# Where and when did the "scary little girl" thing originate? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 24, 2006, 9:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-and-when-did-the-scary-little-girl-thing-originate/373928 "2006-09-24T09:57:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2006, 9:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-and-when-did-the-scary-little-girl-thing-originate/373928/1 "2006-09-24T09:57:39Z")
Maybe this thread belongs in Cafe Society, since it mostly concerns movies (and video games,) but it seems like something that probably has roots in some kind of folk culture, so it might belong here too. Mods, it’s your call. Anyway, the question: what is the origin of the “evil, scary little girl” thing? You know the one I mean. I absolutely loathe the whole cliche, I’m sick of seeing it in horror movies, I don’t find little girls to be scary at all, and I wrote a whole [essay about it](http://www.geocities.com/argenttowers/scary.html) on my website which you can feel free to read if you have the time or the interest. But that’s beside the point - what I am wondering is, WHERE did this device originate? I’ll list some of the movies I’m talking about: Ring. Ring II. Dark Water. Grudge. Amityville Horror. The video game FEAR and apparently the upcoming Bioshock. It seems to be a Japanese thing. It certainly doesn’t appear in many American horror movies - Americans seem to prefer slashers. We like Freddy Krueger, Jason, Leatherface, and other large, intimidating, violent male villains in our horror films. But the Japanese seem to be more into ghosts and other supernatural spooks. Is there some kind of ancient Japanese folk tradition that involves evil little girls with big vacant eyes that is the ancestor of this staple of modern horror? ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2006, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-and-when-did-the-scary-little-girl-thing-originate/373928/2 "2006-09-24T10:21:29Z")
I know there were the two creepy girls in the Shining movie and there was an old English movie that had creepy school children who were psychics or something (it was B&W can’t remember the name). In the Omen there was a creepy boy, and from there derivative writers could come up with a creepy little girl for an exciting twist. I think its effect comes from tapping finding something sinister in something that is supposed to be wholesome and sweet. I agree with you, whatever creepiness the image ever had is officially played out. ---
**Author:** ![Mater\_Sammich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47774/32.png) [@Mater\_Sammich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mater_Sammich)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2006, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-and-when-did-the-scary-little-girl-thing-originate/373928/3 "2006-09-24T10:35:14Z")
The first creepy little girl I can remember seeing was in a 1956 movie, “The Bad Seed”. [The Bad Seed (1956) - IMDb](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0048977/) The little girl was a murderess. It really creeped me out the first time I saw it on late-night TV. ---
**Author:** ![Chez\_Guevara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/aeb1de/32.png) [@Chez\_Guevara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chez_Guevara)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2006, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-and-when-did-the-scary-little-girl-thing-originate/373928/4 "2006-09-24T11:19:30Z")
[QUOTE=madmonk28] …there was an old English movie that had creepy school children who were psychics or something (it was B&W can’t remember the name). [/QUOTE] Possibly [Village of the Damned](http://www.scifilm.org/reviews2/villagedamned.html), based on the John Wyndam’s novel _the Midwich Cuckoos_. ---
**Author:** ![Rico](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rico/32/3582_2.png) [@Rico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rico)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2006, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-and-when-did-the-scary-little-girl-thing-originate/373928/5 "2006-09-24T12:21:57Z")
\ Yep, Cafe Society. I’ll just ask this little girl to move it over there for you. BWA-HA-HAAA! \ ---
**Author:** ![mittu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecd19e/32.png) [@mittu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mittu)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2006, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-and-when-did-the-scary-little-girl-thing-originate/373928/6 "2006-09-24T12:27:20Z")
There’s also Children of the Corn though that film isn’t as old as others mentioned. From searching about a bit on Wikipedia I found an article on [Yūrei](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y%C5%ABrei) which are Japanese ghosts that are often depicted as wearing white robes with long black hair and lifeless dangling limbs. The article links to another page on the [Zashiki-warashi](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zashiki-warashi) which are the ghosts of children in Japanese culture. I doubt that they are the inspiration for such movies however as they are thought to bring good fortune to the homes they haunt. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2006, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-and-when-did-the-scary-little-girl-thing-originate/373928/7 "2006-09-24T13:47:20Z")
[QUOTE=Chez Guevara] Possibly [Village of the Damned](http://www.scifilm.org/reviews2/villagedamned.html), based on the John Wyndam’s novel _the Midwich Cuckoos_. [/QUOTE] Nahhhhhh…he means [The Innocents](http://imdb.com/title/tt0055018/), based on Hanry James _Turn of the Screw_. It was the little _boy_ who was freaky in that one, though – also the dead governess, floating among the reeds… Damn good spooky movie, even though there are really only two apparitions in it. ---
**Author:** ![DrMemory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@DrMemory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrMemory)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2006, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-and-when-did-the-scary-little-girl-thing-originate/373928/8 "2006-09-24T13:56:35Z")
Let us not forget Wednesday Addams ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2006, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-and-when-did-the-scary-little-girl-thing-originate/373928/9 "2006-09-24T14:43:01Z")
You don’t have daughters, do you? ---
**Author:** ![Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/bc8723/32.png) [@Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unauthorized_Cinnamon)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2006, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-and-when-did-the-scary-little-girl-thing-originate/373928/10 "2006-09-24T14:43:58Z")
I think at some point, people just got used to scary stories with big, ugly, scary-looking men, or gory, wailing corpses, or whatnot as the monster. It became predictable and trite. So (probably in several independent instances), people got an idea: wouldn’t it be really freaking scary if the monster was someone you would never expect? And what could be worse than a monster who appeared harmless and vulnerable, a monster you would welcome into your home and try to protect? And what appears more harmless and vulnerable than a little girl? The earliest instance I can think of is _The Turn of the Screw_, though a lot of that is ambiguous - the kids might be totally innocent. The definitive case is _The Bad Seed_. The girl couldn’t be more stereotypically adorable - blond braids, knee socks and all. Now, little brunette girls with hair hanging in their faces, who travel by eerie jump-cut - that seems to be a Japanese thing. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2006, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-and-when-did-the-scary-little-girl-thing-originate/373928/11 "2006-09-24T16:11:12Z")
[QUOTE=Unauthorized Cinnamon] I think at some point, people just got used to scary stories with big, ugly, scary-looking men, or gory, wailing corpses, or whatnot as the monster. It became predictable and trite. So (probably in several independent instances), people got an idea: wouldn’t it be really freaking scary if the monster was someone you would never expect? And what could be worse than a monster who appeared harmless and vulnerable, a monster you would welcome into your home and try to protect? And what appears more harmless and vulnerable than a little girl? The earliest instance I can think of is _The Turn of the Screw_, though a lot of that is ambiguous - the kids might be totally innocent. The definitive case is _The Bad Seed_. The girl couldn’t be more stereotypically adorable - blond braids, knee socks and all. Now, little brunette girls with hair hanging in their faces, who travel by eerie jump-cut - that seems to be a Japanese thing. [/QUOTE] Exactly-it’s the “Aw, she’s so cute and sweet looking, we can trust her, right?” ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_Pageant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3ab097/32.png) [@Silver\_Pageant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_Pageant)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2006, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-and-when-did-the-scary-little-girl-thing-originate/373928/12 "2006-09-24T16:35:16Z")
[QUOTE=Guinastasia] Exactly-it’s the “Aw, she’s so cute and sweet looking, we can trust her, right?” [/QUOTE] I don’t think that’s entirely it, because a lot of the newer scary girls are repulsive - the girl from the Ring series is a walking bag of old asparagus - and the girl from Children of the Corn may not look repulsive, but her mannerisms and the way they frame her in the movie are creepy from the beginning. Tons of horror movie villains are getting revenge for something that happened to them, or grew up in a twisted society, but I think an evil little girl or boy suggests a really basic, complete evil, evil that has taken over before even basic childhood assumptions about the world have set in. The It’s Alive series, especially the first one (one of my favorite horror movies, but all of the sequels are really good too) does this really well with the evil killer baby. It also reaches for the opposite - characters that try to take pity on and trust a disgusting, murderous infant. ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2006, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-and-when-did-the-scary-little-girl-thing-originate/373928/13 "2006-09-24T17:02:36Z")
Part of what makes Jason or leatherface scary is they can’t be reasoned with or even understood, their motive don’t make sense. Children can be made to fit this profile easily. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2006, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-and-when-did-the-scary-little-girl-thing-originate/373928/14 "2006-09-24T17:15:29Z")
[QUOTE=Silver Pageant] I don’t think that’s entirely it, because a lot of the newer scary girls are repulsive - the girl from the Ring series is a walking bag of old asparagus - [/QUOTE] Except that she didn’t look like that for most of the movie-you didn’t see her all shrivelled up until the very end. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2006, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-and-when-did-the-scary-little-girl-thing-originate/373928/15 "2006-09-24T18:07:34Z")
I came into this thread thinking of Bioshock. The designer says in the video that you can either kill them or help/exploit them. I think we know what the initial reaction will be. Wednesday Addams is really not scary at all. I remember thinking she was cute when I was a kid. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2006, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-and-when-did-the-scary-little-girl-thing-originate/373928/16 "2006-09-24T18:23:52Z")
[QUOTE=Guinastasia] Except that she didn’t look like that for most of the movie-you didn’t see her all shrivelled up until the very end. [/QUOTE] She still looks freaky from the first time you see her. The hair in front of the face, dark-ringed eyes, monotone voice, pale skin, etc. Not exactly someone you’d love to hug. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2006, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-and-when-did-the-scary-little-girl-thing-originate/373928/17 "2006-09-24T18:26:09Z")
I’m surprised that nobody has yet mentioned _The Exorcist_ or _Poltergeist_. I’m sure they weren’t the first, but they seem to have been the movies which firmly established the cliche in the mainstream of American movies. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_Pageant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3ab097/32.png) [@Silver\_Pageant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_Pageant)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2006, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-and-when-did-the-scary-little-girl-thing-originate/373928/18 "2006-09-24T18:39:04Z")
[QUOTE=Guinastasia] Except that she didn’t look like that for most of the movie-you didn’t see her all shrivelled up until the very end. [/QUOTE] Huh? What about the various action scenes where you see glimpses of her as zombiegirl? ---
**Author:** ![jackelope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a6a055/32.png) [@jackelope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackelope)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2006, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-and-when-did-the-scary-little-girl-thing-originate/373928/19 "2006-09-24T19:25:44Z")
[QUOTE=outlierrn] Part of what makes Jason or leatherface scary is they can’t be reasoned with or even understood, their motive don’t make sense. Children can be made to fit this profile easily. [/QUOTE] This is an excellent point. BTW, my wife is a serious fan and historian of horror movies; I’ll ask her what’s the origin of the creepy-little-girl thing and get back to y’all. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_Pageant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3ab097/32.png) [@Silver\_Pageant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_Pageant)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2006, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-and-when-did-the-scary-little-girl-thing-originate/373928/20 "2006-09-24T19:32:17Z")
[QUOTE=jackelope] This is an excellent point. BTW, my wife is a serious fan and historian of horror movies; I’ll ask her what’s the origin of the creepy-little-girl thing and get back to y’all. [/QUOTE] Ask her if she’s seen It’s Alive. Seriously, most underrated b-movie. Larry Cohen is amaaazing. Also: Good point, **outlierrn**. Spot-on, except that I would make the addition that creepy kids have the edge on monsters, because they can be both monstrous and completely human (and even really cute). [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-and-when-did-the-scary-little-girl-thing-originate/373928.md?page=2)