# Whence the male and female symbols? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 11, 1999, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whence-the-male-and-female-symbols/9196 "1999-10-11T18:16:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 1999, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whence-the-male-and-female-symbols/9196/1 "1999-10-11T18:16:00Z")
Where did they come from? and how were they devised? I mean the male symbol, the circle with the diagonally-pointing arrow on the right, and the female symbol, the circle with the cross beneath it. Unless, for the male symbol, the meagning is self-evidently phallic (as I might concede). Whence come they? ---
**Author:** ![neuro-trash\_grrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/3ab097/32.png) [@neuro-trash\_grrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/neuro-trash_grrrl)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 1999, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whence-the-male-and-female-symbols/9196/2 "1999-10-11T18:20:00Z")
If I remember correctly, the male symbol is the spear and shield of Mars (or Ares), and the female symbol is the mirror of Venus (or Aphrodite). And thusly have the genders been portrayed since ancient times… * * * Modest? You bet I’m modest! I am the queen of modesty! ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 1999, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whence-the-male-and-female-symbols/9196/3 "1999-10-11T18:21:00Z")
Male: Originally symbol of Mars, god of war. The symbol is a shield and spear, representing his warlike nature. Female: Originally symbol for Venus, goddess of love. The symbol is a mirror, representing her beauty and vanity. (Which is why it always seemed weird to me that Women’s Lib picked that as a symbol.) Why is this in MIPSIMS? * * * * * * The Ai\ Yue- Ha FAQ: 1. Eye You-way Han 2. It’s Chinese. 3. The symbols are tone marks. 4. No, I wasn’t drunk when I registered. 5. Just call me John, OK? ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 1999, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whence-the-male-and-female-symbols/9196/4 "1999-10-11T18:22:00Z")
Dammit! I finally get to contribute, and there’s Neuro-trash grrl, posting while I compose… She’s always one step ahead of me. –John ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 1999, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whence-the-male-and-female-symbols/9196/5 "1999-10-11T18:31:00Z")
Thanks to both. I saw in _Laugh-In_ magazine in the late 60s a bio of Ruth Buzzi in which a large female symbol was used at the start–implying perhaps that she was quite a sensuous woman (and not a half-bad actress, either!) unlike Goldie Hawn, Judy Carne, JoAnne Worley, etc.–whose biographies in _Laugh-In_ magazine did _not_ have the female symbol. In other words, the symbol might imply of a partiucular woman that she is sensuous; and the Women’s Lib people have indeed picked an inappropriate symbol. (Objective feminists among the Teeming Millions are invited to correct me on this point. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![neuro-trash\_grrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/3ab097/32.png) [@neuro-trash\_grrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/neuro-trash_grrrl)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 1999, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whence-the-male-and-female-symbols/9196/6 "1999-10-11T18:35:00Z")
Well, as to why the mirror symbol has been adopted by the women’s lib movement I can’t say. My guess would be that it was adopted because it’s the most recognizable symbol for womanhood, and not a lot of thought was given as to its origin. Or alternatively, it was “appropriated” as a symbol of the male establishment’s portrayal of women, to be thrown right back in their faces. This might bear further research… ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 1999, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whence-the-male-and-female-symbols/9196/7 "1999-10-11T18:47:00Z")
So there’s some irony involved in it, huh? –and I kind of wondered about your spelling: Neuro-Trash _Grrrl_… ;)?? ---
**Author:** ![Frankie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/258eb7/32.png) [@Frankie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frankie)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 1999, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whence-the-male-and-female-symbols/9196/8 "1999-10-11T19:03:00Z")
Hey grrl (or other feminists)- COuld it also have been an attempt by feminists to take back the symbol? Kinda like the gay pride movements use of the word queer? Or the black youths use of the word Nigga? Just a thought -Frankie (who thinks he’s much smarter than he probably is!) ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 1999, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whence-the-male-and-female-symbols/9196/9 "1999-10-11T20:06:00Z")
Some truth to all of that, in terms of what they were _supposed_ to mean… but take a good look at them. Especially all you with the untrammeled libidos…you know who you are! 🙂 Now, tell me, what do they **really** represent? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 1999, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whence-the-male-and-female-symbols/9196/10 "1999-10-11T20:08:00Z")
Riddles are OUT. * * * “If you drive an automobile, please drive carefully–because I walk in my sleep.”–Victor Borge