# Whence the overuse of the apostrophe? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 21, 2007, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whence-the-overuse-of-the-apostrophe/404960 "2007-05-21T19:08:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Geek\_Mecha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecae2f/32.png) [@Geek\_Mecha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Geek_Mecha)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2007, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whence-the-overuse-of-the-apostrophe/404960/21 "2007-05-22T19:57:43Z")
[QUOTE=Mindfield] Any other use that is not foreign in nature (“B’nai Brith,” “Hawai’i”) are traditionally incorrect. [/QUOTE] In the case of Hawai’i, the mark is an [ʻokina](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Okina), though it is often rendered as an apostrophe. Apostrophes have their tails facing down, and look like floating commas. The ʻokina’s tail faces up. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2007, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whence-the-overuse-of-the-apostrophe/404960/22 "2007-05-22T20:03:38Z")
Sure, the problem has always existed, but has never been ubiquitous until the last couple of decades, in which we’ve had the 1-2 punch of desktop publishing and the internet. It used to be that most of what we read was created by professional typesetters and printers, assisted by professional proofreaders. The only exceptions were personal correspondence and the writing of children or foreigners. We simply didn’t see words misspelled that often, so the correct spelling and punctuation was ingrained in our minds. Now, sadly, the incorrect ones are being ingrained. ---
**Author:** ![Ignatz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/3be4f8/32.png) [@Ignatz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ignatz)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2007, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whence-the-overuse-of-the-apostrophe/404960/23 "2007-05-23T23:10:23Z")
“It’s what makes a Subaru, a Subaru.” Oop’s ---
**Author:** ![SmackFu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/53a042/32.png) [@SmackFu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmackFu)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2007, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whence-the-overuse-of-the-apostrophe/404960/24 "2007-05-23T23:54:28Z")
But “it’s” is hard! My brain says it’s “it” with its possesive ending, but it’s not, since “its” is its own word. (Did I screw that up?) ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2007, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whence-the-overuse-of-the-apostrophe/404960/25 "2007-05-24T11:37:54Z")
[QUOTE=SmackFu] But “it’s” is hard! My brain says it’s “it” with its possesive ending, but it’s not, since “its” is its own word. [/QUOTE] No, just alway remember it’s not hi’s book nor he’r book, it’s its book. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2007, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whence-the-overuse-of-the-apostrophe/404960/26 "2007-05-24T12:56:26Z")
[QUOTE=Ignatz] “It’s what makes a Subaru, a Subaru.” Oop’s [/QUOTE] “It’s” is correct there. Have I been whoo’shed? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2007, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whence-the-overuse-of-the-apostrophe/404960/27 "2007-05-24T13:57:31Z")
It’s a part of the larger phenomenom of the modern generation creating its own “rules” about language, created largely because it’s so non-rule dependent. Texting, IMing, etc. rely upon a whole-language approach to the written word; it’s not how you spell it or grammarize it that is important, but, rather, whether its meaning is conveyed. And, of course, many of the generation in question have, in fact, been raised through the schools through a whole-language approach, which puts the emphasis upon creating with language over prescriptive rules right from the start. In a way, it’s a funny circle. Grammar and spelling rules were very lacking in formalized structure prior to the advent of the printing press. Now, as we move away again from printed materials to an electronic analog, language and its rules become less formal. ---
**Author:** ![Philster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/13edae/32.png) [@Philster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Philster)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2007, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whence-the-overuse-of-the-apostrophe/404960/28 "2007-05-24T14:43:36Z")
[QUOTE=Colophon] “It’s” is correct there. Have I been whoo’shed? 😕 [/QUOTE] You’ve been whooshed by a comma. It’s the comma, man. Or did the guy that write that Subaru tag line call himself the comma man? ---
**Author:** ![Quiddity\_Glomfuster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/c4cdca/32.png) [@Quiddity\_Glomfuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quiddity_Glomfuster)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2007, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whence-the-overuse-of-the-apostrophe/404960/29 "2007-05-24T15:05:14Z")
[QUOTE=acsenray] As has been noted on these boards before, the English have an odd habit of sticking an _s_ on the end of any company name. I know someone who worked for what used to be the law firm Sidley & Austin. Here in the United States, we might shorten that to “Sidley.” (“I’ve been at Sidley since 1998.”) But he always said “Sidleys.” Strange. [/QUOTE] Not so strange; I think the assumption is that the organization belongs to the named owner, so it is a possession belonging to Sidley, hence ‘Sidley’s’ (business). ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2007, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whence-the-overuse-of-the-apostrophe/404960/30 "2007-05-24T17:24:21Z")
[QUOTE=acsenray] As has been noted on these boards before, the English have an odd habit of sticking an _s_ on the end of any company name. I know someone who worked for what used to be the law firm Sidley & Austin. Here in the United States, we might shorten that to “Sidley.” (“I’ve been at Sidley since 1998.”) But he always said “Sidleys.” Strange. [/QUOTE] This is also a common phenomenon here in Chicago, at least in my neck of the city. A local food store, Jewel, is often called “Jewels.” “Aldi” becomes “Aldis,” As in, “I was over at Aldis to pick up some milk last night when you called.” To me, it sounds like it’s being used as a possessive, as there’s plenty of joints around here called “Nicky’s” and “Anthony’s” and “Jimmy’s” that the tendency is to extend this even to store names like Jewel and Aldi. Although, now that I think of it, I do believe people will use the definite article before the proper noun, so you’d get something like “I was over at the Jewels on 95th Street” or something like that. Personally, I use the additional “s” at random. Sometimes I say it, sometimes I don’t. I don’t know why. ---
**Author:** ![flight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbce88/32.png) [@flight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flight)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2007, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whence-the-overuse-of-the-apostrophe/404960/31 "2007-05-24T17:34:01Z")
[QUOTE=RealityChuck] Nothing is a good thread to recommend that. Not only is it filled with misinformation (I found a gross error in the first page I read\*), but it is useless as a guide to anything, since you can’t find any of her “rules” without reading each chapter over. And many of the “rules” she mentions have never appeared except in Lynn Truss’s imagination. It’s basically an Old Fart whining that kids don’t have respect these days – and stay off my lawn! If you want a grammar guide, get Karen Elizabeth Gordon’s [\*She said that Lands’ End misuses the apostrophe without apology, yet the company has said countless times that, [url=[http://tinyurl.com/34k6v2](http://tinyurl.com/34k6v2)]yes, it is an error]([The Deluxe Transitive Vampire: The Ultimate Handbook of Grammar for the Innocent, the Eager, and the Doomed: Gordon, Karen Elizabeth: 9780679418603: Amazon.com: Books](http://www.amazon.com/Deluxe-Transitive-Vampire-Handbook-Innocent/dp/0679418601)[The Transitive Vampire[/url), but they had already printed the catalog and were stuck with it. [/QUOTE] I have argued about this book with **Lissener** , and while I agree about the Old Fart thing, the only solid criticisms I have seen of the book come from differences in American and British English, particularly in the use of the semicolon. Even in the error you report she is correct in her grammar, just not in Lands’ End’s response. By the way, had they admitted that by the time of her first printing? ---
**Author:** ![flight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbce88/32.png) [@flight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flight)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2007, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whence-the-overuse-of-the-apostrophe/404960/32 "2007-05-24T17:41:37Z")
Oh, and while we are arguing apostrophe use, here is a question for you. I work with military people with whom overuse of acronyms is endemic. Many of these act as verbs, ones for which I occasionally need a past participle. As many times people know the acronym but have forgotten what it actually stands for, I unable to write out what it stands for in order to preserve clarity. So, what is the past participle of NDE? We need to NDE that piece soon. No, that’s OK, we NDE[-ed, -d, 'd?] it yesterday. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2007, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whence-the-overuse-of-the-apostrophe/404960/33 "2007-05-24T18:13:47Z")
[QUOTE=flight] differences in American and British English, particularly in the use of the semicolon. [/QUOTE] I had no idea that standard American and British differed with respect to the semicolon. ---
**Author:** ![Ignatz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/3be4f8/32.png) [@Ignatz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ignatz)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2007, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whence-the-overuse-of-the-apostrophe/404960/34 "2007-05-24T23:22:11Z")
Originally Posted by Colophon “It’s” is correct there. Have I been whoo’shed? [QUOTE=Philster] You’ve been whooshed by a comma. It’s the comma, man. Or did the guy that write that Subaru tag line call himself the comma man? [/QUOTE] **Colophon** : And by the “Oop’s” **Ignatz** ---
**Author:** ![flight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbce88/32.png) [@flight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flight)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2007, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whence-the-overuse-of-the-apostrophe/404960/35 "2007-05-25T14:20:09Z")
[QUOTE=acsenray] I had no idea that standard American and British differed with respect to the semicolon. [/QUOTE] I was surprised as well, but apparently American English went through a standardization for its use (like you’d ever know that by seeing how people use it) that never occurred in England. ---
**Author:** ![flight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbce88/32.png) [@flight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flight)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2007, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whence-the-overuse-of-the-apostrophe/404960/36 "2007-05-25T14:30:26Z")
OK, now I am having trouble finding a good reference for that statement. I don’t think I am misremembering though. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2007, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whence-the-overuse-of-the-apostrophe/404960/37 "2007-05-25T15:45:07Z")
Maybe that would account for all the comma splices that J. K. Rowling uses in the Harry Potter books. I could hardly get through them without my brain screaming _semicolon_ every few minutes. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2007, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whence-the-overuse-of-the-apostrophe/404960/38 "2007-05-25T16:42:16Z")
When I joined the Army, their rule was to use _'s_ to pluralize acronyms (ICBM, ICBM’s) but changed that rule shortly afterwards (ICBM, ICBMs). There’s also the issue of [hypercorrection](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypercorrection). Hypercorrection is also why so many people make the mistake of using _X and I_ as a plural object and say things such as _Return the form to X or myself_. ---
**Author:** ![Miscue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8491ac/32.png) [@Miscue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miscue)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2007, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whence-the-overuse-of-the-apostrophe/404960/39 "2007-05-25T18:05:14Z")
I seem to recall Strunk and White’s guide stated the usage of apostrophes with acronyms was a matter of preference (which shocked me at the time), but can’t find my copy at the moment. ---
**Author:** ![flight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbce88/32.png) [@flight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flight)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2007, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whence-the-overuse-of-the-apostrophe/404960/40 "2007-05-25T20:14:44Z")
[QUOTE=Miscue] I seem to recall Strunk and White’s guide stated the usage of apostrophes with acronyms was a matter of preference (which shocked me at the time), but can’t find my copy at the moment. [/QUOTE] Yeah, but I think that is for pluralization. I have never heard a rule for past participilization. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whence-the-overuse-of-the-apostrophe/404960.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whence-the-overuse-of-the-apostrophe/404960.md?page=3)