more for larger artillery) of the coordinates that you’re calling a strike on. You wouldn’t say “I need an airstrike, danger close” to have someone bomb your position, you’d say “I need an airstrike at coordinates X, danger close” to remind them to please do a good job and hit the target at X because if they miss, they’ll hit good guys. But, I can’t think of any phrase that means “fire on my position” and the public has taken “danger close” to mean that. It would probably work for the OP. As a bit of trivia… Apparently the last time a Broken Arrow was called was during the Battle of Ia Drang in 1965, but that’s not the last time a “we’re getting overran” call went out. 5th Special Forces and MACV-SOG had a different code word, “Prairie Fire\*,” which meant the same thing as Broken Arrow. I don’t know how many times it was used, but it wasn’t exactly rare with those guys because they liked to take like 8 dudes out and observe the enemy from an arms length away. In 1971, a Prairie Fire emergency happened to [two different teams](http://doubleprairiefireinlaos.blogspot.com/) in the same area on the same day. \*This can be confusing because MACV-SOG border hopping recon operations into Laos and Cambodia were also code named “Prairie Fire.” ---
**Author:** ![SpyOne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/82dd89/32.png) [@SpyOne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpyOne)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2015, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-your-position-is-overrun-and-you-call-in-an-air-strike/736019/11 "2015-10-29T14:09:00Z")
I swear I have seen this situation in a movie set in the Vietnam War. The base is being overrun by a night assault and the Colonel is on the radio calling in artillery to wipe out the enemy forces. We only hear his side of the conversation: “Yes, I am aware that those are my coordinates. I think that’s **my** call, don’t you?” the situation being described isn’t exactly the Ia Drang “Broken Arrow”. It’s isn’t a “Bring all the help you can or we’re screwed.” It’s more like “We’re all dead either way, so let’s try to take the bad guys with us.” It is calling in air strikes or artillery strikes _on your own position_ because that happens to be where the enemy forces are, and just maybe you can figure out a way to survive that but if not, it isn’t like you were going to survive anyway. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2015, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-your-position-is-overrun-and-you-call-in-an-air-strike/736019/12 "2015-10-29T15:05:57Z")
> [@SpyOne](#): > > I swear I have seen this situation in a movie set in the Vietnam War. Perhaps you’re thinking of [this scene from _Platoon_.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3V0gv0SASjg) At 1:43 into the clip, the Captain says “For the record, it’s my call. Dump everything you got left _on_ my pod.” ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2015, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-your-position-is-overrun-and-you-call-in-an-air-strike/736019/13 "2015-10-29T16:35:31Z")
I defer to anyone with more recent or better experience than myself, but … I wonder if “broken arrow” is or ever was actually a generally recognized code phrase meaning “fire on my position” or “we’re being overrun”. It may well have been used that way for one specific operation. And it sure could have been used in a movie or even two. But I doubt it was ever a general phrase. Anybody got a good cite, even to personal experience? ---
**Author:** ![waltaff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d2c977/32.png) [@waltaff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waltaff)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-your-position-is-overrun-and-you-call-in-an-air-strike/736019/14 "2016-06-06T13:40:45Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > I defer to anyone with more recent or better experience than myself, but … > > I wonder if “broken arrow” is or ever was actually a generally recognized code phrase meaning “fire on my position” or “we’re being overrun”. > > It may well have been used that way for one specific operation. And it sure could have been used in a movie or even two. > > But I doubt it was ever a general phrase. Anybody got a good cite, even to personal experience? When I was doing a research on [Vietnam War](http://jetwriters.com/vietnam-war-essay/), I checked out lots of forums just in case I could find some people talking from personal experience. And what I found out about broken arrow is that it was [established prior to WWII](https://www.quora.com/Is-the-radio-code-phrase-broken-arrow-an-actual-military-concept) and today is [used as a code word in Iraq](http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=836477). So based on these broken arrow code wasn’t used only in one occasion. I guess it became a general phrase long before Vietnam war. But still, I’m not sure how reliable these sources are. So, all in all what I just said is an assumption. ---
**Author:** ![txtumbleweed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/278dde/32.png) [@txtumbleweed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/txtumbleweed)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-your-position-is-overrun-and-you-call-in-an-air-strike/736019/15 "2016-06-06T15:34:37Z")
Thinking back to the movie, various books, and my own training. I think Danger Close is the call to cover dropping stuff on your own position. If you are having to shell your own position you likely aren’t observing niceties of normal call for fire procedures so whether that call is made or if it is more “I need mortars on my coordinates, NOW!” is open. “Broken Arrow” was more a general call that a unit was in danger and needed priority on all available air support. Col Moore wasn’t calling for fire on his positions, he needed aircraft to pound the enemy forces that were engaged or moving to engage him. He did not want ordinance dropped on his position and the only strike that hit his position was the friendly fire incident as depicted in the movie. These would have been considered “danger close” and that specific call would be made to alert everyone friendly troops were near the strike zones. There’s another line after that, Final Protective Fire (FPF) that is machine gun and mortar fire right at the edges of your own lines (say within 100 meters) to provide another curtain of bullets and shrapnel the enemy has to get through. We were taught those were all pre-planned fire coordinates with your artillery and mortar support. In addition, you’d give the platoon machine gunners pre-assigned sectors to sweep with fire regardless of seeing an enemy. That call is something like “Fire FPF!” After that, there’s the “it’s all gone to hell plan.” In the movie “We Were Soldiers,” that’s what B company 2nd platoon (the troops who chased the Vietnamese soldier into the brush and got cut off) has in place when they are essentially being overrun at night by Vietnamese soldiers moving through their position looking for them. It’s the last chance roll of the dice. With luck, you are dug-in (even a hasty, 6 inch deep position is going to help tremendously) or at least prone. People standing and moving make much better shrapnel catchers than folks hugging dirt so while your odds aren’t great, they are a hell of a lot better than not calling in fire. ---
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-your-position-is-overrun-and-you-call-in-an-air-strike/736019/16 "2016-06-07T00:39:33Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > It could also be referred to as [Maxim 20](http://ovalkwiki.com/The+Seventy+Maxims+of+Maximally+Effective+Mercenaries): “If you’re not willing to shell your own position, you’re not willing to win”. Ever watch the great Stanley Kubrick film _Paths of Glory_? Of course that situation was a tad different (a selfish & crazy WWI French general orders the shelling of his own trenches just to get the men to climb out and attack forward).