# Where are all the good, cynical books? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [May 24, 2000, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-good-cynical-books/20402 "2000-05-24T14:26:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Cynical1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5fc32e/32.png) [@Cynical1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cynical1)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2000, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-good-cynical-books/20402/1 "2000-05-24T14:26:28Z")
I am an avid reader going through 3-7 novels a week. (Yes, I do have a job - I teach night classes so I have lots of free time during the day) I first read Catch-22 years ago. I have been trying since to repeat that euphoric experience the way a coke user tries to relive his first high. Is there nothing out there as funny and cynical? Am I forever destined to read schlock? I’ve tried Vonnegut (Some OK but…) Wag the Dog came very close. Douglas Adams and Terry Pratchett weren’t bad but lacked the darker elements of true cynicism. The flunkies at the book stores seem to glaze over when I ask about this. Help me… ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Cynical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ee59a6/32.png) [@Mr.Cynical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Cynical)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2000, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-good-cynical-books/20402/2 "2000-05-24T14:29:47Z")
They’re increasingly difficult to find. In fact, I can’t think of a single one. ---
**Author:** ![G.B.H.Hornswoggler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c67d28/32.png) [@G.B.H.Hornswoggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/G.B.H.Hornswoggler)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2000, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-good-cynical-books/20402/3 "2000-05-24T16:11:13Z")
There’s a new novel that might be up your alley: **Slab Rat** by Ted Heller. It’s the story of a young, back-stabbing magazine editor. And before Ukulele Ike or Eve weigh in: early Evelyn Waugh is also very cynical. **Scoop** , a novel of journalism, is a good place to start. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2000, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-good-cynical-books/20402/4 "2000-05-24T16:22:20Z")
Thanks, Ace. Slab Rat’s not bad; there are a few other modern writers who can do Cynical pretty well. But “old fashions please me best.” Waugh, Dorothy Parker, J.P. McEvoy, Tiffany Thayer, early Anita Loos (which I think John Emerson wrote, anyway!); all masters of cynicism. Also Henri Murger’s Tales of the Latin Quarter; and ‘the very pineapple’ of cynical lit, Voltaire’s Candide. ---
**Author:** ![Myron\_Van\_Horowitzski](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@Myron\_Van\_Horowitzski](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Myron_Van_Horowitzski)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2000, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-good-cynical-books/20402/5 "2000-05-24T17:00:28Z")
_Pinocchio,_, the original Collodi story. In this one, the Cricket gets stomped on in the first chapter. ---
**Author:** ![voguevixen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b5ac83/32.png) [@voguevixen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voguevixen)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2000, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-good-cynical-books/20402/6 "2000-05-24T17:24:13Z")
I think Richard Russo’s work is delightfully snarky, as is some Elmore Leonard. I’ve never thought to rate books on their cynicalness, so I haven’t really been paying attention to it; I’ll keep my eyes peeled from now on. ---
**Author:** ![Geenius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f475e1/32.png) [@Geenius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Geenius)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2000, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-good-cynical-books/20402/7 "2000-05-24T17:36:35Z")
Try some Neal Stephenson. _Snow Crash_ was pretty cynical, though it’s sort of a jovial, Mark Twain-ish, “Everything’s gonna work out fine in the end, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t all fucked up anyway” cynicism. Same with _The Diamond Age,_ which contains the all-time classic quote, “If the Chinese Coastal Republic even believed in the _existence_ of virtue, it could at least have aspired to hypocrisy.” Also try _The Broken Land_ by Ian McDonald, if you can find it. It’s a science-fiction allegory of the Troubles in Northern Ireland. ---
**Author:** ![Milossarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Milossarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Milossarian)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2000, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-good-cynical-books/20402/8 "2000-05-24T18:53:48Z")
If you’re not opposed to nonfiction, essayist type of stuff that is funny and cynical, I’d recommend pretty much anything by P.J. O’Rourke. He’s rather conservative and tends to focus on politics, but he’s one of the few that makes me laugh out loud as a I read. ---
**Author:** ![Argeable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b5ac83/32.png) [@Argeable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argeable)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2000, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-good-cynical-books/20402/9 "2000-05-24T20:59:09Z")
Hang around my friend Dave, he’s the most cynical person I know. For instance, he beleives in telling people that all of their are problems are because “God hates you.” Example: “Remember how your best childhood friend, Timmy, was always really thin and had a wasting disease? Remember when he died, and how sad you were? That wasn’t because God hates Timmy, it was becasue god hates you, and he knew that killing Timmy was the best way to get to you.” -OR- He proposes that, since Santa Clause is capable of insanely fast travel, as well as resisting huge amounts of pressure and heat, he must be captured and brain washed, then used as an assasain…I can’t tell it nearly as well as he can…here, lemme give you a link. [http://www.angelfire.com/ma2/thecowempire/funny.html](http://www.angelfire.com/ma2/thecowempire/funny.html) there ya go Also, the Russo stuff’s pretty good ---
**Author:** ![Me\_Joe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecccb3/32.png) [@Me\_Joe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Me_Joe)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2000, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-good-cynical-books/20402/10 "2000-05-24T22:12:43Z")
You might want to check out “Thank You For Smoking” by Christopher Buckley. ---
**Author:** ![Dumbguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Dumbguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dumbguy)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2000, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-good-cynical-books/20402/11 "2000-05-24T22:30:01Z")
How about Thomas Pynchon, John Hersey, Bertrand Russell, Hunter S. Thompson, Cormac McCarthy, Gore Vidal, T.C. Boyle, Noam Chomsky, Joan Didion, John Updike… ---
**Author:** ![Torgo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@Torgo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Torgo)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2000, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-good-cynical-books/20402/12 "2000-05-24T22:39:42Z")
James Ellroy’s “American Tabloid.” A good dose of cynicism plus it trashes the whole rotten Kennedy clan to boot. ---
**Author:** ![Iguana\_Boy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ed655f/32.png) [@Iguana\_Boy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iguana_Boy)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2000, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-good-cynical-books/20402/13 "2000-05-24T22:47:27Z")
I’m with Milossarian - P.J. O’Rourke is the funniest cynical writer around, although it’s mostly non-fiction. To say he’s conservative is putting it mildly. To quote the great Terry Pratchett P.J. is “so far to the right he’s sometimes comes back at you from the left.” ---
**Author:** ![Jo3sh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a587f6/32.png) [@Jo3sh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jo3sh)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2000, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-good-cynical-books/20402/14 "2000-05-25T00:26:42Z")
I also will chime in for P.J. O’Rourke. While waiting for a plane in San Fransisco, I was reading his _Eat The Rich_ and laughing out loud in the bookstore. I also liked _All The Trouble In The World_. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2000, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-good-cynical-books/20402/15 "2000-05-25T00:33:09Z")
“The Crime Studio” “Bigot Hall” Or , anything by Dr. Hunter S. Thompson Also, try Mark Twain’s short stories. You’d be suprised! ---
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2000, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-good-cynical-books/20402/16 "2000-05-25T01:56:36Z")
I third the vote for PJ O’Rourke. Any man who says, “Buffet, is French for get up and get it yourself.” Is my kind of reading. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2000, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-good-cynical-books/20402/17 "2000-05-25T02:58:23Z")
The bleakest, most cynical book I have ever read was supposed to be a lightweight piece of fluff: **The Shootist** , Glendon Swarthout. The John Wayne movie looks like Pollyanna in comparison. ---
**Author:** ![Cynical1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5fc32e/32.png) [@Cynical1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cynical1)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2000, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-good-cynical-books/20402/18 "2000-05-25T08:11:49Z")
Da Ace - Thanks for the tip on Slab Rat. Is it coincidence that the author’s last name is Heller? Voguevixen - Haven’t tried Russo, Found Elmore to be trying too hard. Thanks much Geenius - More stuff I never heard of - Many Thanks Milossarian, Iguana Boy, Jo3sh, & Shirley Ujest - P.J. O’Rourke sounds like fun - I wonder why the book store clerks never heard of him Those of you who suggested Hunter S Thompson - Done that. He kinda reminds me of Wolfe’s Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test - Seconds of genius surrounded by hours of tedium Dumbguy - Joan Didion??? Re: Mark Twain: Read them all as a teen when my cynicism was still taking root. Maybe time to revisit If I haven’t mentioned anyone here it doesn’t mean that I don’t appreciate the help, just that I need to get to Amazon before everyone reading this thread depletes the stocks Keep posting if anything else comes to mind! ---
**Author:** ![mazirian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@mazirian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mazirian)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2000, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-good-cynical-books/20402/19 "2000-05-25T13:21:19Z")
_The Devil’s Dictionary_ by Ambrose Bierce, the Bible of blackguards. While written in the turn of the century (no, no, the **previous** century), most of the definitions still ring true. **Cynic,** _n._ A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be. Hence the custom among the Scythians of plucking out cynic’s eyes to improve his vision. It’s on the web too, somewhere… ---
**Author:** ![G.B.H.Hornswoggler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c67d28/32.png) [@G.B.H.Hornswoggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/G.B.H.Hornswoggler)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2000, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-good-cynical-books/20402/20 "2000-05-25T13:29:33Z")
> [@](#): > > **Da Ace - Thanks for the tip on Slab Rat. Is it coincidence that the author’s last name is Heller?** He’s no aparrent relation (at least the book itself doesn’t claim any, and I have to imagine it would if there was any relation). I don’t know if you’ve tried other books by _Joseph_ Heller, but I quite liked **God Knows** , which isn’t quite as cynical as **Catch-22** but has its moments. Mark Twain was another good suggestion; he got very cynical in his old age. Those books tend to be about religion, though, so they may not be too your taste. **Letters From the Earth** is generally considered to be the best introduction to late Twain. There are also collections of his late stories, like “The Man Who Corrupted Hadleyburgh,” which are very dark. If you like Twain, a somewhat similar writer who I love is Ambrose Bierce. You may be familiar with his **Devil’s Dictionary** , a collection of cynical definitions of common words, but his short stories are even better. He wrote three kinds of stories: nasty ghost tales, Civil War stories (the most famous being “An Occurrence at Owl Creek Bridge”) and tall tales. All three styles generally involve unpleasant violent death, well-described, and he’s a wonderful storyteller. There’s a good one-volume paperback of all of his short stories from the University of Nebraska; it’s a great book. I agree with the rest of the crowd about P.J. O’Rourke (not fiction, but definitely cynical). If non-fiction is allowed, try Florence King, especially **With Charity Toward None**. That’s more specifically a history of misanthropy than cynicism, but the two are so close that it’s a distinction without a difference. A good genre in general is the _noir_ish crime novel, from Jim Thompson (e.g., **The Killer Inside Me** ) and David Goodis (try **Shoot the Piano Player** ) to Richard Stark (his first novel was made into the recent Mel Gibson movie **Payback** , but don’t hold that against him). Much of the classic _noir_ has been republished in recent years by Vintage/Black Lizard in trade paperback (I’m not usre if they’re using the “Black Lizard” trade name anymore). Anything from that line should be up your alley. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-good-cynical-books/20402.md?page=2)