# Where are all the young Turk Republicans with new ideas, why is no one stepping up? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 17, 2009, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-young-turk-republicans-with-new-ideas-why-is-no-one-stepping-up/496696 "2009-05-17T01:20:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2009, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-young-turk-republicans-with-new-ideas-why-is-no-one-stepping-up/496696/81 "2009-05-19T21:29:34Z")
> [@NoJustice](#): > > If a _person_ does not take reality into account, it may be inevitable that said person will fail. That does not change the fact that politics is not overridden by reality. Wrong. As pointed out, reality overrode the political dogma of Soviet Union quite handily. > [@NoJustice](#): > > **elucidator** : > I have no idea how the concept of poisoning the well relates to anything said here. Throwing out the nonsense than the present, true accusations against the Republicans are the same as the past, false ones against the Democrats is poisoning the well. We’d probably also be treated to lines about how “the Republicans claimed to be right too !”, while failing to actually demonstrate that they were, except that I just pointed out that strategy. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2009, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-young-turk-republicans-with-new-ideas-why-is-no-one-stepping-up/496696/82 "2009-05-19T21:31:44Z")
[QUOTE=Der Trihs] And notably, you fail to actually argue against my point. [/QUOTE] You assertion was so vague, partisan and silly that I gave it all the attention I felt it deserved. To wit…😛 To amplify…:p:p:p -XT ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2009, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-young-turk-republicans-with-new-ideas-why-is-no-one-stepping-up/496696/83 "2009-05-19T21:33:01Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > 😛 > > Well, there you go. Well played! > > -XT [Tom Tomorrow puts it better.](http://www.salon.com/comics/tomo/2009/05/19/tomo/) ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2009, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-young-turk-republicans-with-new-ideas-why-is-no-one-stepping-up/496696/84 "2009-05-19T22:49:53Z")
Ah, no,\*\* Der\*\*. I meant this: > [@](#): > > …(I await with bated breath the emotional come-back along the lines of ‘But…THIS IS DIFFERENT!!’)… This is the rhetorical device of presuming your opponents answer, and purporting that such an answer belies the poverty of the opponents argument, kinda like, “See! I told you that’s what he’d say! That proves I’m right!” ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2009, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-young-turk-republicans-with-new-ideas-why-is-no-one-stepping-up/496696/85 "2009-05-19T23:45:00Z")
But not clever enough to get past your eagle eye, ehe 'luci? An well…c’est la vie. -XT ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-young-turk-republicans-with-new-ideas-why-is-no-one-stepping-up/496696/86 "2009-05-20T00:15:03Z")
Mostly, just wishing you wouldn’t do it anymore. Of course, I would trade you ten of those slightly dishonest rhetorical manuevers if you would just lose that “ehe” affectation you have afflicted yourself with. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-young-turk-republicans-with-new-ideas-why-is-no-one-stepping-up/496696/87 "2009-05-20T00:17:14Z")
Well, if wishes were fishes, and all that jazz. As for my ‘ehe?’ affliction/affectation…sorry. It bothers Hentor to much for me to give it up at this point. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-young-turk-republicans-with-new-ideas-why-is-no-one-stepping-up/496696/88 "2009-05-20T00:50:43Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > You assertion was so vague, partisan and silly that I gave it all the attention I felt it deserved. To wit…😛 > > To amplify…:p:p:p > > -XT Silly ? You are the one being silly, using “:p” like it proved something. And, I’ll note STILL refusing to actually try to refute my statements. ---
**Author:** ![NoJustice](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecb155/32.png) [@NoJustice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NoJustice)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-young-turk-republicans-with-new-ideas-why-is-no-one-stepping-up/496696/89 "2009-05-20T01:23:03Z")
A few of your statements have been refuted… the ones which are relevant, that is. (BTW, would it be “poisoning the well” to mention here that repetition != rebuttal?) As for those statements which have gone without objection, I can hardly blame **xtisme** for mocking your rhetoric. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-young-turk-republicans-with-new-ideas-why-is-no-one-stepping-up/496696/90 "2009-05-20T01:28:13Z")
> [@NoJustice](#): > > As for those statements which have gone without objection, I can hardly blame **xtisme** for mocking your rhetoric. Really ? And so the Republicans haven’t screwed up big time ? Aren’t in trouble demographically ? Aren’t composed of people with mutually contradictory or outright incoherent agendas ? I said that the difference between that and the rhetoric accusing the Democrats of being “liberals who only want to raise taxes, run up big deficits, stick it to the rich while giving it all to the poor, sucking up to the loony left”, is that the criticism of the Republicans is accurate. Prove me wrong. Instead of posting “:p” like it’s a meaningful rebuttal. ---
**Author:** ![NoJustice](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecb155/32.png) [@NoJustice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NoJustice)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-young-turk-republicans-with-new-ideas-why-is-no-one-stepping-up/496696/91 "2009-05-20T01:47:54Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Really ? And so the Republicans haven’t screwed up big time ? Aren’t in trouble demographically ? Aren’t composed of people with mutually contradictory or outright incoherent agendas ? Has anyone here claimed any of those things? I’ve specifically pointed out that I’m not making those claims, and have no interest in arguing them one way or another. I don’t see how you could have missed that since you quoted it. Note that your response did not receive a rebuttal because it was not a refutation. It was just more partisan rhetoric which you had already been made well aware, nobody was interested in debating with you. > [@](#): > > I said that the difference between that and the rhetoric accusing the Democrats of being “liberals who only want to raise taxes, run up big deficits, stick it to the rich while giving it all to the poor, sucking up to the loony left”, is that the criticism of the Republicans is accurate. Prove me wrong. In case you haven’t noticed, neither I nor apparently **xtisme** , have any interest in disproving your partisan rhetoric. > [@](#): > > Instead of posting “:p” like it’s a meaningful rebuttal. If you don’t think “:p” is a meaningful rebuttal, why do you assume that it was meant as such? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-young-turk-republicans-with-new-ideas-why-is-no-one-stepping-up/496696/92 "2009-05-20T01:54:58Z")
> [@NoJustice](#): > > Has anyone here claimed any of those things? **xtisme** , by equating the fake rhetoric against the Democrats to the true problems of the Republicans. > [@NoJustice](#): > > If you don’t think “:p” is a meaningful rebuttal, why do you assume that it was meant as such? I don’t; I regard it as **xtisme** ’s attempt to avoid giving a “meaningful rebuttal” that doesn’t exist. He has a habit of posting smileys instead of arguments when cornered. ---
**Author:** ![NoJustice](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecb155/32.png) [@NoJustice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NoJustice)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-young-turk-republicans-with-new-ideas-why-is-no-one-stepping-up/496696/93 "2009-05-20T01:58:04Z")
It’s true… there is no meaningful rebuttal to a complete lack of refutation. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-young-turk-republicans-with-new-ideas-why-is-no-one-stepping-up/496696/94 "2009-05-20T02:01:25Z")
> [@NoJustice](#): > > It’s true… there is no meaningful rebuttal to a complete lack of refutation. In other words, YOU have no actual argument either. ---
**Author:** ![NoJustice](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecb155/32.png) [@NoJustice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NoJustice)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-young-turk-republicans-with-new-ideas-why-is-no-one-stepping-up/496696/95 "2009-05-20T02:03:23Z")
And how did you manage that translation? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-all-the-young-turk-republicans-with-new-ideas-why-is-no-one-stepping-up/496696.md?page=4)