# Where are all the good, cynical books? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [May 24, 2000, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-good-cynical-books/20402 "2000-05-24T14:26:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2000, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-good-cynical-books/20402/21 "2000-05-25T13:38:04Z")
Hell, read ALL of Ambrose Bierce. They didn’t call him “Bitter Bierce” for nuthin. The war stories are particularly nice. {shiver} James Crumley is good and cynical, too. _The Last Good Kiss_ is his best. Oh, and ANY writer who did trench service in World War I. Wilfred Owen, Siegfried Sassoon, Ernst Stadler, etc…there’s a nice collection called _The Penguin Book of First World War Poetry_ that gives fine samples of each. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2000, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-good-cynical-books/20402/22 "2000-05-25T13:45:41Z")
Oh, yeah, and _The Good Soldier Svejk_ by J. Hasek. A cynical classic. Ace: Brilliant call on Richard Stark. The first Stark novel (1961) was originally called _The Hunter,_ and was made into a terrific movie in 1967 called _Point Blank,_ as well as the Gibson potboiler last year. So it’s currently in print as _Payback,_ in a movie tie-in version. But you can find used copies as both _The Hunter_ and _Point Blank._ Whatever you call it, it’s a great book. Damn, you can’t go wrong with ANY Richard Stark novel. ---
**Author:** ![labdude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/5fc32e/32.png) [@labdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/labdude)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2000, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-good-cynical-books/20402/23 "2000-05-25T14:50:06Z")
how about-- a conferacy of dunces ---
**Author:** ![Cynical1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5fc32e/32.png) [@Cynical1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cynical1)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2000, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-good-cynical-books/20402/24 "2000-05-25T15:11:50Z")
I cut my teeth on Ambrose Bierce. Problem is, he stopped writing for some reason. (Some say it’s because he’s dead but you can’t prove that by me.) Da Ace - God Knows was clever but as Heller himself could tell you, he just reached too far with the first book. The critics panned Catch-22 and then complained that nothing else he did was as good. Sort of a Catch-22… ---
**Author:** ![aenea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c68b51/32.png) [@aenea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aenea)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2000, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-good-cynical-books/20402/25 "2000-05-25T15:30:28Z")
I’m suprised nobody has mentioned Harlan Ellison yet. Very cynical, a bit dark, often very funny. ---
**Author:** ![Dumbguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Dumbguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dumbguy)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2000, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-good-cynical-books/20402/26 "2000-05-25T21:10:58Z")
What’s wrong with Joan Didion? ---
**Author:** ![Moe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moe/32/2972_2.png) [@Moe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moe)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2000, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-good-cynical-books/20402/27 "2000-05-25T22:09:39Z")
I’m surprised no one has mentioned Bukowski yet. Although I guess he’s more flat out dark than cynical. Tom Robbins is, I think, very cynical in a playful way. He’s not angry with life, but rather just finds humor in everything. The Castle by Kafka is a very dark novel, but unfortunately he died before he could finish it so if you do go for that one, be sure to get the version completed by Thomas Mann (which I’ve never read, but let me tell you, coming to the point in that book where you are reaching a major peak of excitement and then reading “At this time Kafka died without completing the manuscript” is completely heartbreaking) For the most brilliantly cynical and hilarious comic strip you’ll ever read, pick up some “Zippy the Pinhead” by Bill Griffith. Here’s a url: [http://www.sfgate.com/sf/zippy/](http://www.sfgate.com/sf/zippy/) Check it every weekday for a new one. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2000, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-good-cynical-books/20402/28 "2000-05-25T22:44:15Z")
Are you looking for humourous cynical or dark cynical? Humorous: Saki (his short stories are hilarious) - english writer who mocks pretentious socialites of end-19th-century england. A recent novel about UFO’s: Christopher Buckley’s “Little Green Men” Roald Dahl’s short stories. Look for the collections “Kiss Kiss” and “Switch Bitch” (? I think that’s the title) Roald Dahl is the master of black humour. Serious: Anything by John Fante. Try “Ask the Dust”. John Dos Passos, “Manhattan Transfer”. Emile Zola and Balzac can’t be beat for depictions of 19th century french society. Balzac is wittier, Zola more passionate in his denunciations. ---
**Author:** ![Elthia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e274bd/32.png) [@Elthia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elthia)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2000, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-good-cynical-books/20402/29 "2000-05-26T01:48:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*\* > Try some Neal Stephenson. _Snow Crash_ was pretty cynical, though it’s sort of a jovial, Mark Twain-ish, “Everything’s gonna work out fine in the end, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t all fucked up anyway” cynicism. Same with _The Diamond Age,_ which contains the all-time classic quote, “If the Chinese Coastal Republic even believed in the _existence_ of virtue, it could at least have aspired to hypocrisy.” > \*\* His ‘Cryptonomicon’ is even better, believe it or not. I’m becoming a real Neal Stephenson fan. The ending to ‘Zodiak’ stank, but as time goes on he gets better. I can’t wait to see his next one. I can’t think of much else that might suit, though - I don’t usually like dark books full of evil ideas, I like it when they make it funny. _shrug_ -Elthia ---
**Author:** ![voguevixen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b5ac83/32.png) [@voguevixen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voguevixen)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2000, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-good-cynical-books/20402/30 "2000-05-26T03:05:10Z")
You’re right about Leonard. But I think he does that more in some books than in others. I just finished “Be Cool” and found it one of his less forced offerings. I can’t believe I’ve overlooked Douglas Copland. Can’t beat that dreary “Gen X” angst. Microserfs is actually rather fascinating. I understand “Infinite Jest” by David Foster Wallace is supposed to be good, but I couldn’t make it past the first few pages, so I can’t attest to it’s cynicalness. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2000, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-good-cynical-books/20402/31 "2000-05-26T06:21:17Z")
If you want snarkily witty and intelligent but not necessarily cynical (cynical meaning bitter and amoral), try John Ralston Saul’s _The Doubter’s Companion_. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2000, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-good-cynical-books/20402/32 "2000-05-26T11:44:22Z")
Two nonfiction writers you should know about are Joe Queenan and Bill Bryson. It’s not that they’re really cynical so much as they’re snide and rather proud of how much they can come across as jerks. In that sense, they’re rather similar to P. J. O’Rourke, but I think that deep down O’Rourke really is a jerk, while Queenan and Bryson are nice guys who enjoy playing at being jerks. I like _The Cryptonomicon_ better than I did _Snow Crash_, but then I wasn’t as much impressed by _Snow Crash_ as some people were. Furthermore, _The Cryptonomicon_ goes on forever. Aren’t there any editors out there anymore? ---
**Author:** ![Cynical1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5fc32e/32.png) [@Cynical1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cynical1)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2000, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-good-cynical-books/20402/33 "2000-05-26T13:03:21Z")
Dumbguy - My thoughts (When I am forced to have them) on Joan Didion mirror those found here: [http://dept.english.upenn.edu/~afilreis/103/didion-per-harrison.html](http://dept.english.upenn.edu/~afilreis/103/didion-per-harrison.html) Please don’t make me think about her. The migraines are coming on stronger now… Kenny - Robbins is a hoot and he’s getting better. Half Asleep in Frog Pajamas still kills me. I just this morning found out that he has a new one out. Zippy doesn’t do it for me though. I spent the 80’s inside the beltway and the 90’s just outside of it. Maybe it was too much like just another day at the office. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2000, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-good-cynical-books/20402/34 "2000-05-26T15:08:16Z")
Can you say Harry Crews? The Gospel Singer - what an astounding debut effort. My all time faves are The Gypsy’s Curse and A Feast of Snakes. I find a lot of cynicism in Walker Percy’s earlier work like The Moviegoer, The Last Gentleman, and Lancelot (not crazy bout Thanatos, etc.) Can’t beat them fallen Catholics. Re: Russo, I’m surprised more folk haven’t read him, after the popularity of Nobody’s Fool. When reading it I sure didn’t picture the main character as anything like Paul Newman, tho. ---
**Author:** ![Geenius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f475e1/32.png) [@Geenius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Geenius)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2000, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-good-cynical-books/20402/35 "2000-05-26T18:23:07Z")
Wagner: Sure there are editors, but nobody will hire us. And boy, did _Cryptonomicon_ need the attention of an editor. Great book, though. I didn’t mention it before because I don’t consider it to be cynical, at least not on the level of _Snow Crash_ or _Diamond Age._ ---
**Author:** ![Dumbguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Dumbguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dumbguy)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2000, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-good-cynical-books/20402/36 "2000-05-26T18:40:35Z")
There are few things I have less respect for than writers who dedicate their lives to criticizing other writers. In that criticism of Didion, Harrison says “Didion is the lyricist of the irrational. Some people find that charming. I do not.” I do. My apologies to Ms. Harrison. ---
**Author:** ![right\_said\_fred](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@right\_said\_fred](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/right_said_fred)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2000, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-good-cynical-books/20402/37 "2000-05-26T18:45:14Z")
“Dead Babies” by Martin Amis. The only other person to whom I proffered this selection told me I should die for unearthing such a read. I bought him a beer, and he forgave me. * * * Satan doesn’t smoke? Where the Hell am I? ---
**Author:** ![right\_said\_fred](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@right\_said\_fred](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/right_said_fred)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2000, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-good-cynical-books/20402/38 "2000-05-26T18:45:16Z")
“Dead Babies” by Martin Amis. The only other person to whom I proffered this selection told me I should die for unearthing such a read. I bought him a beer, and he forgave me. * * * Satan doesn’t smoke? Where the Hell am I? ---
**Author:** ![Cynical1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5fc32e/32.png) [@Cynical1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cynical1)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2000, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-good-cynical-books/20402/39 "2000-05-26T19:25:28Z")
Dead Babies huh? Well the title certainly has a cynical ring to it. The absolute last thing on Joan Didion. There’s a difference between the lyricist of the irrational and the lyricist of the cynical. She reaches but gets too much of herself in the mix. She’s not nearly cynical enough to pull it off. My wife is occasionally irrational but those are the times when I keep her away from sharp object such as pens. Same goes for myself. Maybe we need a thread to discuss Joan Didion but I’m not going to start it. I want to thank everyone again for the suggestions. These should keep me busy for a couple of weeks. “More input, need input” so don’t hesitate if anything else comes to mind. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![voguevixen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b5ac83/32.png) [@voguevixen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voguevixen)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2000, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-good-cynical-books/20402/40 "2000-05-26T19:47:45Z")
I’ll second Bill Bryson, and add David Sedaris, who is HILARIOUS! He writes about the most horrible things and you’re fighting back tears of laughter. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-good-cynical-books/20402.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-good-cynical-books/20402.md?page=3)