# Where are we going? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 5, 2007, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-we-going/406859 "2007-06-05T16:30:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![lightwait](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bcef8e/32.png) [@lightwait](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lightwait)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-we-going/406859/1 "2007-06-05T16:30:08Z")
The Kingdom of God/Heaven: The Christian community has a place for all of man to go—evolve into, if you must. Where does the secular community have for all of man to go? Please treat this as an honest question and not an accusation. Blessings ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-we-going/406859/2 "2007-06-05T16:32:52Z")
[QUOTE=lightwait] The Kingdom of God/Heaven: The Christian community has a place for all of man to go—evolve into, if you must. Where does the secular community have for all of man to go? Please treat this as an honest question and not an accusation. Blessings [/QUOTE] I think most secular people believe life stops with death, so they are not going anywhere. Just don’t exist anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Bibliovore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Bibliovore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bibliovore)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-we-going/406859/3 "2007-06-05T16:34:06Z")
[QUOTE=lightwait] The Kingdom of God/Heaven: The Christian community has a place for all of man to go—evolve into, if you must. Where does the secular community have for all of man to go? Please treat this as an honest question and not an accusation. Blessings [/QUOTE] If this is a serious question, then “the secular community” (by which I take it you mean atheists) tends to believe that there _isn’t_ anywhere to “go”. Once you’re dead, that’s it, end of story. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-we-going/406859/4 "2007-06-05T16:35:28Z")
The people who believe in Santa Claus offer an amazing story that promises presents for everyone once a year. What do Santa non-believers offer? Nothing. Therefore, Santa Claus must exist. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-we-going/406859/5 "2007-06-05T16:45:58Z")
**lightwait** , you really need to flesh out your thesis, here. As you will note, your first three respondents each made significantly different assumptions regarding your question and each answered you from the basis of their personal beliefs _without regard to **your** (vaguely implied) personal beliefs_. If you want a serious answer or discussion, I suggest you put some thought into laying out your own beliefs and definitions. (What is the “secular community,” for example?) Good luck. I’m gonna need it. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-we-going/406859/6 "2007-06-05T16:51:58Z")
[QUOTE=lightwait] Where does the secular community have for all of man to go? [/QUOTE] The general direction of the [Virgo Cluster of Galaxies.](http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap050508.html) As far as I’m concerned, anything beyond that is gravy. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-we-going/406859/7 "2007-06-05T17:03:09Z")
We atheists like to quote this, from the Atheist Bible: _Remember man, that thou art dust and unto dust thou shalt return._ ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-we-going/406859/8 "2007-06-05T17:12:40Z")
Generally into a hole or a fire. The atoms that made up the person’s body don’t “go” anywhere. Oh - and the idea of ascending into heaven during the afterlife bears no relation to what most secularists - and other careful users of the English language - understand by “evolution.” ---
**Author:** ![hotflungwok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/edb3f5/32.png) [@hotflungwok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hotflungwok)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-we-going/406859/9 "2007-06-05T17:18:49Z")
[QUOTE=lightwait] The Kingdom of God/Heaven: The Christian community has a place for all of man to go—evolve into, if you must. [/QUOTE] You aren’t evolving into heaven. You die, and you believe a part of you for which there is no objective evidence goes to a place for which there is no objective evidence. Evolution really doesn’t enter into it. Until you can actually show that heaven is real, or your soul exists, then you don’t have anything to offer. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-we-going/406859/10 "2007-06-05T18:00:46Z")
[QUOTE=lightwait] Where does the secular community have for all of man to go? [/QUOTE] [Secular humanism](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secular_humanism) has no teleology as such, but humanists generally want a better world in **this** life for human beings. I don’t think it’s even debatable that application of reason is much likelier to get us to a better life-in-this-world than is any form of faith, prayer or superstition – so long as “application of reason” means learning as we go rather than rigorously applying some ostensibly rationalistic dogma like Marxism or Objectivism. As for evolution, please bear in mind it applies to species, not individuals, and that it is not a teleological process. In the scientific view, a currently existing organism is not “higher” or “better” than its distant ancestors of other species, it is simply adapted to its current environment; it might or might not be more complex than its ancestors, it might or might not be more intelligent, but biology assigns no value to either. ---
**Author:** ![Lanzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/74df32/32.png) [@Lanzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lanzy)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-we-going/406859/11 "2007-06-05T18:46:19Z")
Seconds before the moment of death, we all convert and go straight to heaven. ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-we-going/406859/12 "2007-06-05T18:58:35Z")
I don’t think the OP is trying to use a logical argument to convince us, but rather an emotional one. I know I’d rather not be gone forever after I die. I’d also like about twelve million bucks. Is there a religion that can give me that? ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-we-going/406859/13 "2007-06-05T18:59:02Z")
I’m getting uploaded. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-we-going/406859/14 "2007-06-05T19:09:21Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] We atheists like to quote this, from the Atheist Bible: _Remember man, that thou art dust and unto dust thou shalt return._ [/QUOTE] Ah, but did not Atheos himself say, _Believe unto me and thou shalt become dust again_? Only\* true\* believers get to go to to death, you know. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-we-going/406859/15 "2007-06-05T19:18:54Z")
[QUOTE=lekatt] I think most secular people believe life stops with death, so they are not going anywhere. Just don’t exist anymore. [/QUOTE] Some secular people believe in our lord and savior Jesus Christ. Secular =/= atheist. To everyone else. The OP did not try to convince anyone of anything. S/he gave us a snippet of insight into what s/he believes, and then asked a question. S/he started from the premise (assumedly) that s/he was addressing nonbelievers, so it’s not up to her to ‘prove’ anything. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-we-going/406859/16 "2007-06-05T19:24:18Z")
[QUOTE=Revenant Threshold] Ah, but did not Atheos himself say, _Believe unto me and thou shalt become dust again_? Only\* true\* believers get to go to to death, you know. [/QUOTE] What did Porthos and D’Artagnan say after that? ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-we-going/406859/17 "2007-06-05T19:31:07Z")
[QUOTE=mswas] What did Porthos and D’Artagnan say after that? [/QUOTE] We don’t talk about the Other Three in atheism, you know. Besides, those Aramists are pretty whacko. ---
**Author:** ![the\_PC\_apeman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac8455/32.png) [@the\_PC\_apeman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_PC_apeman)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-we-going/406859/18 "2007-06-05T19:39:57Z")
Doesn’t it strike you that wanting more after death is akin to greed? ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-we-going/406859/19 "2007-06-05T19:47:48Z")
[QUOTE=Mosier] I’d also like about twelve million bucks. Is there a religion that can give me that? [/QUOTE] Scientology. But ya gotta get in on the ground floor. Might be a bit late for that. In my neck of the woods, every couple of years or so a Fundamentalist Baptist church is busted for a Ponzi scheme. Same ground floor problem. Probably, you should just start your own. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-we-going/406859/20 "2007-06-05T19:52:17Z")
[QUOTE=Mosier] I’d also like about twelve million bucks. Is there a religion that can give me that? [/QUOTE] [You’re thinking too small!](http://www.subgenius.com/) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-we-going/406859.md?page=2)