# Where are the Obamacare horror stories? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 4, 2014, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-the-obamacare-horror-stories/685307 "2014-04-04T02:01:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2014, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-the-obamacare-horror-stories/685307/41 "2014-04-04T18:24:47Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Did you have a catastrophic plan before? Can we get details to compare the two? It might be that your previous plan had a lot of holes in it that you aren’t factoring in. When I was starting my professional career, I drove a ten-year-old Nissan Sentra. It was serviceable, but it had problems; if I wanted to accelerate uphill I had to turn off the air conditioner. The back window could not be rolled down…actually it could, but it could not be rolled up again unless two people were involved: one to press their hands against the inside and outside and sort of pull up, and one to roll. I could have spent more money and gotten a better car, of course, but I wanted to save money for a house, and I was willing to endure the problems that driving a semi-crappy car entailed. The effect of the ACA is to say, in effect, “We’re not going to let you drive a crappy car. You must have a car that meets these certain minimum standards.” And that is, of course, within the purview of government to do. We already tell people, “We’re not going to let you work for less than this minimum wage, even if you are willing to. You may not have any job as a result, but any job you do have will be minimally compliant with this wage floor.” So we can certainly tell people, “You can no longer accept that old insurance policy. You must have one that meets these minimums.” I have two objections to this, though. The first is one of personal freedom: I admit the government has the power to mandate such things; I feel they should not. The second is that during the debate about the adoption of the ACA, people expressed fear that something like this would happen. And the President’s response was that such a fear was unwarranted: if you like your current plan, he famously intoned, you can keep it. He did not allude to the fact that this was not true unless your current plan met the minimum standard the government wished to enforce. Still, elections have consequences. If you elect a candidate who promises to push for health care reform, no one should be all that shocked to discover that he in fact pushes for health care reform. I don’t think, though, that it’s fair to dismiss the claims of the people who were told they could keep their plans, and now discover they can’t, by telling them that their new plan is more expensive but better. They didn’t want more expensive, any more than I wanted a big car payment back then. I was content to drive my so-so Nissan; they were content to have their so-so health plans. This thread asks for specific examples of people that experienced this kind of problem, and it seems to me you’re trying to defend the law that mandated the change rather than acknowledging that, for some people, it wasn’t what they were told would happen. ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2014, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-the-obamacare-horror-stories/685307/42 "2014-04-04T18:27:02Z")
> [@Sateryn76](#): > > How about this? As part of our employer insurance, we have a HSA account they dump $1000 into at the beginning of the year. Due to new regulations that are a part of Obamacare, those funds can no longer be used for eye exams and prescription eyewear/contacts. We have three people who wear glasses in our familes, so our annual eye expenses are about $1200. That’s now all out of pocket for us. When did that change? Everything I’ve read says HSA accounts can still be used for eyewear and exams. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2014, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-the-obamacare-horror-stories/685307/43 "2014-04-04T18:33:05Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > When I was starting my professional career, I drove a ten-year-old Nissan Sentra. It was serviceable, but it had problems; if I wanted to accelerate uphill I had to turn off the air conditioner. The back window could not be rolled down…actually it could, but it could not be rolled up again unless two people were involved: one to press their hands against the inside and outside and sort of pull up, and one to roll. > > I could have spent more money and gotten a better car, of course, but I wanted to save money for a house, and I was willing to endure the problems that driving a semi-crappy car entailed. > > The effect of the ACA is to say, in effect, “We’re not going to let you drive a crappy car. You must have a car that meets these certain minimum standards.” The “we’re not going to let you drive a crappy car” isn’t focused on trivialities about windows opening, climate control or reliability to get you to work. It’s focused on things like non-telescoping steering wheels, unreliable brakes, and pollution controls. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2014, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-the-obamacare-horror-stories/685307/44 "2014-04-04T18:36:31Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > The “we’re not going to let you drive a crappy car” isn’t focused on trivialities about windows opening, climate control or reliability to get you to work. It’s focused on things like non-telescoping steering wheels, unreliable brakes, and pollution controls. And using the ER because you don’t have good enough coverage to get routine care results in taxpayers covering the tab if you can’t pay. So if your crummy car doesn’t work, it’s like asking the taxpayers to cover the cost of a rental when your crappy car breaks down. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2014, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-the-obamacare-horror-stories/685307/45 "2014-04-04T18:38:08Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > And using the ER because you don’t have good enough coverage to get routine care results in taxpayers covering the tab if you can’t pay. > > So if you crummy car doesn’t work, it’s like asking the taxpayers to cover the cost of a rental when your crappy car breaks down. True. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2014, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-the-obamacare-horror-stories/685307/46 "2014-04-04T18:52:15Z")
My co-pay for seeing a specialist (I have ankylosing spondylitis) went from $35 per visit to $70. The AFA is probably an excuse for the insurance company to milk more money from people who will die if they don’t cough up the money. That is, I don’t think the increase was caused by the ACA, but the insurance company used it as an excuse. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2014, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-the-obamacare-horror-stories/685307/47 "2014-04-04T19:08:11Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](#): > > Do you have to be angry for it to be a horror story? At the very least, you should be _horrified_. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2014, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-the-obamacare-horror-stories/685307/48 "2014-04-04T19:44:55Z")
> [@Sateryn76](#): > > How about this? As part of our employer insurance, we have a HSA account they dump $1000 into at the beginning of the year. Due to new regulations that are a part of Obamacare, those funds can no longer be used for eye exams and prescription eyewear/contacts. We have three people who wear glasses in our familes, so our annual eye expenses are about $1200. That’s now all out of pocket for us. > > This is in addition to the $650 per month we pay, and a deductible of $5000 per person, per year. That’s not an Obamacare problem, but it’s getting a little ridiculous. We are healthy, and spend zero time on medical care. We pay $13000+ for medical care a year, on the off chance someone may need $13001 for medical services in a given year. It’s been maybe seven years since we’ve needed extensive medical care, so lets’s see…that’s $91k lost, or if you just tally up the premiums we pay, that’s $54000 for insurance that is useless to us. That’s two nice cars, or my daughters entire college tuition for the local Purdue satellite campus. > > I’m seriously leaning toward just paying the penalty - I’m self employed, so our refunds don’t exist anyway. If I stuffed that $7200 a year in a mutual fund, the returns may be worth it. I assume you also don’t bother with fire insurance because your house never burned down before. Health insurance is \*\* insurance\*\*. The nature of the beast is that the vast majority of those who get it get less money out than they put in. But everyone gains the peace of mind to know that in case something terrible does happen, their risk will be mitigated. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2014, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-the-obamacare-horror-stories/685307/49 "2014-04-04T23:05:13Z")
A lot of people who didn’t sign up during the Initial Enrolment Period are in for a [surprise](http://news.yahoo.com/health-insurance-isnt-round-thing-anymore-075212194--politics.html) if they decide they want insurance after all. Virtually all insurers have decided to stop selling direct policies outside of the Annual Enrolment Period (baring qualifying life events). I can’t say I blame them. Now that pre-existing exclusion periods are out the window the AEP is pretty much their only defence against people putting off buying insurance until they get sick or pregnant. > [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Why? If you are not eligible for any subsidy, why not just buy a policy in the individual market, direct from the insurance company? AFAIK you need to go through the Marketplace to even find out if you qualify for a subsidy. > [@dracoi](#): > > …The real kicker, for me, is that I have yet to receive a single dollar in benefit from my insurance. For seven years, it’s been something I keep just in case, but it really does nothing but generate paperwork telling me that I’m not over my deductible. Well you are paying the wholesale rate your insurance company negotiated with the provider instead of whatever retail rate they charge. You could always try bargaining directly with the provider & paying cash, but that won’t get you very far. > [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](#): > > …Good insurance was actually pretty cheap for young healthy people (especially men) before the provisions went into effect protecting everybody else… Yeah, I had a direct-pay individual policy last year that wasn’t ACA complainant. So by purchasing the cheapest bronze plan in my area (from the same insurer) my premium almost doubled, my deductible almost tripled, and the provider network narrowed. But I know have full maternity coverage, which as a gay man I’m sure to find useful. :rolleyes: And I still have to pay more for my car insurance than if I were a woman. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2014, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-the-obamacare-horror-stories/685307/50 "2014-04-05T01:38:04Z")
> [@Hershele\_Ostropoler](#): > > After six months, I’m puzzled by how vanishingly rare this is: someone who had insurance in 2013, learned their plan was ending or their premiums were going up, and successfully accessed the exchange but found only plans that covered less, cost more, or both. It is vanishingly rare, but I am one of those people. Of course, much like **alphaboi867** I chose a policy not caring that it didn’t include pregnancy/maternity benefits. As I continue to say, though, before Obamacare my daughter couldn’t even get a quote for medical insurance, much less a policy, due to pre-existing conditions. Overall I consider it a net positive. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2014, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-the-obamacare-horror-stories/685307/51 "2014-04-05T02:46:44Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > As I continue to say, though, before Obamacare my daughter couldn’t even get a quote for medical insurance, much less a policy, due to pre-existing conditions. Overall I consider it a net positive. Then I fond my increase in co-pay to be good. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![davida03801](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5e925/32.png) [@davida03801](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davida03801)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2014, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-the-obamacare-horror-stories/685307/52 "2014-04-05T15:48:51Z")
According to this news story [http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/melanie-hunter/it-s-loss-md-73k-lose-insurance-60k-enroll-exchange](http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/melanie-hunter/it-s-loss-md-73k-lose-insurance-60k-enroll-exchange) In Maryland 73,000 lost insurance due to Obamacare, while 60,000 enrolled. You not think that is a horror story? I would assume it is to the 13,000 families that lost insurance. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2014, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-the-obamacare-horror-stories/685307/53 "2014-04-05T15:52:04Z")
I clicked your link, and now there’s a brown stain on my monitor. I’ll bill you. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2014, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-the-obamacare-horror-stories/685307/54 "2014-04-05T15:56:56Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > My co-pay for seeing a specialist (I have ankylosing spondylitis) went from $35 per visit to $70. The AFA is probably an excuse for the insurance company to milk more money from people who will die if they don’t cough up the money. > That is, I don’t think the increase was caused by the ACA, but the insurance company used it as an excuse. This is, as far as I’m concerned, the single greatest flaw in the ACA: we’re shoveling customers to for-profit insurance companies. Anyone who thinks that the ACA is socialist is willfully blind. It’s capitalism–mandated and regulated by the government, sure, but capitalism nonetheless–and the hope was that somehow we could insure more people, and therefore provide more care, while still ensuring a tidy profit for insurance companies. And they’re doing their damnedest to make absolutely certain that it’s as tidy as it can possibly be. Your deductible went up? Sure, blame ACA if you want to…but blame your insurance company first. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2014, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-the-obamacare-horror-stories/685307/55 "2014-04-05T15:59:52Z")
> [@andros](#): > > This is, as far as I’m concerned, the single greatest flaw in the ACA: we’re shoveling customers to for-profit insurance companies. Anyone who thinks that the ACA is socialist is willfully blind. It’s capitalism–mandated and regulated by the government, sure, but capitalism nonetheless–and the hope was that somehow we could insure more people, and therefore provide more care, while still ensuring a tidy profit for insurance companies. And they’re doing their damnedest to make absolutely certain that it’s as tidy as it can possibly be. > > Your deductible went up? Sure, blame ACA if you want to…but blame your insurance company first. If insurers are doing things in reaction to the ACA that they wouldn’t have otherwise done, I’m going to blame the ACA first. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2014, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-the-obamacare-horror-stories/685307/56 "2014-04-05T16:02:49Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > If insurers are doing things in reaction to the ACA that they wouldn’t have otherwise done, I’m going to blame the ACA first. Because your insurance company would never lie to you… ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2014, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-the-obamacare-horror-stories/685307/57 "2014-04-05T16:11:53Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Because your insurance company would never lie to you… Of course they would. I’m not proposing that we take their word for it, but merely responding to the conditions laid out by that poster. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2014, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-the-obamacare-horror-stories/685307/58 "2014-04-05T16:26:59Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > If insurers are doing things in reaction to the ACA that they wouldn’t have otherwise done, I’m going to blame the ACA first. Sounds fair at first glance, but then again, among the things that insurers are doing in reaction to the ACA that they wouldn’t have otherwise done is enrolling patients with pre-existing conditions, no longer denying claims due to pre-existing conditions, and no longer offering junk policies that offer only the illusion of coverage. Some of the other things they’re doing, like hiking rates whenever they can get away with it, is a reaction to that, and they’re doing it because they can. An interesting question here is whether they’d still be doing that if the ACA had included a public option whereby government-run health insurance directly competed with them. But it seems that AHIP more or less locked up Congress to make sure that would never, ever happen, almost as if they feared it might impact the insurers in a really bad way, because somehow people might prefer the government-run option. :rolleyes: As an aside, I mention this only because it warms the cockles of my heart so much, there is the legislation governing health insurers [that was passed in Canada many years ago](http://www.parl.gc.ca/Content/LOP/researchpublications/944-e.htm). Long story short and oversimplifying slightly, it basically directed them to pack their bags and get their sorry asses out of country. That actually worked out quite well. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2014, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-the-obamacare-horror-stories/685307/59 "2014-04-06T04:50:19Z")
I used to buy the idea that increased cost or decreased coverage was just an excuse, but then I stumbled on way too many people in the same boat. This board is the only place I know of that has people where people who already had insurance came out the same or ahead. And the cost in the marketplace is nowhere near competitive with those subsidized by the companies. It was triple the cost to get the same coverage my sister previously had. And, yes, I put a big emphasis on the lie by the President that people could keep their old plans. Sure, the costs tend to stay about the same, but the benefits decrease. My sister doesn’t think she will be able to afford going to the doctor, and is already planning to go buy and use the amoxicillin used for cleaning fish tanks instead of going to the doctor. My family doctor also claims that Obamacare has meant he gets fewer prescription samples, and that, since January, he’s found that a lot of companies are no longer giving out the freebies that they used to. My mom, for example, can’t get her Celebrex, and has taken the last set of samples. Now, I don’t know if the doctor is confusing correlation and causation, but it does make me suspicious. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2014, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-the-obamacare-horror-stories/685307/60 "2014-04-06T14:25:38Z")
Hillary wanting people to pay a fine and his not during the primary campaign was more of a lie. As I said, I believe the insurance and pharmaceutical companies are making the most of the AHCA. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-the-obamacare-horror-stories/685307.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-the-obamacare-horror-stories/685307.md?page=4)