# Where are all the Nigels, Ians and Ruperts in the US? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 6, 2001, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-nigels-ians-and-ruperts-in-the-us/75130 "2001-08-06T16:13:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2001, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-nigels-ians-and-ruperts-in-the-us/75130/1 "2001-08-06T16:13:55Z")
Most first names in the US, especially in the Anglo-Saxon society, carried over from the UK. You know, names like Robert, Thomas, James, John, etc. So what happened to names like Nigel, Ian, and Rupert? It seems that those names should be prevalent in the US. But they’re not. Any ideas on why? Also, I couldn’t think of any other examples of common first names in England that aren’t common in the US. Maybe you can. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2001, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-nigels-ians-and-ruperts-in-the-us/75130/2 "2001-08-06T16:20:45Z")
You didn’t by any chance just see _The Madness of King George_, did you? ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2001, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-nigels-ians-and-ruperts-in-the-us/75130/3 "2001-08-06T16:43:53Z")
Boys: Hamish (okay, it’s Scottish, but you’ve gotta love the name) Simon Seamus Clive Cyril Crispin (hey, I didn’t say these were common over in the UK) Evelyn (as in Waugh) Percival Duncan Any one of those British “last name as first name” names like Fitzwilliam (Mr. Darcy from Pride and Prejudice), Fitzhugh, etc… Girls: Charlotte (gotta love a girl nick-named “Charlie”) This is just a starter list Fiona (Scottish) Gaelic Names (e.g., Siobhan, Sinead) The list is probably endless. As for why they are not prevalent in the US - probably some combination of whether they were popular in the UK at the time of colonization and if they were only somewhat popular, how they fared against names derived from other ethnicities, but I am sure someone like JomoMojo could do this topic justice… ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2001, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-nigels-ians-and-ruperts-in-the-us/75130/4 "2001-08-06T16:45:16Z")
Wait, wait, wait - I forgot “Mungo” - also a Scottish name, but I mean, c’mon: Mungo!! ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2001, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-nigels-ians-and-ruperts-in-the-us/75130/5 "2001-08-06T16:57:31Z")
Don’t forget, the States were at the time often a refuge for the good God fearin’ folk. Hence the three out of four common Brit names you cite are apostles. We are also starf\*ckers, so it seems a lot of names now get generated by how the stars name their kids. So expect William and Henry to pick up steam as popular anglo names in the near future, if not already. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2001, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-nigels-ians-and-ruperts-in-the-us/75130/6 "2001-08-06T17:02:07Z")
Seamus and Fiona are Irish (originally _Séamus_ or _Séamas_ and _Fíona_, with the accent on the first syllable). Duncan is from the Scots Gaelic _Donnchadh_. A few other names more popular in England than in the US: Julian Emma Gemma I’m sure I’ll think of more later … ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_Wright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@Steve\_Wright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_Wright)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2001, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-nigels-ians-and-ruperts-in-the-us/75130/7 "2001-08-06T17:21:54Z")
[nitpick] [Origins of the name “Fiona”](http://www.medievalscotland.org/problem/names/fiona.shtml). Notably lacking an “original” Irish form. [/nitpick] (Sorry. I’m a frustrated etymologist. Can’t help myself sometimes…) ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2001, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-nigels-ians-and-ruperts-in-the-us/75130/8 "2001-08-06T17:31:54Z")
Learn something new every day. Thanks, Steve. ---
**Author:** ![missbunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/76d3ee/32.png) [@missbunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/missbunny)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2001, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-nigels-ians-and-ruperts-in-the-us/75130/9 "2001-08-06T18:09:41Z")
“Jemima” for girls in the U.K. Seems like I’m always reading about some young thing from the British horsey set named Jemima. It doesn’t seem like a very common name in America, except for Aunt Jemima. ---
**Author:** ![elmwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmwood/32/3060_2.png) [@elmwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elmwood)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2001, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-nigels-ians-and-ruperts-in-the-us/75130/10 "2001-08-06T18:35:30Z")
You know, I was just about to post this very question, using those very names. _re: Nigel and Ian vs Julian and Duncan_ Nigel and Ian just _sound_ more British, as if they’re soccer hooligans or members of some late 1970s era progressive rock band. I’ve known American Simons, but I can’t seem to say the word “Nigel” in an accent that’s anything but pseudo-Cockney. “Hey, Nigel … bollocks!” “Hey, Ian … got a bloody Watneys?” _re: Last names as first names_ The last-name-as-first-name trend is increasingly common among upper middle class American families. _Charlotte_ Many American cities, towns and places are called “Charlotte.” I also have an Aunt Charlotte, and there were a few bluehairs at my old church that shared the name. Not British, but still old-fashioned sounding to my ear, like Ethel or Agnes. _Emma_ AFAIK, increasingly common in the United States. For some reason, my lesbian acquaintences tell me there’s a disproportionately large number of “alternative” Emmas. I have no idea why. _Gaelic names_ Based on personal observation, such names are increasingly common where there are large Irish-American communities; i.e. Boston, New York City, Buffalo. There seems to be some movement away from the likes of “Patrick” and “Catherine” into the more esoteric Gaelic names. _Some random thoughts_ Italian-American names – are there any folks who _aren’t_ Italian-American with names like Vito, Rocco, Vinnie, Guido, Angelo, and so on? Why do relatively few Italian–Americans give their children Anglo names? Do any Brits have (American) Western place or themed names as their first name? It’s common west of the Mississippi – I’ve come across the likes of Dallas, Denver, Austin, Cheyenne, Houston, Sheridan, Taos and Kiva. Are there any Beauregards north of the Mason-Dixon line? ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2001, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-nigels-ians-and-ruperts-in-the-us/75130/11 "2001-08-06T19:02:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by elmwood \* > **Nigel and Ian just sound more British, as if they’re soccer hooligans or members of some late 1970s era progressive rock band. I’ve known American Simons, but I can’t seem to say the word “Nigel” in an accent that’s anything but pseudo-Cockney. “Hey, Nigel … bollocks!” "Hey, Ian … got a bloody Watneys?"** Nigel sounds very posh and upper class to my ears. I think of it as _the_ quintessentially English name. I also think it’s horrible, no offence to any Nigels lurking about 🙂 > [@](#): > > There seems to be some movement away from the likes of “Patrick” and “Catherine” into the more esoteric Gaelic names. I can confirm this from living in an Irish community in San Francisco for several years in the late 1990s. Of my Irish friends and acquaintances who bred during this period, the names they were given included Tadgh, Mairéad, Liam, Cathal. Definitely a change from the names common to Irish-Americans when I was going to school with them in the 1970s and 1980s. The quasi-Irish names such as Colleen and Erin, which were once quite popular with I-Ams, also seem to be disappearing. That’s a subjective observation though and not one backed up by any statistics… ---
**Author:** ![flodnak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/838e76/32.png) [@flodnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flodnak)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2001, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-nigels-ians-and-ruperts-in-the-us/75130/12 "2001-08-06T19:04:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by elmwood \* > **There seems to be some movement away from the likes of “Patrick” and “Catherine” into the more esoteric Gaelic names.** Including the infamous “Kaitlin”, which is now pronounced “Kate-lynn” by thousands upon thousands of proud American parents… > [@](#): > > \*\*Are there any Beauregards north of the Mason-Dixon line? \*\* A few, but they’re all hanging by their underwear from schoolyard flagpoles. I used them as visual aids when explaining why I wouldn’t name either of my sons “Magnus” even if it _is_ a perfectly charming Scandinavian name. Incidentally, I know three Ians, and they’re all American… ---
**Author:** ![SuaSponte](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/67e7ee/32.png) [@SuaSponte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuaSponte)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2001, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-nigels-ians-and-ruperts-in-the-us/75130/13 "2001-08-06T19:35:56Z")
This doesn’t speak to Nigel, Ian, etc., but here goes. I was told once upon a time (i.e., no cites), that names like Mortimer, Ira, etc., were rather popular names among the elite in the mid-to-late 19th Century. Newly arrived immigrant Jewish families, eager to assimilate into U.S. culture, applied these names to their kids in droves. The elite, horrified at the thought that they would be associated with Jewishes, abandoned the names, switching over to Tom, Dick and Harry. Anyone know if there is any truth to this? Sua ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2001, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-nigels-ians-and-ruperts-in-the-us/75130/14 "2001-08-06T19:35:57Z")
Trevor. Trevor is one of those 100% British, 0% American names. Ian Dury did a song about someone named Trevor. **Flodnak** , thanks for pointing that out. The American mishandling of Caitlín always gets my Irish up. FTR: Caitlín is pronounced (approximately) “Kathleen”. (Note the acute accent on the second i, to ensure that it has the “ee” sound. Ignorant Americans don’t know acute accents.) The spelling Kathleen was good enough for earlier generations of Irish-Americans like the Kennedys. **elmwood** , a lot of those Western names you cited came direct from Britain. Dallas is Scottish, I think, while Austin and Sheridan are very English. Remember Austin Powers? Austin comes from a worn-down pronunciation of Augustine (who was the first bishop of Canterbury or something like that). **Jackknife Juggernaut** and **wordman** I too have always wondered about those very names myself. All I can think is that names are part of a language, and American English being somewhat different from British English, a partial disconnect on names is part of the natural course of things. There are way more American names that you won’t find in England, and most of those are original coinages by Southern Baptists, both white and black. You see, in denominations that use infant baptism, there’s always a clergyman at the christening to make sure the babies get standard saints’ names. But when the kid goes for several years without baptism, the parents are free to make up whatever unusual names they doggone well please. American naming patterns distinct from British were notorious even in Colonial days. Because of the American pioneers’ preference for Biblical names, the British nicknamed us “Brother Jonathan.” Note that none of the ultra-English names we’ve cited come from the Bible. There’s probably the root of your disconnect. “Ian” is a Scots form of John, but then your Presbyterians up in Scotland are where a lot of the American Bible thumping tendency has its roots. ---
**Author:** ![a35362](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@a35362](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/a35362)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2001, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-nigels-ians-and-ruperts-in-the-us/75130/15 "2001-08-06T21:47:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SuaSponte \* > \*\*This doesn’t speak to Nigel, Ian, etc., but here goes. > I was told once upon a time (i.e., no cites), that names like Mortimer, Ira, etc., were rather popular names among the elite in the mid-to-late 19th Century. Newly arrived immigrant Jewish families, eager to assimilate into U.S. culture, applied these names to their kids in droves. The elite, horrified at the thought that they would be associated with Jewishes, abandoned the names, switching over to Tom, Dick and Harry. > > Anyone know if there is any truth to this? > > Sua \*\* I heard this was the case with Irving Berlin. Irving is an English name! But now we think of it as a “Jewish” name. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2001, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-nigels-ians-and-ruperts-in-the-us/75130/16 "2001-08-06T22:00:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jomo Mojo \* > **(Note the acute accent on the second i, to ensure that it has the “ee” sound. Ignorant Americans don’t know acute accents.)** Well, really, why should they? It’s not their language. I doubt many Irish are aware of what the acute accent does in Welsh, either. > [@](#): > > There are way more American names that you won’t find in England Chad being the one that springs to mind. Has there ever been a British person called Chad? ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2001, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-nigels-ians-and-ruperts-in-the-us/75130/17 "2001-08-06T22:05:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by WordMan \* > \*\*Wait, wait, wait - I forgot “Mungo” - also a Scottish name, but I mean, c’mon: Mungo!! \*\* Technically, Mungo is a nickname - it’s the nickname for “Kentigern” (S. Kentigern is the patron saint of Glasgow and is often called S. Mungo.) ---
**Author:** ![elmwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmwood/32/3060_2.png) [@elmwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elmwood)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2001, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-nigels-ians-and-ruperts-in-the-us/75130/18 "2001-08-06T23:26:33Z")
Do [Mormons](http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/3450/) in the UK name their kids “LeNigel,” “LeIan” or “LaRupert?” ---
**Author:** ![a35362](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@a35362](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/a35362)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2001, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-nigels-ians-and-ruperts-in-the-us/75130/19 "2001-08-06T23:29:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ruadh \* > \*\*Chad being the one that springs to mind. Has there ever been a British person called Chad? \*\* Chad and Jeremy? ---
**Author:** ![snac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90db22/32.png) [@snac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snac)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2001, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-nigels-ians-and-ruperts-in-the-us/75130/20 "2001-08-06T23:30:44Z")
Well, I have never met an American Nigel, and only one American Rupert (whose father was British and whose sister was born in Scotland), but… There are lots and lots of Ians running around, at least in my part of the US. My classroom last year had one Ian (African-American). My classroom the year before had another (American Jewish). The school has had three others come through in the last several years. (One was technically Iain.) None were British by birth or parentage. It is true that I knew no Ians or Iains when I was growing up, but then that was a long time ago… [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-nigels-ians-and-ruperts-in-the-us/75130.md?page=2)