# Where are MY leather seats? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 30, 2005, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-my-leather-seats/296989 "2005-03-30T19:52:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![galt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/35a633/32.png) [@galt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/galt)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2005, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-my-leather-seats/296989/21 "2005-03-31T00:45:40Z")
> [@LionelHutz405](#): > > Stop beating yourself up because you aren’t as rich as others appear to be. This is a wonderful sentiment, and the difference between “as rich as others are” and “as rich as others appear to be” is definitely significant, as others have pointed out. I am not a rich person. I make enough money to get by without worrying about being able to pay my bills, but I do so partially because I have very little interest in owning things that make me **appear** wealthy. I drive a 10-year-old Ford Ranger (cloth seats!) and I live in a neighborhood that’s known to be “affordable.” I use coupons at restaurants. etc. That, and when I have been in debt, I’ve made a concerted effort to slowly and steadily get **out** of debt. On the other hand, I have friends who I **know** cannot afford their $700/month car payments and are never going to get anywhere because they are compelled to buy flashy things in order to appear successful. They do manage to fool people who don’t know them, but it doesn’t make them feel any better, because they know they’re faking it. ---
**Author:** ![chaparralv8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@chaparralv8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chaparralv8)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2005, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-my-leather-seats/296989/22 "2005-03-31T01:57:13Z")
> [@Nutty Bunny](#): > > I know where you’re coming from. I see some of these beautiful houses and cars and wonder what the owners do for a living and how I can do that, too. They can’t ALL be doctors, lawyers, etc. Can they? > > My husband and I are in our 30s and make about 60k per year. He has a 5 year old Neon and I just traded in the 97 Corrolla for a 05 Hyundai Accent\* (with a loan, of course). My first new car, but it had to be the bottom of the line model. I call it my clown car. > > We also just got a loan for a $20K used mobile home because we can’t afford $100 - $200K for an actual house. We want to have a baby, but I don’t know where we’re going to get a minimum of $600 per month for day care. Neither one of us can quit our jobs. We have maybe $7K in credit card debt–sizable, but not crippling. > > So, when I see these families of 4, pulling out of their driveways in their SUVs, I’m puzzled. How do they do it and what am I doing wrong? It’s very frustrating and I feel your pain. > > \*How sad is it that I consider it an accomplishment that I’m able to get a Hyundai Accent? :rolleyes: DINK, 45k post-tax, and struggling? You have an $400/month house on a $200/month lot, barely $200/month in bills in the warm months, and a $300/month car loan - your fixed expenses add up to under 25% of your post-tax income. Where’s the big sucking sound? Do you spend $500 every weekend for a night on the town? Do you gamble? Snort cocaine? ---
**Author:** ![gravitycrash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@gravitycrash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gravitycrash)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2005, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-my-leather-seats/296989/23 "2005-03-31T02:48:19Z")
Am I the only person who prefers cloth over leather seats? And yes, I know the difference between faux leather and real leather. To the op, my younger brother and sister in law have a house in the 350k range and one bmw m3 and a full size conversion van so that they are able to pull their 24’ cobalt ski/cruise boat. :rolleyes: The van is fully loaded including a dvd player with dual lcd screens for the backseat so their kids won’t get bored. They also have over 50k in credit card debt and I’ve never seen him so unhappy. My younger brother is also losing his hair and going grey at a rapid rate. Sometimes the simple things are best. ---
**Author:** ![velveeta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/13edae/32.png) [@velveeta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velveeta)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2005, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-my-leather-seats/296989/24 "2005-03-31T14:13:22Z")
> [@Katriona](#): > > For example, my brother is a cop in a suburb here generally noted for its ‘old money’ reputation. Most of the houses are wired so that when the security system is tripped, the PD gets called to check it out. He tells me that he’s been to several that have little more than a TV and a mattress inside - like the people wanted the ‘right’ address, but once they bought the Big House, they couldn’t afford to do anything with it. I’ve been in one of these. Huge 7,000 sq ft “McMansion” on 3 acres. Inside, the mattresses were on the floor, no furniture, no blinds and the only TV was so old it had dials and no remote. There’s another one in my neighborhood that’s the same deal, but they have 2 brand new BMWs in the garage - a X3 and a 645. That’s over $100,000 worth of new cars - except it’s not really since they depreciate so fast. It’s none of my business what they do with their money, but I wouldn’t want to live like that. I do find it funny when I get condescending comments about how I’m only 33 and one day “you’ll have this too.” Even more humorous when you consider that we live in what I like to call a yuppie tract house - it’s a cookie cutter development where all the houses look the same. So they have no idea what I make or what I have (I have blinds!), but I must be desperately unhappy to not have 2 expensive foreign cars parked in my driveway. I just smile and think of the $120,000 I have in the bank instead. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2005, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-my-leather-seats/296989/25 "2005-03-31T14:23:45Z")
I’d no sooner want leather seats than I’d want vinyl. Too hot and sticky in the summer… ---
**Author:** ![velveeta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/13edae/32.png) [@velveeta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velveeta)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2005, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-my-leather-seats/296989/26 "2005-03-31T14:39:03Z")
And for the record, my Jeep’s seats are made of wetsuit material. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![phall0106](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/phall0106/32/5934_2.png) [@phall0106](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phall0106)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2005, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-my-leather-seats/296989/27 "2005-03-31T17:11:00Z")
> [@BrotherCadfael](#): > > I’d no sooner want leather seats than I’d want vinyl. Too hot and sticky in the summer… Yes, I agree. And, in all honesty, I don’t like leather seats in cars. They’re hard and uncomfortable to sit upon, cold in the winter and hot in the summer. If you’re wearing something that’s anything other than…well, Velcro… and you brake, you can feel the pull on the seatbelt when your body slides forward against the seat. And god knows there’s no way I would ever be comfortable taking on a $400 (or more!) a month car payment, plus the cost of full insurance for a vehicle with a loan attached to it (the benefit of having no car loan is a relative small car insurance payment each month). However, I’d at least like to have the option of saying, “No, I don’t believe I’d like to have leather seats” because I don’t like leather seats, rather than because there’s no way in hell I can afford to have them. ---
**Author:** ![Nutty\_Bunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/d07c76/32.png) [@Nutty\_Bunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nutty_Bunny)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2005, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-my-leather-seats/296989/28 "2005-03-31T20:56:29Z")
> [@chaparralv8](#): > > DINK, 45k post-tax, and struggling? You have an $400/month house on a $200/month lot, barely $200/month in bills in the warm months, and a $300/month car loan - your fixed expenses add up to under 25% of your post-tax income. Where’s the big sucking sound? Do you spend $500 every weekend for a night on the town? Do you gamble? Snort cocaine? That’s what I’d like to know. On paper, we look great. We do have about $500 in student loan/credit card debt and I’ll admit that we’re doing better than we ever have and I’m glad to have a place that we will own in 10 years and two cars that were made in the last 5 years. We have the “luxury” of being able to buy a CD or a book and go out to dinner (chain only), but we buy our clothes at Target. We’re not overly spendthrifty. I guess what I’m getting at is that I don’t see how people who have a $800+ mortgage, child care and related baby expenses have any sort of life whatsoever. I don’t want or need a $300K house or leather seats, but I’d like to have a baby AND a little peace of mind that I’ll be able to pay for it. ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2005, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-my-leather-seats/296989/29 "2005-03-31T21:20:45Z")
[semi-related tangent]Eh, I think leather seats are disgusting. I don’t want to sit on someone else’s dead skin, thanks. But besides that, they smell so gross! And they’re nearly as uncomfortable as vinyl. I don’t get why they’re so popular. Give me comfy cloth upholstery any day, thanks. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2005, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-my-leather-seats/296989/30 "2005-04-01T13:02:08Z")
> [@OpalCat](#): > > [semi-related tangent]Eh, I think leather seats are disgusting. I don’t want to sit on someone else’s dead skin, thanks. But besides that, they smell so gross! And they’re nearly as uncomfortable as vinyl. I don’t get why they’re so popular. Give me comfy cloth upholstery any day, thanks. We paid to get (after market) leather seats installed in our Sienna because we have two kids and a dog. It’s much easier to wipe up ketchup and vacuum out dog hair on leather than on cloth. My neighbors got a new car about the same time we got ours but she got cloth upholstery. She called to inquire about the cost for converting to leather because the pretty tan upholstery already has several stains that she can’t get out. ---
**Author:** ![chaparralv8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@chaparralv8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chaparralv8)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2005, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-my-leather-seats/296989/31 "2005-04-01T13:10:41Z")
> [@Nutty Bunny](#): > > That’s what I’d like to know. On paper, we look great. We do have about $500 in student loan/credit card debt and I’ll admit that we’re doing better than we ever have and I’m glad to have a place that we will own in 10 years and two cars that were made in the last 5 years. We have the “luxury” of being able to buy a CD or a book and go out to dinner (chain only), but we buy our clothes at Target. We’re not overly spendthrifty. > > I guess what I’m getting at is that I don’t see how people who have a $800+ mortgage, child care and related baby expenses have any sort of life whatsoever. I don’t want or need a $300K house or leather seats, but I’d like to have a baby AND a little peace of mind that I’ll be able to pay for it. Well, if you own your home outright within 10 years it’ll all be worth it… see if you can pay an extra Bennie a month on this. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2005, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-my-leather-seats/296989/32 "2005-04-01T13:40:58Z")
Re the OP: > [@](#): > > It’s not necessarily a situation of “coveting my neighbors goods” as it is an envy of sorts of their ability to pull off the appearance of having it “all” (whatever in the hell that is). I guess what I’d really like is the ability not to break out into a cold sweat when my car makes a funny noise, or friends are making plans to get together and I have to use the “it’s not in the budget this time around” line, or shop at a consignment store (or the Salvation Army Thrift Store) for my clothes and the kids clothing. I’d really like the ability to hold off buying groceries, or paying the gas bill, or even buying a candy bar from the neighborhood kid selling them for band because it’s not payday yet. One day you’ll realize that it’s the struggle that you went through that made your kids the incredible people they are. A lot of children today grow up without struggle because their misguided parents think that it’s best to shelter their kids from all pain. It is to their detriment. Kids SHOULD hear the words “It’s not in our budget.” They SHOULD know the humility of walking around in second hand clothing. They SHOULD hear their mother crying over how she is going to pay the bills and then watch her get up the next day and carry on. Yes, it’s cliche, but being poor (relatively speaking) will build their character in ways that a new SUV with a built in DVD player will NEVER do. You don’t realize it yet because you’re still in the thick of it, but sharing these struggles together has bonded you in a way that “rich” people can never duplicate. ---
**Author:** ![Angel\_of\_the\_Lord](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/angel_of_the_lord/32/2949_2.png) [@Angel\_of\_the\_Lord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Angel_of_the_Lord)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2005, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-my-leather-seats/296989/33 "2005-04-01T14:12:49Z")
This is something that’s been happening a bit with my husband and I lately. Between the taxes. homeowner’s insurance, PMI, and actual mortgage, we have quite the monthly housing payment. (The actual principal & interest is only 587 or something a month. . .the payment is something like 930, because we pay the taxes and stuff with the payment). We make about 50K a year. It’s tighter than what we were paying before (400/mo in rent for a small house), but we thought it was worth it. Having a newer, larger house\* is something that greatly improves our quality of life; before, we lived in a tiny two-bedroom one-story bungalow, and the lack of space drove us NUTS. We both, however, drive cars with over 100K miles on them. In contrast, we have a couple that we’re friends with who also make approximately 50K. They both have brand-spanking new Honda Civics with all the snazzy little features, 18K apiece; they also go out to eat at expensive restaurants and the like. . .and live at home with their respective parents. With what I’m making, were I living at home rent-free, I could easily afford to buy a nice, shiny new car. I’d rather live on my own. It’s a matter of priorities. \*the house is NOT a McMansion. It’s not that big, and it was built back in 1985. It’s a nice tri-level with a two car garage, 3 bedrooms, a living room, a family room, 1 3/4 baths, and a kitchen/dining room combo. We paid about 100K for it. Just in case anyone gets the wrong idea. ---
**Author:** ![belladonna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9fc29f/32.png) [@belladonna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/belladonna)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2005, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-my-leather-seats/296989/34 "2005-04-01T14:33:10Z")
> [@Nutty Bunny](#): > > I guess what I’m getting at is that I don’t see how people who have a $800+ mortgage, child care and related baby expenses have any sort of life whatsoever. Well, unless they’re making a large amount of money they probably don’t have much of a life–unless they’re maxxing out credit lines left and right. But that’s okay, really. Once a baby comes you don’t have much time for a “life” as you know it now anyway. Something as simple as a walk in the park can easily become the day’s entertainment. As to the OP–I feel you. I’m also a solo mom, struggling to raise two babies on one income. Seeing 1/2 or more of your pay go straight into daycare can be frustrating, to say the least. On top of that, I don’t know anyone else my age with kids yet, so all of my peers are still running around with ridiculous amounts of disposable income, new toys, fancy clothes, etc. A discrepancy like that puts a pretty big strain on a friendship, and I’m sorry to say most have not held up. But I just remind myself that I’ve made the choices that brought me here, and I’ve got everything I need even though I might not have everything that I want. Kids grow, financial burdens shrink, and I’ve got plenty of time to chase the almighty dollar later if the mood strikes me. For now, I’m happy focusing on enjoying what I have, even if that is a 15 year old car and a 100 year old house. ---
**Author:** ![Nutty\_Bunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/d07c76/32.png) [@Nutty\_Bunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nutty_Bunny)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2005, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-my-leather-seats/296989/35 "2005-04-01T14:52:10Z")
> [@chaparralv8](#): > > Well, if you own your home outright within 10 years it’ll all be worth it… see if you can pay an extra Bennie a month on this. That’s the plan, once we do all the work on it that we’ve planned and purchased a few appliances. A few of the ones we have are gasping for breath as we speak. It’s nice to be paying almost $200 less than we were in rent so we can put it to good use on our own home. Like I said, we’re better off now than we ever have been and as long as I stop comparing myself to others who _seem_ to have more, everything will be fine. Now to find money for child care. Now that I think about it, my husband and I decided that we’re ready for a baby to be our “lives” anyway. At 34, we’d better get crackin’! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2005, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-my-leather-seats/296989/36 "2005-04-01T17:25:55Z")
“$800+ mortgage” I was reading as a mortgage for over $800,000 total. Not a monthly $800 payment… is that what was meant? That’s not that big… in fact that’s not really possible in a lot of areas of the country without putting down a massive downpayment. We bought our townhouse (northern VA) four years ago and our mortgage payment was $1600/month. We refinanced two years ago and it’s down to $1350… which is still pretty typical for the area. If we had bought a “real house” we’d have been paying much more than that. For three years before we bought that townhouse we rented a really run-down townhouse for $1250/month. I am glad I don’t live in an area with that high of housing costs anymore… ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Goob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c77e96/32.png) [@Mr.Goob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Goob)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2005, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-my-leather-seats/296989/37 "2005-04-01T17:57:17Z")
I wonder about the quality of life vs. the stress. My best friend and his wife combinded make 3x as much as I do. They live paycheck to paycheck and have lots of toys and shiney gizmos with buttons and knobs and dials. The bicker about money all the time. I have some toys with the buttons and knobs and dials of my own. They aren’t all the newest or bestest and fastest with the mostest. They are however all paid for. Some wants haven’t migrated into being needs for me. Like a cell phone, digital camera or a newer computer that’s from 1997 (still running Windows 95.) My in debt friends have several of each of these examples. It’s their money to spend as they wish, don’t dare complain to me about being broke. I made that clear a long time ago. In return I don’t whine (much) about what I’d like to have and refuse to run up a credit card to buy it. One upside is he lets me play with his toys sometimes. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2005, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-my-leather-seats/296989/38 "2005-04-01T18:02:49Z")
> [@Angel of the Lord](#): > > (The actual principal & interest is only 587 or something a month. . .the payment is something like 930, because we pay the taxes and stuff with the payment). That’s less than what I pay on just my monthly rent for a studio in Woodley Park. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2005, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-my-leather-seats/296989/39 "2005-04-01T18:14:04Z")
I heard on a news program the other night that the average American retires with about $35,000 in cash savings in the bank. A scary thought, if ever there was one. Would you rather have the transitory luxury of a Caddy, a cabin on a lake, four snowmachines, two motorcycles, a small plane, a couple of four-wheelers, a giant flat-screen TV, and an 8,000 sq.ft. home with the accompanying staggering debt load, or live a good retirement free from debt and worry? Put your extra money in a savings instrument and let the suckers pay some CEO’s salary. My wife and I paid taxes on about $200K last year. I drive a Honda and live in a condo. Having some money and not spending it foolishly don’t usually go together. At the moment, I’m going on six months unemployed. Am I glad I didn’t run out a buy a Lexus? Word! ---
**Author:** ![LordVor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/90ced4/32.png) [@LordVor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LordVor)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2005, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-my-leather-seats/296989/40 "2005-04-01T19:26:40Z")
> [@Angel of the Lord](#): > > Between the taxes. homeowner’s insurance, PMI, and actual mortgage, we have quite the monthly housing payment. [unsolicited financial advice] I really don’t believe in PMI. In almost all cases, you can take out a home equity loan to cover the difference between what your mortage balance is and the 80% equity value you need to not need PMI. So you take out the home equity loan, pay down the mortage balance by the same amount, and then pay the home equity loan payment instead of the PMI payment, which is usually about the same monetary expense, with two important differences: 1. The home equity loan payment actually goes towards your home equity, where PMI vanishes into the bank’s pockets. 2. The interest you pay on the home equity loan is almost always tax deductible. Sometimes, when you have a person who makes the same as you but who seems to be able to have more/better stuff, it actually is because they’re doing a bunch of seemingly little things like this that actually does give them more spendable money than you. [/unsolicited financial advice] [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-my-leather-seats/296989.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-my-leather-seats/296989.md?page=3)