# Where are the ordinary-looking gay men? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 5, 2005, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-the-ordinary-looking-gay-men/302576 "2005-05-05T19:10:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![WeRSauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f19dbf/32.png) [@WeRSauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WeRSauron)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2005, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-the-ordinary-looking-gay-men/302576/1 "2005-05-05T19:10:09Z")
When the media wants to portray a gay man, he is almost always well-dressed, fit (or, at least, not overweight), and usually quite cute. Not to throw stones at my own glass house, but the gay media is especially guilty of this: every gay man seems to be to die for. Now, I wouldn’t be so troubled by this if it weren’t for the fact that when I go to Boystown and pass by Andersonville - which are Chicago’s gay areas - the gay men I see fit the media portrayal: well-dressed, fit, cute. Now, I ask ye, where are the ordinary-looking gay men, especially in the media? Do they exist? If any other ordinary or less than stellar-looking gay men exist on this board, how do they/you feel about this portrayal? WRS - Billions of miles from the media’s model. ---
**Author:** ![tremorviolet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e47774/32.png) [@tremorviolet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tremorviolet)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2005, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-the-ordinary-looking-gay-men/302576/2 "2005-05-05T19:16:19Z")
Remember that John Goodman series, [Normal, Ohio](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0247090/)? He played an average looking, sloppy gay guy. It was refreshing… ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2005, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-the-ordinary-looking-gay-men/302576/3 "2005-05-05T19:32:01Z")
Seen Elton John lately? ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2005, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-the-ordinary-looking-gay-men/302576/4 "2005-05-05T19:38:11Z")
The bar I hang out at, while not a gay bar by any strech has many “normal” looking gays of both sexes. They shoot pool, throw darts or just sit at bar and get drunk. Just like us “normal” folks do! Come on, the media dosen’t even show us the “normal” normal people, they always pick out the cute ones. People don’t want to see normal, they want to see the extremes of humanity. Either really cute or really bad, normal is just that, normal. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2005, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-the-ordinary-looking-gay-men/302576/5 "2005-05-05T19:38:59Z")
Will on Will & Grace is normal, though Jack is beyond a stereotype. John on the Simpsons. ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2005, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-the-ordinary-looking-gay-men/302576/6 "2005-05-05T19:42:56Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > Will on Will & Grace is normal, though Jack is beyond a stereotype. Will is normal-_looking_ to you? Where do you live and how do I get there, preferably six minutes ago? ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2005, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-the-ordinary-looking-gay-men/302576/7 "2005-05-05T20:03:45Z")
Older gay men in the media (and in real-life) are often normal looking, albeit well-groomed. Media portrayals include, say, the guy on **Roseanne** , and Smithers, and I’m sure there’s more that I’m not thinking of. For that matter, the “older” member of a gay ensemble cast is often a lot more “normal” - Ted from Queer Eye, and Ted from Queer as Folk, for example. ---
**Author:** ![Licentious\_Ectomorph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/5e9695/32.png) [@Licentious\_Ectomorph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Licentious_Ectomorph)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2005, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-the-ordinary-looking-gay-men/302576/8 "2005-05-05T20:05:52Z")
> [@Priceguy](#): > > Will is normal-_looking_ to you? Where do you live and how do I get there, preferably six minutes ago? FWIW, Will does nothing for me either. I feel similarly about Brian on _Queer as Folk_. I love the show dearly, but I just can’t get on board with Brian supposedly being this irresistible sex god whom everyone wants to sleep with. If I saw him in a club I wouldn’t look twice, and if he hit on me I’d tell him to go pound sand. On the other hand, Ted is portrayed as a loser who can’t get laid, but in real life I don’t think he’d have any problem. ---
**Author:** ![chaoticbear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f07891/32.png) [@chaoticbear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chaoticbear)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2005, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-the-ordinary-looking-gay-men/302576/9 "2005-05-05T20:08:02Z")
Well, if it helps any, I’m pretty average-looking. Want to judge? [Here you go.](http://www.photobucket.com/v321/theygoboom13) ---
**Author:** ![fiddlesticks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddlesticks/32/18129_2.png) [@fiddlesticks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fiddlesticks)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2005, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-the-ordinary-looking-gay-men/302576/10 "2005-05-05T20:10:26Z")
David Fisher on _Six Feet Under_ is quite plain, or perhaps even “Hollywood Ugly”. Certainly he’s not nearly as neurotic about his style as Will is on _Will & Grace_. ---
**Author:** ![Licentious\_Ectomorph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/5e9695/32.png) [@Licentious\_Ectomorph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Licentious_Ectomorph)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2005, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-the-ordinary-looking-gay-men/302576/11 "2005-05-05T20:17:08Z")
> [@fiddlesticks](#): > > David Fisher on _Six Feet Under_ is quite plain, or perhaps even “Hollywood Ugly”. Certainly he’s not nearly as neurotic about his style as Will is on _Will & Grace_. PLAIN?! I think he’s adorable! I’d take him over his brother any day. ---
**Author:** ![ZeroGyro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47774/32.png) [@ZeroGyro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZeroGyro)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2005, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-the-ordinary-looking-gay-men/302576/12 "2005-05-05T20:19:17Z")
[QUOTE=Licentious Ectomorph] I feel similarly about Brian on _Queer as Folk_.QUOTE] I googled him and saw a pic of the actor. Am I only one who thinks he looks a lot like Jason Bateman (a very skeezy Jason Bateman, at that). ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2005, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-the-ordinary-looking-gay-men/302576/13 "2005-05-05T21:06:02Z")
I once saw an episode of Will and Grace that featured Will trying to help a newly out guy get into the gay scene. The newly out guy was nowhere near cute. Big glasses, weird beard and wore an ugly winter sweater out of the club. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2005, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-the-ordinary-looking-gay-men/302576/14 "2005-05-05T21:10:05Z")
We ordinary-looking gay men are all around you. But, of course, you don’t know it \*\*because \*\*you’ve bought into the stereotype. Next time you see a cute guy, assume he’s straight. Next time you see an ordinary-looking guy, assume he’s not. Of course in the media, most people are fabulous on the outside and ordinary on the inside; exactly the opposite of reality. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2005, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-the-ordinary-looking-gay-men/302576/15 "2005-05-05T21:15:25Z")
Ordinary-looking People Not Particularly Photogenic! Film at 11! Only, not. ---
**Author:** ![Licentious\_Ectomorph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/5e9695/32.png) [@Licentious\_Ectomorph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Licentious_Ectomorph)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2005, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-the-ordinary-looking-gay-men/302576/16 "2005-05-05T21:51:22Z")
> [@Push You Down](#): > > I once saw an episode of Will and Grace that featured Will trying to help a newly out guy get into the gay scene. The newly out guy was nowhere near cute. Big glasses, weird beard and wore an ugly winter sweater out of the club. That guy was [Dan Futterman](http://www.club35plus.co.uk/futterman-dan.jpg), and as you can see they just uglied him up for the show. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2005, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-the-ordinary-looking-gay-men/302576/17 "2005-05-05T22:03:55Z")
> [@Licentious Ectomorph](#): > > That guy was [Dan Futterman](http://www.club35plus.co.uk/futterman-dan.jpg), and as you can see they just uglied him up for the show. Actually, I thought he was cuter on the show. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2005, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-the-ordinary-looking-gay-men/302576/18 "2005-05-05T22:23:24Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > Actually, I thought he was cuter on the show. Me, too, but then I go for the schlubs. I like a man with a little body fat, thank you. And facial hair. And glasses. Kee-YOOT! ---
**Author:** ![Hamish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a5b964/32.png) [@Hamish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamish)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2005, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-the-ordinary-looking-gay-men/302576/19 "2005-05-05T22:25:50Z")
I think this is a media problem. Hollywood and LA can overcome any prejudice except lookism. Hollywood can portray any minority group sympathetically, as long as they’re good-looking. That said, there is a problem of impossible beauty standards in our community that pretty much requires a guy to spend his life in a gym. Party I think that’s homophobia-induced low-self-esteem, partly I think it’s a reaction to AIDS. And people who buy into the standards try to impose them on others. I’ve decided I don’t like the gym bunny type – though maybe that’s just a reaction to having had it pushed on me for so long. Most of the guys I’m attracted to are either thin or chubby, not muscular. ---
**Author:** ![DMark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@DMark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMark)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2005, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-the-ordinary-looking-gay-men/302576/20 "2005-05-05T23:03:59Z")
I have been to Gay bars all over the world, and for the most part, there are usually 2-4 really hot guys surrounded by 10-15 average guys and about 30-40 less-than-perfect guys in the periphery. However, then I moved to West Hollywood, CA. If you ever want to feel like a toad, go hang out there for a while. There are some good reasons for it being that way. As a quasi-Gay Mecca, good looking Gay boys from all over the US and foreign countries flock to the city to become actors/models. Competition is fierce, and soon you get your gym membership, then you get a job to pay for those clothes at Fred Siegel, then you need the right hair cut and get those teeth capped and, well…pretty soon you have some Gay bars in the Boy’s Town area of WeHo that actually do look like an open casting call for GQ Magazine. So I think the answer to where are the average looking Gay guys? Try a bar in Boise, or a bar in Fort Wayne, Indiana or Hannover, Germany or, or, or. Still, the average Gay man does probably care more for his appearance than a straight guy might – as well they should. It ain’t easy to attract another man if you don’t at least try to look a little better than the other men standing next to you. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-the-ordinary-looking-gay-men/302576.md?page=2)