# Where are all of the people with two middle names? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 6, 2018, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-of-the-people-with-two-middle-names/805989 "2018-01-06T17:47:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2018, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-of-the-people-with-two-middle-names/805989/41 "2018-01-08T03:25:34Z")
Both my sons have my first name as their first middle name, and a name my wife chose as their second middle name. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2018, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-of-the-people-with-two-middle-names/805989/42 "2018-01-08T03:47:12Z")
Both my brothers and I have two middle names. Neither of my parents do, nor do any other relatives I know of. (American, born in Illinois in 1984.) ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2018, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-of-the-people-with-two-middle-names/805989/43 "2018-01-08T03:54:34Z")
“Brian Peter George St John le Baptiste de la Salle Eno, RDI (/ˈiːnoʊ/; born 15 May 1948 and originally christened Brian Peter George Eno) is an English musician, composer, record producer, singer, writer, and visual artist.” ---
**Author:** ![Clothes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b5e925/32.png) [@Clothes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothes)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2018, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-of-the-people-with-two-middle-names/805989/44 "2018-01-08T03:57:35Z")
Aw, make y’self scarce, ‘Two Sheds’! ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2018, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-of-the-people-with-two-middle-names/805989/45 "2018-01-08T05:49:10Z")
I have 2 middle names, so does my brother. Given at birth. But then, my parents were English. My first name is my (paternal) grandfather’s name. Not sure where the others came from. I have a confirmation name, but if I used it then it would mean I have 3 middle names. My brother’s second middle name is my father’s name (he is the first son). However, his first name was apparently after a friend of my mother’s, so my step-mother (who had her own problems) tried to get him to change his name when he was about 10. Instead, he ended up using his first middle name, and I don’t think many of his acquaintances after about grade 6 realized that was not his first name. Still have no idea who he is named after… Second middle name only became a problem about 3 months ago, when I first had to fill out a security clearance form for a prospective job. I’ve always only used the first middle name. Application said to use full name and provide photocopy of 3 pieces of government ID that matched that name exactly. So I did not use my birth certificate, and did not tell them my other middle name - passport, driver’s license, an health card only list first middle name. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2018, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-of-the-people-with-two-middle-names/805989/46 "2018-01-08T07:13:28Z")
> [@APB](#): > > That sounds a very garbled version of the oft-told anecdote that the Queen herself seemed a bit surprised that her private secretary, Martin Charteris, should have asked the question at all. That could well be. The story as you’ve just told it, was a part of the story as I had read it somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![ioioio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ioioio/32/316_2.png) [@ioioio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ioioio)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2018, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-of-the-people-with-two-middle-names/805989/47 "2018-01-08T07:49:23Z")
I have two middle names, but I did it to myself when I legally changed my name as an adult. I wanted to get rid of a hated bizarre first name but keep my initials (family tradition) and my original middle name (beloved grandmother). So the nickname I go by became my legal first middle name. If I had it to do over again, I’d probably do it differently Going by a middle name is a PITA in doctor’s offices and hospitals. Others, even the government, are able to deal with it, but not doctors’ staffs. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2018, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-of-the-people-with-two-middle-names/805989/48 "2018-01-08T11:15:57Z")
> [@dolphinboy](#): > > While two middle names may not just be a UK thing, it’s certainly more common in the UK than the US for whatever reason. Three initials look classier on the cricket and rugby team lists. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2018, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-of-the-people-with-two-middle-names/805989/49 "2018-01-08T14:26:31Z")
As is shown by that famous cricket (or is it rugby?) player J. R. R. Tolkien. I think it’s more common to use two or three initials instead of using any first or middle names in the U.K. than it is in the U.S. J. R. R. Tolkien, C. S. Lewis, J. M. W. Turner, D. H. Lawrence, G. K. Chesterton, P. G. Wodehouse, H. G. Wells, C. S. Forester, A. A. Milne, J. K. Rowling, A. J. Ayers, and A. J. P. Taylor are some examples. It’s apparently more common in the arts and in academia, as far as I can tell. On the other hand, it’s more common in the U.S. than in the U.K. for someone to be known by their first name and a middle initial, as in Samuel L. Jackson, George C. Scott, Philip K. Dick, Ulysses S. Grant, Harry S. Truman, and Michael J. Fox. Yes, I’m aware that it’s standard in the U.K. to not use periods (i.e., full stops) after the letter of the initial. Yes, I’m aware that some of these middle initials were made up when the person entered their profession and needed an initial. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2018, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-of-the-people-with-two-middle-names/805989/50 "2018-01-08T15:04:14Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > As is shown by that famous cricket (or is it rugby?) player J. R. R. Tolkien. I think it’s more common to use two or three initials instead of using any first or middle names in the U.K. than it is in the U.S. J. R. R. Tolkien, C. S. Lewis, J. M. W. Turner, D. H. Lawrence, G. K. Chesterton, P. G. Wodehouse, H. G. Wells, C. S. Forester, A. A. Milne, J. K. Rowling, A. J. Ayers, and A. J. P. Taylor are some examples. It’s apparently more common in the arts and in academia, as far as I can tell. \ Yes, I’m aware that it’s standard in the U.K. to not use periods (i.e., full stops) after the letter of the initial. Lewis was Irish, FYI. It’s not that it’s more common in the arts; it’s that prominent Britons outside the arts are less likely to be well-known to Americans. [H. H. Asquith](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H._H._Asquith), for example, was definitely not an artist or academic. Not sure where you got the idea that in British usage the full stops/periods aren’t used after the initials. > [@Chefguy](#): > > I like the tradition, but in my case both middle names would be William. Could be [worse](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leone_Sextus_Tollemache). ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2018, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-of-the-people-with-two-middle-names/805989/51 "2018-01-08T15:13:28Z")
It’s well known that periods often aren’t used after initials, abbreviations, etc. in the U.K.: > **[Why no periods in UK and U.S. requires them?](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=615663)** > > U.S. is properly written with periods because it is initials for United States. like the U.S. State Department uses it. Lazy people often omit the periods in U.S. My English teacher loved docking points for this slip up. 😃 But UK doesn’t seem... Lewis was born in Northern Ireland and lived from adolescence on in England. ---
**Author:** ![Randolph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Randolph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Randolph)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2018, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-of-the-people-with-two-middle-names/805989/52 "2018-01-08T15:29:40Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > On the other hand, it’s more common in the U.S. than in the U.K. for someone to be known by their first name and a middle initial, as in … Harry S. Truman Just as a pendantic note (this **is** the Straight Dope), Truman’s a special case, as his middle name - not his middle initial, his middle _name_, is S. They didn’t want to piss off either of his grandfathers (Solomon, Shipp), so that was the compromise. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2018, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-of-the-people-with-two-middle-names/805989/53 "2018-01-08T18:01:01Z")
Ulysses S. Grant is a special case, too, as his middle name _was_ Ulysses. The “S.” was just a typo that stuck because it made his initials “U.S.”. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2018, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-of-the-people-with-two-middle-names/805989/54 "2018-01-08T19:00:51Z")
> [@Randolph](#): > > Just as a pendantic note (this **is** the Straight Dope), Truman’s a special case, as his middle name - not his middle initial, his middle _name_, is S. They didn’t want to piss off either of his grandfathers (Solomon, Shipp), so that was the compromise. So his middle name is “S” and I presume the abbreviation “S.” is valid too? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2018, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-of-the-people-with-two-middle-names/805989/55 "2018-01-08T19:06:02Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > It’s well known that periods often aren’t used after initials, abbreviations, etc. in the U.K.: > > [Why no periods in UK and U.S. requires them? - Factual Questions - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=615663) > > Lewis was born in Northern Ireland and lived from adolescence on in England. They’re sometimes not used, just as in the US we sometimes write “AM” instead of “a.m.” [Here](https://i.pinimg.com/736x/17/a6/d8/17a6d8c4b420922cafdc50d32f9673f5--p-g-wodehouse.jpg), for example, is the cover of the UK paperback of Wodehouse’s _Pearls, Girls & Monty Bodkin_,\* which as you’ll note includes two dots. Lewis was born in Ireland; there wasn’t a Northern Ireland in 1898. Admittedly, Ireland was technically part of the UK, but it had (and still has) its own very distinct culture, grammar and syntax. He also wrote a book that was half about how uncomfortable he was in England. \*which is, incidentally, the best short novel ever written. Fact. ---
**Author:** ![Randolph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Randolph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Randolph)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2018, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-of-the-people-with-two-middle-names/805989/56 "2018-01-08T19:34:03Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > So his middle name is “S” and I presume the abbreviation “S.” is valid too? Pretty much, considering [Truman himself](https://www.trumanlibrary.org/speriod.htm) used a period in his signature. The _U.S. Government Printing Office Style Manual_ (or, as I like to call it, the _US Government Printing Office Style Manual_) says to use the period, too. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2018, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-of-the-people-with-two-middle-names/805989/57 "2018-01-08T20:24:23Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > So his middle name is “S” and I presume the abbreviation “S.” is valid too? A friend’s middle name is M and she has had to have documents redone to remove periods. [quote=UDS] We don’t have “legal names” in Ireland. Your name is a matter of fact, not law. If people call you “nelliebly”, then that’s you name - that what the word ‘name’ means, after all. If it says “Eleanor” on your birth certificate and some people call you that, that’s also your name. There’s no rule that says you can only have the one name.[/UDS] I had my full name, including confirmation name, put on my diplomas. I’m guessing it’s not legal though. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2018, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-of-the-people-with-two-middle-names/805989/58 "2018-01-08T21:50:12Z")
> [@dolphinboy](#): > > I was watching the movie “Robin Hood: Men in Tights”, a very funny movie, but mods this thread is not about the movie. It stars the actor Cary Elwes. I looked Cary up in Wikipedia and his full name is Ivan Simon Cary Elwes. He was born in London in 1962. > > I have read about English people with two middle names, and I always thought it was related somehow to the Church of England, but I haven’t noticed it recently except for royal princes. It seems this practice never caught on in the US. > > Does this naming convention still go on today in the UK? Perhaps the apparent decline has to do with the drop in popularity of church-goers. or perhaps it still happens as it always has and I just haven’t noticed it lately, except for royalty of course. > > So are extra middle names still as popular in England as they always have been or are they less common for some reason? There isn’t a decline in this in the UK, but the opposite. [11% of children are now given two middle names.](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2515376/Middle-names-booming-80-children-given-parents-chosen-honour-lost-relatives.html) Of my 19-year-old daughter’s friends whose middle names I know they all have at least two (one has five middle names and two surnames). There are several reasons for the increase - wanting to honour both sides of the family rather than just one, having fewer children so trying to cram more grandparents’ names on to one kid, adding a mother’s surname as a middle name, adding a name to honour the various heritages of the child, not wanting your kid to feel left out for having fewer names than their friends (my daughter has one middle name and does feel that a bit!), etc etc. The only way the church makes any difference is that you can change names on the birth certificate up until the age of 1, and that used to be so that you can add a name after Christening (not confirmation, which obviously comes much later). But that’s for Catholic and everything else as well as CofE and these days you don’t need to provide proof of Christening, you just ask the registry office to add the name and reissue the birth certificate. ---
**Author:** ![WotNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e19b73/32.png) [@WotNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WotNot)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2018, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-of-the-people-with-two-middle-names/805989/59 "2018-01-08T23:30:14Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > As is shown by that famous cricket (or is it rugby?) player J. R. R. Tolkien. I think it’s more common to use two or three initials instead of using any first or middle names in the U.K. than it is in the U.S. J. R. R. Tolkien, C. S. Lewis, J. M. W. Turner, D. H. Lawrence, G. K. Chesterton, P. G. Wodehouse, H. G. Wells, C. S. Forester, A. A. Milne, J. K. Rowling, A. J. Ayers, and A. J. P. Taylor are some examples. It’s apparently more common in the arts and in academia, as far as I can tell. It possibly _has_ been more common in the past, but (with the exception of Ms Rowling, who was advised to use initials to disguise her sex) the youngest on that list was born in 1910, and things have been a lot less formal since WWII. If they had first become famous in the second half of the twentieth century, I suspect we’d know them as Ronald Tolkien, Jack Lewis, William Turner, David Lawrence, Gilbert Chesterton, Pelham Wodehouse, Bert Wells, Cecil Forester, Alan Milne, Alfred Ayer and Alan Taylor. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2018, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-of-the-people-with-two-middle-names/805989/60 "2018-01-09T00:02:07Z")
> [@WotNot](#): > > It possibly _has_ been more common in the past, but (with the exception of Ms Rowling, who was advised to use initials to disguise her sex) the youngest on that list was born in 1910, and things have been a lot less formal since WWII. If they had first become famous in the second half of the twentieth century, I suspect we’d know them as Ronald Tolkien, Jack Lewis, William Turner, David Lawrence, Gilbert Chesterton, Pelham Wodehouse, Bert Wells, Cecil Forester, Alan Milne, Alfred Ayer and Alan Taylor. And Rowling doesn’t even have a real middle name, she just added K for Kathleen (after her Grandmother) for her pen name, but not her everyday name. She’s one of those people whose parents don’t give them any middle name at all, which I’m pretty sure has become extremely rare in the UK (as in, babies born now almost always have a middle name) but I can’t find a cite for that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-of-the-people-with-two-middle-names/805989.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-of-the-people-with-two-middle-names/805989.md?page=4)