# Whence American exceptionalism? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 21, 2013, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whence-american-exceptionalism/653554 "2013-03-21T18:02:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whence-american-exceptionalism/653554/21 "2013-03-21T23:00:20Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > [Exceptional:](http://www.thefreedictionary.com/exceptional) > > 1. Being an exception; uncommon. > 2. Well above average; extraordinary: an exceptional memory. > 3. Deviating widely from a norm, as of physical or mental ability: > > [American exceptionalism](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_exceptionalism) as it is normally used includes definition #1 or #3 from the above, not #2. I only hear #2 nowadays. > [@An\_Gadai](#): > > Don’t most countries imagine themselves as exceptional? Probably. But they’re all wrong (except us) I can say this as an American exceptionalist. We’re special. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whence-american-exceptionalism/653554/22 "2013-03-21T23:49:18Z")
[QUOTE=Yookeroo] I only hear #2 nowadays. [/QUOTE] And the white van is always at the corner, of course… ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whence-american-exceptionalism/653554/23 "2013-03-22T00:49:15Z")
> [@Yookeroo](#): > > I only hear #2 nowadays. Here’s an example of #1 that I’ve seen cited around here recently: [American Homicide Exceptionalism](http://www.saf.org/lawreviews/polsbyandkates1.htm) > [@Yookeroo](#): > > Probably. But they’re all wrong (except us) I can say this as an American exceptionalist. We’re special. Assuming #2, of course. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whence-american-exceptionalism/653554/24 "2013-03-22T00:49:38Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > [Exceptional:](http://www.thefreedictionary.com/exceptional) > > 1. Being an exception; uncommon. > 2. Well above average; extraordinary: an exceptional memory. > 3. Deviating widely from a norm, as of physical or mental ability: Note that 3. can also be interepreted in the short-bus sense. ---
**Author:** ![kneegrow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@kneegrow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kneegrow)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whence-american-exceptionalism/653554/25 "2013-03-22T01:06:19Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > the history of the United States, with a wild frontier and violence having been used as a liberating rather than an oppressive force, I would rather say violence is being SOLD as a liberating force, but it has always BEEN an oppressing force. In the States, since the wild west era, there has been a sort of revival of feudalism, in the sense that rural communities have often been dominated by one family, or one group. This still happens today, but direct violence has been taken out of it. and it has been replaced by indirect violence, predominantly against the poor. Please do realize that both the law and the police were originally tools of the rich to keep the poor in line. ---
**Author:** ![kneegrow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@kneegrow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kneegrow)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whence-american-exceptionalism/653554/26 "2013-03-22T01:25:52Z")
American exceptionalism is as common as German exceptionalism, English exceptionalism, Russian exceptionalism, Chinese exceptionalism and so on All these cultures needed this concept of it self in order to justify their large scale genocides to themselves. “You can not go around killing Jews/nuking Iraqis/genociding Indians” “Well, we’re ALLOWED to do that because we’re exceptional Germans/American. says so right here in the Bible” See the movie Lincoln for an example. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whence-american-exceptionalism/653554/27 "2013-03-22T01:50:23Z")
> [@kneegrow](#): > > Please do realize that both the law and the police were originally tools of the rich to keep the poor in line. “It was a very great advance when the strong consented to eat the weak by due process of law.” – William Durant ---
**Author:** ![Ken001](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/43a26b/32.png) [@Ken001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ken001)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whence-american-exceptionalism/653554/28 "2013-03-22T03:28:59Z")
Why America is NOT the greatest country in the world. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/VMqcLUqYqrs/hqdefault.jpg "Why America is NOT the greatest country in the world, anymore.") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMqcLUqYqrs) ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whence-american-exceptionalism/653554/29 "2013-03-22T06:07:53Z")
There is really nothing ‘exceptional’ about the US – 'cept what many of its citizens (are made to) believe. Then again, it isn’t something new either. Every Alpha nation throughout history felt the same way. It just happens to be the US’s turn. And it’s coming to an end. Just like all the others… ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whence-american-exceptionalism/653554/30 "2013-03-22T06:19:07Z")
> [@Yookeroo](#): > > I only hear #2 nowadays. > > Probably. But they’re all wrong (except us) I can say this as an American exceptionalist. We’re special. Rokay I suppose. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![jimigorilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/edb3f5/32.png) [@jimigorilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimigorilla)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 8:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whence-american-exceptionalism/653554/31 "2013-03-22T08:58:35Z")
[QUOTE=Nationalism as we know it today is an 18th-century phenomenon.[/QUOTE] In Europe, at least as far as England and France are concerned, it probably goes back to the 100 Years War ( 1337-1453). The Dutch struggle for independence from Spain in the 16th and 17th century can also be interpreted as a form of nascent nationalism. So it is actually older than the 18th century, at least in Europe. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whence-american-exceptionalism/653554/32 "2013-03-22T11:33:39Z")
I think it’s rather silly to point to breaking away from Britain as proof of American exceptionalism. Were it not for French assistance, the revolution would have been a spectacular failure. The rise to become a superpower isn’t proof of any exceptional character, it’s more of a happy circumstance of being placed on a continent with great natural resources at the advent of the Industrial Revolution. The concept of exceptionalism is one of those patriotically correct expressions that we demand of each other. I recall a television interview with some woman whose house was destroyed by tornado or flood or something, and she said something inane like “of course we’ll rebuild, we’re Americans”. As if a European would have resigned herself to living in rubble the rest of her life. I would argue that the Constitution which so many regard as the product of infallible founders has outlived its usefulness and any claim to exceptionalism is null and void. We now have one political party that is determined to exert its will on the population, regardless of whether they are in the majority or minority. I’ve come to believe that the Westminster system is far superior, at least there the majority can actually get something done and the will of the people has some meaning. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whence-american-exceptionalism/653554/33 "2013-03-22T11:54:11Z")
> [@](#): > > **Dinsdale** : I often hear people talk disparagingly about Canada, or Scandinavia. I never hear anything negative about Canada. And I’ve spent enough time in Denmark to know that you don’t see homeless people curled up in cardboard boxes on the streets. They are extraordinarily proud of their health care system. No one has insurance because it isn’t needed. The healthcare is free. (That includes maternity hospitals and nursing care for the aged. On worldwide polls, they often rank at the top for “happiness.” Petrol is very expensive compared to ours, but nobody drives gas guzzlers. And if you want to go to the next town, the trains are so connvenient. They are taxed at about 40%, but everyone gets a month off from her or his job. Their form of government is a Constitutional Democracy. They also have the longest consistent monarchy line anywhere. Surely I love the United States. But we have a government that is on vacation while some veterans have been waiting almost two years for their benefits. Maybe our Congressional Representatives should bring their lap tops to the Veterans Administration and spend a week there helping out. Or maybe they should go to rehab to see if they can learn to understand that many, many people in Pine Ridge, South Dakota don’t have any way to keep themselves warm in winter. The houses are unheated and uninsulated. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whence-american-exceptionalism/653554/34 "2013-03-22T12:12:24Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > Don’t most countries imagine themselves as exceptional? My experience in many is that when they say “you only see this here!” it’s as a complaint, though. Those people who are saying they’ve never heard anything negative about Canada or Scandinavia: take a look at any thread on UHC in these boards. There have been other subjects, such as freedom or taxation, but I think that one is the most prolific. And while here the people saying negative things about Canada or Scandinavia are a minority, there’s many other places where they’re not. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whence-american-exceptionalism/653554/35 "2013-03-22T12:40:07Z")
I’m shocked to hear folk say they have never heard anyone (Americans) disparage Canada or Scandinavia. Canada is the most common butt of so many jokes, from Dudley Do-Right, through SCTV, to South Park. And we certainly want to avoid the best medical system money can buy resembling the horror that is Canada’s national health. And Scandinavians are godless socialists, which we all know is a bad thing. I’m going to have to be more aware of how the term is used - I strongly thought it was more of the “We’re No. 1” strain. And I’m always confused as to why Americans seem to think we are so awesome. Yes, we are incredibly rich, but on so many social measures - education, health, poverty - we pale compared to so many other developed nations. And don’t get me started on invading other nations… As far as the other definition of exceptional/unique, in my mind it almost equates to “lucky.” So often it impresses me as tho Americans feel that they and their ancestors have traits which are directly responsible for America’s current exalted position. Whereas I see it as largely a result of good fortune and amnesia regarding our past transgressions. Interesting thoughts. Please keep them coming. ---
**Author:** ![Learjeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/94ad74/32.png) [@Learjeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Learjeff)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whence-american-exceptionalism/653554/36 "2013-03-22T13:38:15Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > [Exceptional:](http://www.thefreedictionary.com/exceptional) > > 1. Being an exception; uncommon. > 2. Well above average; extraordinary: an exceptional memory. > 3. Deviating widely from a norm, as of physical or mental ability: > > [American exceptionalism](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_exceptionalism) as it is normally used includes definition #1 or #3 from the above, not #2. It doesn’t mean that America/Americans are superior to other nations/peoples, but that American/Americans differ from them in fundamental ways. > > To me, it’s a result of America’s unusual founding, not as an ethnic homeland, but as a newly-minted republic with Enlightenment ideals and a broad continent to conquer, and its history of success piled upon success. Good point, but even if it’s normally intended that way, I’m quite confident that the way the public hears it, #2 is at least included and likely predominates. PS: thanks for the DeToqueville quote! ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whence-american-exceptionalism/653554/37 "2013-03-22T13:39:22Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > I’m going to have to be more aware of how the term is used - I strongly thought it was more of the “We’re No. 1” strain. Another example of the “exceptional just means different” usage can be found in [_Is America Different?: A New Look At American Exceptionalism_](http://www.amazon.com/Is-America-Different-American-Exceptionalism/dp/0198277342) by Byron Shafer. Summary: > [@](#): > > “American exceptionalism” is the scholarly term for the common perception that there is something different about American life, stemming from the origins of the United States and its subsequent evolution, and marking it off from the experience of other developed nations. There is a long, rich, and varied argument about this perception, its reality, and its component elements. In Is America Different?, major scholars from the realms of history, politics, economics, and sociology return to the question in the light of changes in the last thirty years and debate an answer which is appropriate to our time. Politics, economics, religion, culture, education, and public policy receive particular attention in this debate, while a major introductory essay by Seymour Martin Lipset and a final integrating chapter by Byron E. Shafer isolate common themes and recurring disputes. Providing valuable insights into the dilemma of American exceptionalism, this book will interest scholars and students of American studies, American government, American history, politics, and sociology. Another is [_It Didn’t Happen Here: Why Socialism Failed In The United States_](http://www.amazon.com/Didnt-Happen-Here-Socialism-Failed/dp/0393322548/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1363959384&sr=1-1&keywords=it+didn%27t+happen+here+why+socialism+failed+in+the+united+states). Summary: > [@](#): > > Why socialism has failed to play a significant role in the United States—the most developed capitalist industrial society and hence, ostensibly, fertile ground for socialism—has been a critical question of American history and political development. Seymour Martin Lipset and Gary Marks “survey with subtlety and shrewd judgment the various explanations” (Wall Street Journal) for this phenomenon of American political exceptionalism. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whence-american-exceptionalism/653554/38 "2013-03-22T13:43:31Z")
> [@Learjeff](#): > > Good point, but even if it’s normally intended that way, I’m quite confident that the way the public hears it, #2 is at least included and likely predominates. Probably so. Language is a living, evolving thing, and people will interpret what they read and hear so as to [confirm what they already believe.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias) > [@Learjeff](#): > > PS: thanks for the DeToqueville quote! Which was actually fairly insulting, to my modern sensibilities. The charitable reading is that he meant that “America left the bullshit of Old Europe behind and just wants to be rich, peaceful, and happy”; the less charitable one is “Americans have no inner life and are almost barbaric.” ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whence-american-exceptionalism/653554/39 "2013-03-22T14:49:36Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > Don’t most countries imagine themselves as exceptional? Not Britain, though it may be (hee) exceptional in that regard. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whence-american-exceptionalism/653554/40 "2013-03-22T15:09:42Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Not Britain, though it may be (hee) exceptional in that regard. :dubious: _when Britain first by heaven’s command_… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whence-american-exceptionalism/653554.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whence-american-exceptionalism/653554.md?page=3)