# Where are all the militant Muslims? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 30, 2012, 9:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-militant-muslims/629837 "2012-07-30T09:46:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Flyer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyer/32/7298_2.png) [@Flyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyer)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2012, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-militant-muslims/629837/21 "2012-07-30T23:31:59Z")
> [@newcomer](#): > > snip > Sarin attack in Japan is exactly what OP is pointing out. It’s very easy to do yet it hasn’t been done. > > Um, they are supposed to be “suicide bombers” where survival is not an option. And, again, as per OP, the flashiest method of all hasn’t been used yet. The OP specifically mentioned a handful of people going around to various points and putting bombs at each point. That is by definition not a suicide bomber. About the sarin attack, and similar things–I guess I didn’t mention this explicitly, but it’s really the whole point–sarin attacks, bomb attacks, etc. (all the flashy things) the whole point is that they are NOT nearly as easy or as effective as people like you seem to think. And that’s a good thing–because the terrorists tend to be fixated on things that likely won’t work, and thus do far less damage than they could do otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2012, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-militant-muslims/629837/22 "2012-07-30T23:38:16Z")
Rather unsurprisingly, **Newcomer** is wrong. [Al Qa’ida means “the base”](http://www.fas.org/irp/world/para/ladin.htm), to put it mildly, it is a mistranslation to call it “the database”. While I’m at it, RNATB is also wrong, and he should know better as this topic has been done on the Dope, repeatedly. > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > The number of Muslims who “hate us for our freedom” is zero. No Muslim has ever said, “you know, those Americans are just _too fucking free!_” Except, of course, [the father of modern jihadism and a direct ideological influence on Bin Laden.](http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history-archaeology/presence-feb06.html) > [@](#): > > Before Sayyid Qutb became a leading theorist of violent jihad, he was a little-known Egyptian writer sojourning in the United States, where he attended a small teachers college on the Great Plains. Greeley, Colorado, circa 1950 was the last place one might think to look for signs of American decadence. Its wide streets were dotted with churches, and there wasn’t a bar in the whole temperate town. But the courtly Qutb (COO-tub) saw things that others did not. He seethed at the brutishness of the people around him: the way they salted their watermelon and drank their tea unsweetened and watered their lawns. He found the muscular football players appalling and despaired of finding a barber who could give a proper haircut. As for the music: “The American’s enjoyment of jazz does not fully begin until he couples it with singing like crude screaming,” Qutb wrote when he returned to Egypt. “It is this music that the savage bushmen created to satisfy their primitive desires.” > > Such grumbling by an unhappy crank would be almost comical but for one fact: a direct line of influence runs from Sayyid Qutb to Osama bin Laden, and to bin Laden’s Egyptian partner in terror, Ayman al-Zawahiri. From them, the line continues to another quietly seething Egyptian sojourning in the United States—the 9/11 hijacker Mohammed Atta. Qutb’s gripes about America require serious attention because they cast light on a question that has been nagging since the fall of the World Trade Center: Why do they hate us? > > […] > > Still, Qutb’s contempt for America was not as simple as some people might now imagine. He did not recoil from political freedom and democracy, as, say, President Bush might expect from a jihadi theorist, nor did he complain about shades of imperial ambition in American foreign policy, as writers on the left might suppose. Regarding the excesses of American culture—vulgarity, materialism and promiscuity—Qutb expressed shock, but it rang a bit hollow. “The American girl is well acquainted with her body’s seductive capacity,” he wrote. “She knows seductiveness lies in the round breasts, the full buttocks, and in the shapely thighs, sleek legs and she shows all this and does not hide it.” These curvy jezebels pursued boys with “wide, strapping chest[s]” and “ox muscles,” Qutb added with disgust. Yet no matter how lascivious his adjectives, the fastidious, unmarried Egyptian could not convincingly portray the church dances and Look magazines he encountered in sleepy Greeley as constituting a genuine sexual “jungle.” > > […] > > Sayyid Qutb cut short his stay in America and returned to Egypt in 1951 after the assassination of Hassan al-Banna, founder of the nationalist, religious and militant movement known as the Muslim Brotherhood. Over the next decade and a half, often writing from prison, Qutb refined a violent political theology from the raw anti-modernism of his American interlude. Virtually the entire modern world, Qutb theorized, is jahiliyya, that barbarous state that existed before Muhammad. Only the strict, unchanging law of the prophet can redeem this uncivilized condition. Nearly a millennium of history became, to the radicalized Qutb, an offense wrought by the violence of jahili “Crusaders” and the supposed perfidy of the Jews. And Muslim leaders allied with the West were no better than the Crusaders themselves. Therefore, Qutb called all true Muslims to jihad, or Holy War, against jahiliyya—which is to say, against modernity, which America so powerfully represents. > > This philosophy led to Qutb’s execution in 1966. Proud to the end, he refused to accept the secular Egyptian leader Gamal Abdel Nasser’s offer of mercy in exchange for Qutb’s repudiation of his jihad. Nasser may have silenced a critic, but the martyrdom of Sayyid Qutb accelerated his movement. The same year the philosopher was hanged, according to journalist Lawrence Wright, the teenage al-Zawahiri formed his first violent cell, dedicated to the overthrow of the Egyptian government and the creation of an Islamist state. Meanwhile, Qutb’s brother Muhammad went into exile in Saudi Arabia, where he taught at King Abdul Aziz University. One of his students, an heir to the country’s largest construction fortune, was Osama bin Laden ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2012, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-militant-muslims/629837/23 "2012-07-31T00:26:59Z")
Did you have a point, Finn? Because a rejection of American materialism and offense at perceived lasciviousness does not quite translate into a hatred of the freedoms of speech, the press, the right to assemble, or other phenomena that we typically associate with freedom. (It might demonstrate a hatred of religious freedom, but that hardly counts as opposition to “freedom.”) Qutb seems to have been a puritanical crank, but nothing you quoted indicates that he would not have preferred an Egypt in which he was more free to protest or to assemble with like-minded “reformers.” ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2012, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-militant-muslims/629837/24 "2012-07-31T00:38:28Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Did you have a point, Finn? No tom, I always post without a point. :rolleyes: Yes, freedom of religion in specific but from that flows freedom of behavior, freedom to ignore Islamic law, freedom from extremist Islamic concepts of “modesty”. The idea that hating religious freedom doesn’t mean they hate freedom is nonsensical. Jihadists do not (necessarily) support dictatorial, autocratic, totalitarian control over people, but they most certainly do practice an ideology which is predicated upon the rejection many of the fundamental freedoms which the west is ostensibly based around. Yet again, to clarify as you seem to have missed the, ahem, point: > [@](#): > > Over the next decade and a half, often writing from prison, Qutb refined a violent political theology from the raw anti-modernism of his American interlude. Virtually the entire modern world, Qutb theorized, is jahiliyya, that barbarous state that existed before Muhammad. Only the strict, unchanging law of the prophet can redeem this uncivilized condition. Nearly a millennium of history became, to the radicalized Qutb, an offense wrought by the violence of jahili “Crusaders” and the supposed perfidy of the Jews. And Muslim leaders allied with the West were no better than the Crusaders themselves. Therefore, Qutb called all true Muslims to jihad, or Holy War, against jahiliyya—which is to say, against modernity, which America so powerfully represents. Yes, freedom to observe or not observe as we see fit, to deliberately avoid precepts such as “modesty”, to order our affairs by schemas other than (Jihadist interpretation of) Islamic law was indeed, and still remains, a guiding ideological principle of many Jihadist schools of thought. By your logic, the Soviet Union had nothing against freedom since its citizens were still free to choose whether to stand in line for hours to get a roll of toilet paper or to get a loaf of bread. See, they had freedom of choice! 🆒 Come on Tom, Jihadists, just like American Dominionists, hate the freedoms that we in the west are afforded. Does that mean that they object to the freedom to assemble, for example? No, of course not. But that’s a disingenuous, superficial, flippant gloss of a situation where there are some who will literally kill in order to impose their religious ideology upon others. P.S. If you think the ability to act and dress as you see fit isn’t freedom, ask women who were forced back into a burning school by Vice and Virtue Police since the women weren’t wearing properly modest dress. Or see what happens to such ‘immodest’ women on the streets of Iran or Saudi Arabia. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2012, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-militant-muslims/629837/25 "2012-07-31T01:53:05Z")
You’re pretty worked up on this topic, but I think you are wrong. It is true that the puritan is someone who is deathly afraid that someone, somewhere, is enjoying themselves. However, defining that as opposition to “freedom” simply rationalizes the sort of silliness in which GWB engaged. Yes, there are various specific freedoms that that the puritanical would deny their fellow citizens, (or humans), but “freedom” is larger than just those limited activities. Making the issue one of opposition to freedom, itself, is simply a way to demonize such people by associating them with opposition to all freedoms. It might give you a sense of satisfaction to view them that way, but it precludes an understanding of their actual beliefs so that it is more difficult to oppose them in the realm of ideas. It is rather like the nonsense that directed the Cold War for so many years in which a legitmate opposition to Soviet hegemony was turned into a religious crusade against a “communist world domination” that had already died in the 1930s. If you attack a straw man of a belief system, people on the sidelines will see the error of your logic and be more receptive to the blandishments emanating from your opponent. (Not that anyone on this board will be lured into Salafism, but it is well to keep one’s arguments straight in one’s own mind for when one ventures out of this little Internet enclave.) ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2012, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-militant-muslims/629837/26 "2012-07-31T01:54:43Z")
Returning to the OP, I have no real knowledge, but I have a theory. I suspect that if you take the most crazed, America-hating terrorist and sneak him onto the US to plan some spectacular slaughter, he will almost always fail. I suspect they become seduced by America, buy a car and start working as a cab driver. After a few years, they buy a small diner and pretty soon they are too busy to build bombs. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2012, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-militant-muslims/629837/27 "2012-07-31T02:11:47Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > You’re pretty worked up on this topic Your mind-reading skills are, perhaps, not your strong suit Tom. You’d know that if you weren’t totally enraged and bonkers over this topic. Eh? Eh? 😛 There is no rationalization involved. Qutb and those of his lineage really were/are violently opposed to many of the freedoms which we in the west take for granted: the freedom to practice or not practice Islam, the freedom to dress as you want, to act as you want, to have laws which are generally based around protecting human life and property and not making people subservient to extremist theological concepts of behavior. It’s most far beyond people simply being angry that someone, somewhere is having a good time; the actions which have been taken to advance Qutb’s theology include but are not limited to murder and violent coercion. > [@tomndebb](#): > > Yes, there are various specific freedoms that that the puritanical would deny their fellow citizens, (or humans), but “freedom” is larger than just those limited activities. What standard then do you claim that any regime is opposed to the freedoms we take for granted? None of them deny people _all_ freedoms, including North Korea. Is the Hermit Kingdom, then, not opposed to freedom? No, it’s not the simplistic bumper sticker that Bush traded in, but Jihadists most certainly do hate the fact that the rest of the world is not subservient to their extremist views of Islam. And they’ve shown the willingness to back up that view with lethal force. There’s no strawman involved. Your argument is a little bit like saying that of course homophobes don’t hate normal gay activities, because after all homosexuals eat breakfast and homophobes don’t hate breakfast. It makes no sense for you to claim that, sure, Qutb and his ideological descendants were/are violently opposed to freedom of religion, freedom of dress, freedom of behavior and so on, but that they didn’t/don’t hate us because of the freedoms we enjoy. No, just like the North Koreans, there are some freedoms which Jihadists don’t hate. But that doesn’t mean that either group isn’t virulently opposed to freedom. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2012, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-militant-muslims/629837/28 "2012-07-31T03:32:45Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > There is no rationalization involved. Qutb and those of his lineage really were/are violently opposed to many of the freedoms which we in the west take for granted… Well, that kind of misses the point, which is that lots of other people have those freedoms but aren’t targeted by Islamic extremists. They hate _us_ because we have lots of money and we have an interventionist foreign policy. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2012, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-militant-muslims/629837/29 "2012-07-31T03:46:02Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Well, that kind of misses the point The point you made before you shifted the goalposts was: > [@](#): > > The number of Muslims who “hate us for our freedom” is zero. No Muslim has ever said, “you know, those Americans are just too fucking free!” But I can understand why you’ve changed that to “targeted by Islamic extremists.” As for your other error: > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > They hate _us_ because we have lots of money and we have an interventionist foreign policy. You are ignoring what I’ve already cited and quoted. Again: > [@](#): > > Still, Qutb’s contempt for America was not as simple as some people might now imagine. He did not recoil from political freedom and democracy, as, say, President Bush might expect from a jihadi theorist, nor did he complain about shades of imperial ambition in American foreign policy, as writers on the left might suppose. > > […] > > Qutb refined a violent political theology from the raw anti-modernism of his American interlude. Virtually the entire modern world, Qutb theorized, is jahiliyya, that barbarous state that existed before Muhammad. Only the strict, unchanging law of the prophet can redeem this uncivilized condition. Nearly a millennium of history became, to the radicalized Qutb, an offense wrought by the violence of jahili “Crusaders” and the supposed perfidy of the Jews. And Muslim leaders allied with the West were no better than the Crusaders themselves. Therefore, Qutb called all true Muslims to jihad, or Holy War, against jahiliyya—which is to say, against modernity, which America so powerfully represents. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2012, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-militant-muslims/629837/30 "2012-07-31T03:56:39Z")
Since when does modernity = freedom? ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2012, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-militant-muslims/629837/31 "2012-07-31T03:58:48Z")
Welcome to the thread, you might want to try reading it. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2012, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-militant-muslims/629837/32 "2012-07-31T04:00:29Z")
You might want to try reading your own citations. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2012, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-militant-muslims/629837/33 "2012-07-31T04:11:47Z")
In keeping with the tone so far, I suppose I should start my post with a supercilious insult toward my fellow posters. [edit: Paul, I exclude you from my own snark, for reasons that I imagine are clear] **FinnAgain** appears right in a sense: the dude profiled in Smithsonian is pretty clearly calling for some nasty worldwide Sharia shit in which we all have to follow a particular set of religious edicts. If you’re calling for a system under which people can’t choose which systems to follow, it’s not a stretch at all to say you hate freedom: you’re calling for the opposite of freedom, after all. (The whole business about his disgust with curvy ladies seems a bit of a side-issue here, however smirkily funny it may be). In the context of the thread, however, I think **RNATB** is also onto something. While there are people who think worldwide Sharia law is a utopian goal, my understanding is that few people are motivated to terrorism primarily by that utopian goal. Rather, the folks who we need to worry about are the ones motivated by a desire to get the “West” (exemplified by US corporations and militaries) out of the “Islamic” world. The reason why they attack us isn’t because they hate our freedoms; if it were, then places like Sweden, with greater sexual freedom than the US, would be attacked more often. They attack us because we’re influential in an area of the world they consider rightfully theirs. ---
**Author:** ![split\_p\_j](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e19b73/32.png) [@split\_p\_j](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/split_p_j)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2012, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-militant-muslims/629837/34 "2012-07-31T04:35:32Z")
To answer the OP, they don’t exist. It’s basically a fantasy, exaggerated to the point of myth, to replace the Soviet Union as the "root of all evil’. The capabilities of the Soviet Union were exaggerated in a similar way during the cold war. The people that run this country are inspired by the likes of [Leo Strauss](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leo_Strauss), who believed that a liberal society,such as the United States, needed simple powerful myths to inspire and unite the people. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2012, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-militant-muslims/629837/35 "2012-07-31T04:42:41Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > In keeping with the tone so far, I suppose I should start my post with a supercilious insult toward my fellow posters. Or, of course, you could point out that you’re not going to do so and pat yourself on the back for it. That’s also a popular option. Qutb, however, wasn’t just “some dude”, he’s the ideological father of modern Jihadism. [Qutb was not a flash in the pan.](http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2001/nov/01/afghanistan.terrorism3) What’s more, talking about modern Islamic fundamentalism without Qutb is a bit like talking about the development of physics without mentioning Newton. Modern history includes sufficient examples of extremists acting violently in opposition to, for instance, freedom of speech (the “Cartoon Riots”, Theo Van Gogh’s murder, and so on). If Sweden is your thing: [well…](http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/europe/09/11/sweden.arrests/index.html) > [@](#): > > The head of the Swedish Security Service, Anders Danielsson, warned last week that “Islamic terrorism is still the biggest threat against Sweden.” > […] > Al Qaeda is now encouraging Muslim radicals to stay home “and strike where they are,” rather than traveling to conflict zones to get experience, said Rembe of the Swedish Security Service. > […] > After the Stockholm bombing, Swedish Security Police said the country had almost 200 Islamic extremists who advocate violence, but said there was no indication their number is growing. The point is that RNATB’s absurd declaration that there were zero Islamic extremists, at all, who are motivated by hatred of our western freedoms should be recognized as the bombast it is and such hyperbolic nonsense should not be used as the coin of discussion. Or, of course, we can all just shout political slogans back and forth and decide, hey, fuck nuance. > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > You might want to try reading your own citations. Brilliant factual rebuttal, that sure makes up for you not reading the thread or my cite. Once you read the thread, you can respond to the fact that mandating official religious observances, standards of behavior and dress (etc…) has quite a lot to do with an opposition to personal freedom and is not simply confined to modernity. Or, as Dopers so often do when caught in an embarrassing error, you can pretend that I didn’t read my own cite. Personally, I’d advise you to read the thread instead. Just a thought. ---
**Author:** ![split\_p\_j](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e19b73/32.png) [@split\_p\_j](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/split_p_j)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2012, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-militant-muslims/629837/36 "2012-07-31T04:43:56Z")
The myth is the United States is a unique country, and it’s destiny is to fight evil around the world. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2012, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-militant-muslims/629837/37 "2012-07-31T04:49:10Z")
> [@split\_p\_j](#): > > To answer the OP, they don’t exist. It’s basically a fantasy, exaggerated to the point of myth, to replace the Soviet Union as the "root of all evil’. I was born in Iran, and I can assure you that they very much do exist, though they’re more complex and cosmopolitan than often portrayed. If they didn’t I’d be living in Tehran, not here. Thankfully, they don’t represent most of us. > [@](#): > > The people that run this country are inspired by the likes of Leo Strauss, who believed that a liberal society,such as the United States, needed simple powerful myths to inspire and unite the people. And who were Leo Strauss’ disciples? I somehow don’t see George W. Bush as being a huge fan of him. Can you name some names and show this connection to Strauss? Thanks ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2012, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-militant-muslims/629837/38 "2012-07-31T05:03:22Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > What movie is that from? According to the comments, [Kurbaan](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurbaan_(2009_film)). ---
**Author:** ![split\_p\_j](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e19b73/32.png) [@split\_p\_j](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/split_p_j)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2012, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-militant-muslims/629837/39 "2012-07-31T05:37:04Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > I was born in Iran, and I can assure you that they very much do exist, though they’re more complex and cosmopolitan than often portrayed. If they didn’t I’d be living in Tehran, not here. Thankfully, they don’t represent most of us. > > And who were Leo Strauss’ disciples? > > I somehow don’t see George W. Bush as being a huge fan of him. > > Can you name some names and show this connection to Strauss? > > Thanks Of course I’m not saying there are no terrorists at all. I’m saying the threat has been greatly exaggerated, otherwise you’d be seeing the type of things the OP was talking about. Some may say they are saving it for some spectacular 9/11 style attack, but I disagree with that. It’d be far easier to send random people into malls and shoot or blow them up. I don’t know if you are serious in the second part of your post. I never mentioned George W. Bush for a reason. It has always been a small group within these administrations, dating back to Reagan. It’s the like of[Perle](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CRH9XNMb8E&feature=related) , Wolfowitz, Kristol, ect. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2012, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-militant-muslims/629837/40 "2012-07-31T05:45:50Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > I was born in Iran, and I can assure you that they very much do exist, though they’re more complex and cosmopolitan than often portrayed. If they didn’t I’d be living in Tehran, not here. Thankfully, they don’t represent most of us. Keep in mind that the kind of people who use rhetoric like “they hate us for our freedom” generally do think that most or all of you think like that, and would most likely assume that you do as well. Which is one reason why they tend to be the sort who have no problem committing pretty much any level of atrocity and destruction because “they hate us all anyway”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-militant-muslims/629837.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-militant-muslims/629837.md?page=3)