# Where are the liberal trolls? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 30, 2014, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-the-liberal-trolls/703012 "2014-10-30T15:00:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2014, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-the-liberal-trolls/703012/81 "2014-10-31T12:17:59Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Why would a liberal troll try and troll a bastion of liberalism? To see what offensive stuff they could get away with before people catch on. And, yes, it has happened. I’ve seen a couple people bragging about it elsewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2014, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-the-liberal-trolls/703012/82 "2014-10-31T12:28:06Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Well, the OP was a bit sloppy in that one line, but I still think you’re reading wrong. You can make childish comments without trolling. You have to be doing both, per that definition. A childish comment, in and of itself, is not trolling. By SDMB definitions, at least the ones they are supposed to hold, no, it wouldn’t be trolling even if it came from a conservative and was aimed at a liberal. By the definitions of the OP, it would be. But my condolences to you at being lumped together with me. You and **Bricker** can commiserate - you are compared to me; he is being compared to **Der trihs**. :eek: > [@Colibri](#): > > [QUOTE=Clothahump] > > Now there’s a perfect example of liberal blindness. Actual conservative beliefs are NOT extreme in the slightest. I think you just supported **Der Trihs** point. If I didn’t know you were conservative, I would have assumed this remark was mockery. [/QUOTE] No, I don’t think it is mockery at all. His point, and it’s valid, is that the distortions and strawmen that liberal loonies make of conservative beliefs bear very little resemblance to what they/we actually believe. I would have thought that was obvious, especially in a case like **Der Trihs**. Anyone who believes anything **DT** says about conservatives - well, fits right in on the SDMB. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2014, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-the-liberal-trolls/703012/83 "2014-10-31T12:51:50Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > OK, but can you not put in the same category as **Shodan**? You so needed to close that post with “Regards.” I for one was stunned by seeing you linked with **Shobot**. Maybe if you cut your relevant content by 95%, added in the cleverness of saying things like “usual suspects,” and just became a total douchebag, then maybe. ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2014, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-the-liberal-trolls/703012/84 "2014-10-31T13:33:18Z")
How would it even be possible for a liberal to troll this board? If one were to post, “How did this guy get elected?”, with respect to John Boehner, the responses would be a lusty chorus of “Amen”. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2014, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-the-liberal-trolls/703012/85 "2014-10-31T13:40:14Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Yes they are; they are either blatantly evil or border on outright insane, when they aren’t _over_ that line. This is what I was getting at; I’m sure he absolutely believes that everyone who has conservative beliefs is either blatantly evil or insane, but in the real world, that’s a statement that has one foot across the trolling line. But nobody except for the local conservatives step in and call him out about it. But if someone came in and said that liberals are soft-headed do-gooders who basically want to throw other people’s money down the toilet on social programs instead of useful things like defense and infrastructure, he’d be accused of being a troll, even if that was what they believed. That “I disagree, therefore he must be a troll” factor and its inverse are pretty strong everywhere, as shown by the two examples. And **John Mace** , I wasn’t saying you believed the same things as **Shodan** … not at all. I’m pretty sure now I got my posters all scrambled up (having a baby at home who fusses all hours of the night can do that to you!). Regardless, you do stand out as someone who can post statements and views that are very contrary to the accepted wisdom around here without coming across as doing it to get a rise out of people, or for that matter, not sounding like you’re some sort of digital hermit who came out of the cave to blurt out something borderline crazy ( **DT** … looking at you) ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2014, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-the-liberal-trolls/703012/86 "2014-10-31T13:41:17Z")
> [@bump](#): > > No… I didn’t phrase that so well. I was saying that you’re able to articulate an opposite viewpoint that’s not well received without being perceived as a troll, even though a lot of other posters saying something similar would be viewed as such. > > In other words, I think everyone knows you’re not in it to piss everyone off when you post something that might be considered inflammatory to one side or the other, and you can’t really say that for other posters like **Der Trihs** or **Bricker**. This is an important issue. Because what you seem to be saying is that John Mace’s viewpoint is as conservative as that of conservatives who get attacked as troll, but that he expresses it in a non-trollish way and thus does not get so characterized. However, this is completely incorrect. John Mace _might_ be a conservative by the standards of this board, but that’s about it. By the standards of the US political spectrum he is a middle of the road, probably leaning slightly left. And this is why he doesn’t get attacked more than he does. This is not to say that tone and intelligence don’t make any difference in how a person is perceived. But they are over-rated. Ideology counts for a lot, and it can’t be overcome. [On a related note, I would describe Bricker himself as moderately conservative in terms of the US political spectrum, IOW on the left side of the Republican Party. (I believe he voted for Obama, at least once and possibly twice.) The reason he is perceived otherwise is partially because of the extent to which the SDMB spectrum differs from the US one, and partially because most of his engagements on this board feature him attacking/defending from the right, often vociferously.] ---
**Author:** ![crucible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@crucible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crucible)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2014, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-the-liberal-trolls/703012/87 "2014-10-31T13:42:24Z")
I don’t think anyone posting here knows what a troll is. Having a different opinion about anything, even an extreme one, is not trolling. It is trolling when a person posts in a way that provokes an extreme reaction, not caring if what they post is accurate or not, just provocative. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2014, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-the-liberal-trolls/703012/88 "2014-10-31T14:17:50Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > This is an important issue. Because what you seem to be saying is that John Mace’s viewpoint is as conservative as that of conservatives who get attacked as troll, but that he expresses it in a non-trollish way and thus does not get so characterized. However, this is completely incorrect. > > John Mace _might_ be a conservative by the standards of this board, but that’s about it. By the standards of the US political spectrum he is a middle of the road, probably leaning slightly left. And this is why he doesn’t get attacked more than he does. > > This is not to say that tone and intelligence don’t make any difference in how a person is perceived. But they are over-rated. Ideology counts for a lot, and it can’t be overcome. I disagree; I think although there is a significant ideological component to it, it’s a lot more in how it’s said than what you’re saying. What I was trying to say is that there are some posters who post views and comments that are considered controversial or inflammatory _here on the SDMB_ not in the real world, but do it in a productive way, and aren’t characterized as trolls. ( **John Mace** comes to mind). Then there are others who either through lack of message board social skills or sheer ignorance, post stuff that’s hyperbolic and most likely inflammatory in the real world, and because of the way the wind blows around here, are either lit up for being conservative trolls, or are just kind of given a pass because they’re just a little more extreme than the general feeling around here ( **Der Trihs** again…) I mean, there’s no non-bizarro world in which saying that conservative belief is “either blatantly evil or border on outright insane, when they aren’t over that line” isn’t considered hyperbolic and/or inflammatory. And in a neutral forum, that would be considered trolling, but around here, there’s a sort of tolerance of that kind of thing, because it’s just an extension of the general thoughts of the members, and we all accept hat as crazy as it sounds, he actually believes that and isn’t trying to get a rise out of us. But if someone came in and said the conservative equivalent in all earnestness, he’d be decried as a troll and possibly banned if he kept it up. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2014, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-the-liberal-trolls/703012/89 "2014-10-31T14:25:35Z")
> [@crucible](#): > > I don’t think anyone posting here knows what a troll is. Having a different opinion about anything, even an extreme one, is not trolling. It is trolling when a person posts in a way that provokes an extreme reaction, not caring if what they post is accurate or not, just provocative. See my post, #16 above. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2014, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-the-liberal-trolls/703012/90 "2014-10-31T14:41:29Z")
> [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](#): > > How would it even be possible for a liberal to troll this board? If one were to post, “How did this guy get elected?”, with respect to John Boehner, the responses would be a lusty chorus of “Amen”. Or it could be that many would say something like, “Who cares, it’s not my district”, as happened in **citizen5’s** thread. But hey, Carnac the Magnificent, why not give it a try and see how things turn out? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2014, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-the-liberal-trolls/703012/91 "2014-10-31T14:44:59Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > John Mace _might_ be a conservative by the standards of this board, but that’s about it. By the standards of the US political spectrum he is a middle of the road, probably leaning slightly left. And this is why he doesn’t get attacked more than he does. We libertarian-ish types don’t fit the standard left/right scale and “middle of the road” just misses the whole point that politics is not a one dimensional thing. Just because you’re neither left nor right, doesn’t mean you split the difference. I’m probably pretty far right on some things (taxes, trade, welfare) and pretty far left on other things (foreign policy, abortion, war, drugs). ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2014, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-the-liberal-trolls/703012/92 "2014-10-31T15:00:17Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > We libertarian-ish types don’t fit the standard left/right scale and “middle of the road” just misses the whole point that politics is not a one dimensional thing. Just because you’re neither left nor right, doesn’t mean you split the difference. I’m probably pretty far right on some things (taxes, trade, welfare) and pretty far left on other things (foreign policy, abortion, war, drugs). There are very few libertarians who actually hold elected office in this country. Where the rubber meets the road is how you actually vote and who you support. That’s the best way to boil it all down and measure it. By that standard, if you split the difference then you’re “middle of the road”. Which is what counts, for these purposes. Because if you lustily join in enough “Republicans are crazy” choruses, you get cut a lot more slack if you diverge from the orthodoxy on some other point, as compared to someone with the same tone who more frequently dissents. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2014, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-the-liberal-trolls/703012/93 "2014-10-31T15:07:39Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > There are very few libertarians who actually hold elected office in this country. So what? And besides, I purposely wrote “libertarian-ish” because I think most of us on this MB who lean that way don’t tend to be actual, capital L Libertarians. > [@](#): > > Where the rubber meets the road is how you actually vote and who you support. That’s the best way to boil it all down and measure it. No, because we’re offered a limited choice of candidates. > [@](#): > > By that standard, if you split the difference then you’re “middle of the road”. That’s just plain stupid. Someone who is a radical lefty on some things and radical righty on others averages out to “middle of the road”. Again, you need to think outside the line. I would say “box”, but that’s a 3-Dimensional object. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2014, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-the-liberal-trolls/703012/94 "2014-10-31T15:17:22Z")
It was a mistake for you to cut up that post and comment line-by-line. Each individual sentence was made in context of the larger point of the post, and your comments all miss the boat. I appreciate that your political identity is important to you but it means nothing to me, and I’m only discussing how to measure your overall position with specific regard to how it would be received by members of this board. ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2014, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-the-liberal-trolls/703012/95 "2014-10-31T15:36:46Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > Or it could be that many would say something like, “Who cares, it’s not my district”, as happened in **citizen5’s** thread. Sure they would. Enjoy your time in Fantasy Land. > [@El\_Kabong](#): > > But hey, Carnac the Magnificent, why not give it a try and see how things turn out? Because it would be trolling. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2014, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-the-liberal-trolls/703012/96 "2014-10-31T16:59:10Z")
> [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](#): > > Because it would be trolling. Now, now, we’ve established that if one sincerely believes whatever they’re posting, it’s not trolling. So please; have at it. Wouldn’t you like to see your prediction confirmed? You’d be able to sneer with impunity. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2014, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-the-liberal-trolls/703012/97 "2014-10-31T18:33:53Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Actual conservative beliefs are NOT extreme in the slightest. Only if by “actual” you mean what conservative used to mean – cautious, skeptical of change. But the radical-reactionary beliefs that are called “conservative” in American discourse nowadays are never anything **but** extreme any more. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2014, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-the-liberal-trolls/703012/98 "2014-10-31T18:36:50Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > His point, and it’s valid, is that the distortions and strawmen that liberal loonies make of conservative beliefs bear very little resemblance to what they/we actually believe. Then, every single Republican mentioned in [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=511831) – in most cases simply quoted/cited directly – is No True Conservative? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2014, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-the-liberal-trolls/703012/99 "2014-10-31T18:37:51Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > We’re becoming a society that finds truth offensive. For example? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2014, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-the-liberal-trolls/703012/100 "2014-10-31T18:40:15Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > We’re becoming a society that finds truth offensive. _Certain segments_ of society (such as yours?) often find truth to be inconvenient or even hostile to their preferred beliefs. But that’s why we’re here, isn’t it? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-the-liberal-trolls/703012.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-the-liberal-trolls/703012.md?page=6)