# Whence the nams "Eire" and "Hibernia"?

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whence-the-nams-eire-and-hibernia/162608>\
**Category:** Factual Questions\
**Created:** [March 19, 2003, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whence-the-nams-eire-and-hibernia/162608 "2003-03-19T19:49:04Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 14\
**Page:** 1

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**Author:** ![toadspittle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c0e974/32.png) [@toadspittle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toadspittle)\
**Post date:** [March 19, 2003, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whence-the-nams-eire-and-hibernia/162608/1 "2003-03-19T19:49:04Z")

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So “Ireland” is derived from “Eire” … but what does “Eire” mean? (like “England” derives from “land of the Angles”, a tribe that settled there, and “America” is named after a mapmaker)

And what about the Latin “Hibernia”?

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**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\
**Post date:** [March 19, 2003, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whence-the-nams-eire-and-hibernia/162608/2 "2003-03-19T19:56:22Z")

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If this page is correct, the answer is “we don’t know.”

[http://92.1911encyclopedia.org/E/ER/ERIN.htm](http://92.1911encyclopedia.org/E/ER/ERIN.htm)

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**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\
**Post date:** [March 19, 2003, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whence-the-nams-eire-and-hibernia/162608/3 "2003-03-19T20:03:26Z")

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Here’s some reading on the subject:

[http://www.ucg.org/brp/materials/throne/11.html](http://www.ucg.org/brp/materials/throne/11.html)

> [@](#):
>
> \*\*Notes Microsoft Encarta: “Iberia, ancient name for both the Iberian Peninsula and the country lying between the Greater Caucasus and Armenia, approximately coextensive with present-day Georgia [which is south of Russia]” (“Iberia,” 1994). The Encyclopedia of Religions states: “The Iberes of the Caucasus were Georgians . . . In Sicily the Iberes were on the west . . . Spain was Iberia . . . [And the Roman historian] Tacitus speaks of Iberes in the west of England [in Cornwall], who may have come from Spain” (1964, Vol. 2, p. 259).
> 
> Why would Iberia be the name of places and people so far removed from each other? It is probably because the Israelites—the Hebrews—migrated through both Spain and the Caucasus and also went to Britain! Iber is almost identical with the name of Abraham’s ancestor Eber or Heber, father of the Hebrews (Genesis 11:15-16).
> 
> Furthermore, the name Hebrew appears to have taken on an added meaning. McClintock & Strong’s Encyclopedia of Biblical, Theological and Ecclesiastical Literature adds that the word came to mean “one of the other side, i.e. . . . immigrant” (Vol. 4, p. 128). Bible translator Ferrar Fenton noted that in 1 Samuel 4:6, “Eberim, if translated, means ‘Colonists’—a fit term to be used by the Philistines of the Israelites, who were really Colonists in Palestine.” And it would be a fit term for Israelite colonists in other lands to apply to themselves.
> 
> Considering the Hebrew migration through Spain, the name of the River Ebro there would appear to be of the same origin. And the same may go for Ireland—or at least one of its earlier names. The word Ireland derives from Eire-land—Eire being the nation’s Gaelic name. Traditionally, Ireland is also called Erin. The Romans called it Hibernia or Ivernia.
> 
> …
> 
> However, it should be noted that while Iber is a likely root for Iberiu and the Roman names Hibernia and Ivernia, it is possible that the particular names Erin and Eire derived from another source, as we will later see. In any case, there is still a strong identification with the Iberians of Spain.\*\*

[http://www.underbridge.com/scathan/archive/1998/04\_april/04.1998.scots.html](http://www.underbridge.com/scathan/archive/1998/04_april/04.1998.scots.html)

> [@](#):
>
> **In the 8th and 9th centuries, the Vikings began to refer to Ireland as Ir or Ire as they raided, traded, and sometimes settled in the Emerald Isle (they were the founders of Dublin, Limerick and Waterford). Scholars accept that Viking name as the origin of Eire, the present Gaelic name for the "Auld Sod."**

[http://92.1911encyclopedia.org/E/ER/ERIN.htm](http://92.1911encyclopedia.org/E/ER/ERIN.htm)

> [@](#):
>
> **ERIN, an ancient name for Ireland. The oldest form of the word is Eriu, of which Erinn is the dative case. Eriu was itself almost certainly a contraction from a still more primitive- form Iberiu or Iveriu; for when the name of the island was written in ancient Greek it appeared as ‘Iouepvih (Ivernia), and in Latin as Iberio, Hiberio or Hibernia, the first syllable of the word Eriu being thus represented in the classical languages by two distinct vowel sounds separated by b or v. Of the Latin variants, Iberio is the form found in the most ancient Irish MSS., such as the Coilfession of St Patrick, and the same saint’s Epistle to Coroticus. Further evidence to the same effect is found in the fact that the ancient Breton and Welsh names for Ireland were Ywerddon or Iverdon. In later Gaelic literature the primitive form Eriu became the dissyllable Eire; hence the Norsemen called the island the land of Eire, i.e. Ireland, the latter word being originally pronounced in three syllables. (See IRELAND: Notices of Ireland in Gi~eek and Roman writers.) Nothing is known as to the meaning of the word in any of its forms, and Whitley Stokes’s suggestion that it may have been connected with the Sanskrit avara, ‘meaning “western,” is admittedly no more than conjecture. There was, indeed, ‘ a native Irish legend, worthless from the standpoint of etymology, to account for the origin of the name. According to this myth there were three kings of the Dedannans reigning in Ireland at the coming of the Milesians, named MacColl, MacKecht and MacGrena. The wife of the first was Eire, and from her the name of the country was derived. Curiously, Ireland in ancient Erse poetry was often called “Fodla” or “Bauba,” and these were the wives of the other two kings in the legend.**

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**Author:** ![toadspittle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c0e974/32.png) [@toadspittle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toadspittle)\
**Post date:** [March 19, 2003, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whence-the-nams-eire-and-hibernia/162608/4 "2003-03-19T20:04:46Z")

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erm, “names”

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**Author:** ![slipster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@slipster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slipster)\
**Post date:** [March 20, 2003, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whence-the-nams-eire-and-hibernia/162608/5 "2003-03-20T00:10:38Z")

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Another explanation is that “Eire” derives from Eria, the name of an ancient Celtic goddess of fertility.

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**Author:** ![eburacum45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eburacum45/32/8690_2.png) [@eburacum45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eburacum45)\
**Post date:** [March 20, 2003, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whence-the-nams-eire-and-hibernia/162608/6 "2003-03-20T00:27:31Z")

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> [@](#):
>
> It is probably because the Israelites—the Hebrews—migrated through both Spain and the Caucasus and also went to Britain! Iber is almost identical with the name of Abraham’s ancestor Eber or Heber, father of the Hebrews (Genesis 11:15-16).

Er… this theory of ‘hebrews’ migrating up the west coast of Europe must be counted as a ‘fringe’ theory, eh?

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**Author:** ![micilin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8c91f0/32.png) [@micilin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/micilin)\
**Post date:** [March 20, 2003, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whence-the-nams-eire-and-hibernia/162608/7 "2003-03-20T01:20:17Z")

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I was taught the Romans came up with ‘Hibernia’, meaning - basically - Winterland. Y’know: as in ‘hibernate’ or the french ‘hiver’. Basically the Romans thought it was freezing here. Maybe ' **Hibernicus** will have a more informed opinion on the matter.

The whole ‘Hebrew =\> Iberia =\> Hibernia’ thing sounds - um - overly imaginative, though that 1911 encyclopaedia that was quoted gives a similar reasoning (including some wonderful OCR screwups) under its ‘Hibernia’ entry: [1911encyclopedia.org](http://84.1911encyclopedia.org/H/HI/HIBERNIA.htm)  
Having said that, I prefer etymological references to be a little less than 92 years old as a rule. 🙂

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**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\
**Post date:** [March 20, 2003, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whence-the-nams-eire-and-hibernia/162608/8 "2003-03-20T01:56:02Z")

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The Milesian legends, which suggest a migration from roughly the Caucasus to the Iberian Peninsula and then to Ireland, have gotten a lot of bad press, but may well represent dim memories of an original migration of some sort. The Hebrew stuff is the Irish variation on the local traditions almost everywhere in what used to be called Christendom that tie the local gentry back to Biblical characters – the princes of Powys in Wales, for example, claimed to be descended from the Virgin Mary’s brother; the Dalriadan Scots link to King Arthur’s Aunt Ana and thence back through a goofball link to a variety of Hebrew lines. It isn’t limited to Christians, either: Queen Elizabeth’s ancestors in the Wessex line link back to Odin; the Norse monarchs (and the Normans) connect to Freyr via early kings of Sweden.

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**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\
**Post date:** [March 20, 2003, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whence-the-nams-eire-and-hibernia/162608/9 "2003-03-20T02:48:42Z")

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For some reason, followers of the Goddess theories of achaeologist Marija Gambutas think that the connection is Eire = Aryan, but I can’t tell what makes them think this.

[http://www.beneaththeshades.co.uk/dracula.htm](http://www.beneaththeshades.co.uk/dracula.htm)

> [@](#):
>
> Aryan can be shown as derived from Eire-yann or the people of Ireland.

[http://users.cyberone.com.au/myers/gimbutas.html](http://users.cyberone.com.au/myers/gimbutas.html)

> [@](#):
>
> Apart from India, the Aryans also invaded Western Europe (from the steppes) and the Middle East. The word “Aryan” is today preserved in the names of the countries “Iran” and “Ireland”, i.e. “Eire” = “Aryan”, showing the extent of the conquest.

Gimbutas was a serious scholar, but she’s been dead for almost a decade and has amassed a strange following outside of scholarly circles.

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**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\
**Post date:** [March 20, 2003, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whence-the-nams-eire-and-hibernia/162608/10 "2003-03-20T07:01:00Z")

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The etymology of Eire \< Aryan seems obvious at first glance. After all, Iran and Ireland sit next to each other at the United Nations, don’t they? But it is not so. Also, the association of Hibernia with the Latin word for winter is what’s called a “folk etymology,” folks. The Romans added the H- in front because they thought that was the explanation. Also false. The original etymology for Ireland, Eire, and Hibernia is the ancient Celtic name **Iveriu** , according to the _American Heritage Dictionary_, 1st ed. My trusty old standby for etymology.

The Old Icelandic form of this name was _Irar_, from Old Irish _Eriu_. Interesting note: The _Barnhart Dictionary of Etymology_ says: “There is also evidence of some influence of Old French _irais, irois_ angry and _Irais, Irois_ Irish.” Sure, connect Ireland with ire and irate. The “Fighting Irish” will “get their Irish up” and have a “donnybrook” if they catch ye sayin’ that about them.

The name _Scot_ originally meant ‘Irish’. (Scotland didn’t get the name Scotland until Irish people moved to Caledonia from Ireland. It was called Scotland because of the Irish, i.e. “Scot” origin of the people.) Seaumus MacManus, in _Story of the Irish Race_, tells the ancient legend of the wanderings of the Milesians. How for a time they sojourned in ancient Egypt, getting into drunken brawls, until the Egyptians kicked them out. While there, their leader married Pharaoh’s daughter. Her name was Scota and so her descendants were called the Scots.

Now, my philological research has uncovered a possible nugget of truth in this hoary legend. As you know, the Ancient Egyptian written language recorded only consonants and left the vowels undefined. There was an Egyptian goddess, one of the principal deities in fact, named Sekhet. (In Egyptian, the -t is a feminine gender ending.) Actually, her name was recorded as SKhT. We don’t know what vowels her name had, and conventionally the e’s are inserted to make it pronounceable. The consonantal outline of **S** e **k** he **t** is practically identical with that in **Sc** o **t** a. I’m not claiming this is a proof-positive identification, but it does make the Irish-Egyptian connection look a bit more plausible.

Remember, you read it here first.

Jomo “Half Irish” Mojo

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**Author:** ![manwithaplan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f1d935/32.png) [@manwithaplan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manwithaplan)\
**Post date:** [March 20, 2003, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whence-the-nams-eire-and-hibernia/162608/11 "2003-03-20T11:59:19Z")

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I presume it’s the mojo half that’s Irish;).

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**Author:** ![elfje](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19b73/32.png) [@elfje](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfje)\
**Post date:** [March 20, 2003, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whence-the-nams-eire-and-hibernia/162608/12 "2003-03-20T12:10:35Z")

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Firbolgs - Ui Failge, Ui Bairrche, Ui Enachglais, etc. -  
The Euerni and later called Erainn (also known as Menapii, Bolgi, Belgae and Firbolgs) by annalists and historians, arrived after ??? BC. They called their new home Eueriio, which would later evolve through the old Irish Eriu to Eire, and from Eire to Ireland.  
The early annalists tell us that Firbolg people survived as distinct tribes well into early historical times. In Leinster, they were the Ui Failge, Ui Bairrche and Ui Enechglaiss to mention but a few.

Source: [http://www.thecore.com/let-ros/plavin/lavin.html](http://www.thecore.com/let-ros/plavin/lavin.html)

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**Author:** ![Dogface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@Dogface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogface)\
**Post date:** [March 20, 2003, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whence-the-nams-eire-and-hibernia/162608/13 "2003-03-20T14:26:44Z")

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> [@](#):
>
> _Originally posted by Exapno Mapcase (actually quoted from another source)_  
> \*\*Aryan can be shown as derived from Eire-yann or the people of Ireland. \*\*

Of course, this claim is really daft if one knows the least bit about the Irish language. The proposed suffix “-yann” isn’t Gaelic. “Irish Person” is “eirinnach”, not “eiri-yann”, and the “-nnach” is rather distinctly pronounced, with the second of the three syllables given no stress at all.

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**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\
**Post date:** [March 20, 2003, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whence-the-nams-eire-and-hibernia/162608/14 "2003-03-20T17:57:41Z")

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Yes, of course the claim is daft. What I don’t understand is why Goddess believers should be advocating this. I don’t think it comes from Gimbutas herself.