# Where are we going? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 5, 2007, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-we-going/406859 "2007-06-05T16:30:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![Omegaman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e480ec/32.png) [@Omegaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omegaman)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2007, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-we-going/406859/341 "2007-06-13T01:56:32Z")
[QUOTE=Hubert Cumberdale] Then you lose the debate, such as it was. [/QUOTE] I can accept that defeat with my Heart intact . ---
**Author:** ![Omegaman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e480ec/32.png) [@Omegaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omegaman)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2007, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-we-going/406859/342 "2007-06-13T01:59:27Z")
[QUOTE=Papermache Prince] Really? You know what I loathe - people who claim to possess virtues they don’t show. Perhaps, Oh Mighty Christian Warrior, you can explain how labeling someone “as barren and desolate as a human being can be” is **not** judging them. As for me, when I judge someone, I’ll stand behind it - no weasel words like “lead me to believe.” [/QUOTE] I have been there . Have you ? Know one knows but you and I and Him . Still sure ? I loathe only one thing . Satan . And his works . And those who do them . Know any of them ? Plastic Prince ? ---
**Author:** ![Omegaman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e480ec/32.png) [@Omegaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omegaman)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2007, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-we-going/406859/343 "2007-06-13T02:07:05Z")
[QUOTE=Der Trihs] If opposing the ownership of human beings makes hateful - then sign me up for hate. If it means I am going to be destroyed, I’d rather be destroyed than owned. I’d rather be on the side of freedom than on the side of anyone who owns people. [/QUOTE] Then you are lost . Laying hands upon you is what it will take. Hope I don’t see you. You know what happened when Jesus came upon those posessed by evil spirits don’t you ? Read the Bible. ---
**Author:** ![Papermache\_Prince](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f05b48/32.png) [@Papermache\_Prince](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Papermache_Prince)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2007, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-we-going/406859/344 "2007-06-13T02:12:39Z")
[QUOTE=Omegaman] I have been there . Have you ? Know one knows but you and I and Him . Still sure ? [/QUOTE] I don’t give a flying fuck where you have been, where you are currently, and where you are going. Nor do you have the tiniest clue who I am, where I have been, and where I am. But, please, my all means - make your baseless, uninformed claims about me, if that serves your “god.” I would only ask that, if you choose to make another uninformed comment about me, you have the courage to do it in the Pit, where I can respond appropriately. ---
**Author:** ![Omegaman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e480ec/32.png) [@Omegaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omegaman)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2007, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-we-going/406859/345 "2007-06-13T02:21:02Z")
[QUOTE=Papermache Prince] I don’t give a flying fuck where you have been, where you are currently, and where you are going. Nor do you have the tiniest clue who I am, where I have been, and where I am. But, please, my all means - make your baseless, uninformed claims about me, if that serves your “god.” I would only ask that, if you choose to make another uninformed comment about me, you have the courage to do it in the Pit, where I can respond appropriately. [/QUOTE] Oh, I have Been there . Why don’t you take you’re double triple badass self thier ? You must have balls the size of planets. You big bad man size bitch. Bring all the hate your narrow ass has to muster . I shit far larger than you and do so on a daily basis . So , Make Your Fucking Move ! ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2007, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-we-going/406859/346 "2007-06-13T02:28:04Z")
[QUOTE=Omegaman] Then you are lost . Laying hands upon you is what it will take. Hope I don’t see you. You know what happened when Jesus came upon those posessed by evil spirits don’t you ? Read the Bible. [/QUOTE] I think you are too much into this thread, and your opponents are playing you. Now is the time to step back and heed the words of Jesus. Shake the dust off your feet and move on to others who will listen. It is no good to judge or shame or scare others into believing in God’s unconditional love for them. That kind of love is not taught, it is felt with every cell of your human body. It is not ordered, but freely given. It can not be shown, only experienced. Debate does not change truth, neither does it make understandable that which comes only with humility. It is the ego that traps us into self-destruction, and the destruction of ego that frees us into peace. Relax into the eternal love of your father. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2007, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-we-going/406859/347 "2007-06-13T02:28:36Z")
[QUOTE=Voyager] From another post - whyever would you say God created a Satan he can’t kill? Any evidence for this, besides you thinking he hasn’t? [/QUOTE] I don;t know if God can’t kill Satan, but if He does Satan would no longer be a created eternal being. The evidence for this is from scripture, Satan will be tormented in the lake of fire for ever and ever - this means Satan will not die. ---
**Author:** ![Papermache\_Prince](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f05b48/32.png) [@Papermache\_Prince](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Papermache_Prince)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2007, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-we-going/406859/348 "2007-06-13T02:29:29Z")
[QUOTE=Omegaman] Oh, I have Been there . Why don’t you take you’re double triple badass self thier ? You must have balls the size of planets. You big bad man size bitch. Bring all the hate your narrow ass has to muster . I shit far larger than you and do so on a daily basis . So , Make Your Fucking Move ! [/QUOTE] As you chose not to start a thread attacking me in the Pit - where it would be appropriate - and instead started your hysterical attack here, I have started the Pit thread myself. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2007, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-we-going/406859/349 "2007-06-13T02:37:43Z")
[QUOTE=Omegaman] Then you are lost . Laying hands upon you is what it will take. Hope I don’t see you. You know what happened when Jesus came upon those posessed by evil spirits don’t you ? Read the Bible. [/QUOTE] If someone “lays hands on me” I’ll have them arrested. Mystic Uber Holy Powers \< Guy With A Nightstick. And I don’t believe in evil spirits, or any variety of spirit. And I’ve read enough of the Bible to consider it both boring and evil. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2007, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-we-going/406859/350 "2007-06-13T02:38:08Z")
[QUOTE=kanicbird] In growth in Christ, and the Holy Spirit, I have found that you get a heightened awareness of the spiritual issues including the real effects of blessings and curses - it becomes part of our behavior and knowledge and we are to use that to further God’s kingdom. It seems like you are boiling it down to worldly issues on both the good and bad sides, instead of taking the issue of not being caught up in worldly issues but reject the world and do works in the Spirit. [/QUOTE] Thanks for giving my post some consideration and responding. I’m not sure what you mean by rejecting the world to do the work of the spirit. Could you elaborate? What I’m trying to say is that although we may like speaking of high spiritual matters, demons, blessings and curses, speaking in tongues or whatever, when it really comes down to it the true condition of our spiritual growth is measured by the love, patience, compassion, tolerance, and courage we exhibit in our day to day life and in our interaction with other people who are also God’s children. Reading the words of Jesus we see that plainly. It’s not a matter of worldly issues. It’s a matter of our true spiritual condition reflected in how we deal with the world we live in. > [@](#): > > My take of it is once one surrenders to Christ, Christ can do what He want ever He wants with you, since He owns you. What Jesus does do it free that person with the consequences of freeing that person will result in that person being free to serve God. I have no idea what that second sentence means. Are there any passages you think indicate that Christ owns us, or can do with us as he will. I sure don’t see that reflected in the lives of Christians. If it’s true then a lot of people must not have surrendered yet. I don’t mean that to be disrespectful but if it were true wouldn’t more people be more Christ like? You wouldn’t have to ever ask WWJD if that were the case. What do you think the passage in Hebrews means when it says we “go on to maturity” how about > [@](#): > > 1 Cor 3:1 Corinthians 3 > > 1And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. > > 2I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. > > 3For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men? or > [@](#): > > 1 Peter 2:1 Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings, > > 2As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby: > > 3If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious. or > [@](#): > > Phil 2:12Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. > > 13For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. > > Again I don’t currently accept this but this is the point of your belief I plan to look into, I just have not gone into it much. It seems to indicate a process of growth in which we actively participate doesn’t it? > [@](#): > > Demons are fully sentient beings, capable of emotion (James 2:19), Will (Matt 12:44), Intellect (Mark 1:24), Self Awareness (Mark 5:9), Ability to speak (many passages). It does appear that demons can be ‘bluffed’ but if the demon accepts the bluff or not is up to the demon. > There is no doubt that the name of Jesus is very powerful to them, but some demons might push the issue to see if the Jesus you speak of is truely the Christ or just a symbol that you use because it works. The demons were not the point at all. The point was that people who saw Jesus as Lord and thought they were doing his work, and doing things in his name, \*were still rejected \* by Jesus as not having the proper spirit. ---
**Author:** ![Omegaman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e480ec/32.png) [@Omegaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omegaman)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2007, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-we-going/406859/351 "2007-06-13T02:48:15Z")
[QUOTE=Papermache Prince] As you chose not to start a thread attacking me in the Pit - where it would be appropriate - and instead started your hysterical attack here, I have started the Pit thread myself. [/QUOTE] Well perhaps you’ll provide my sorry ass with a link plastic princess. I don’t see anything poppin’ up so far your bad ass ness’ ---
**Author:** ![Papermache\_Prince](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f05b48/32.png) [@Papermache\_Prince](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Papermache_Prince)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2007, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-we-going/406859/352 "2007-06-13T03:03:01Z")
[QUOTE=Omegaman] Well perhaps you’ll provide my sorry ass with a link plastic princess. I don’t see anything poppin’ up so far your bad ass ness’ [/QUOTE] Do you really think calling me “plastic princess” is going to get a rise out of me, when I chose the name “Papermache Prince” for myself? Pardon me if I wanted to take a few minutes to proofread the Pit thread. [Here it is](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=8673701#post8673701). My apologies to the other participants in this thread for this diversion from the main points. ---
**Author:** ![Autolycus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@Autolycus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autolycus)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2007, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-we-going/406859/353 "2007-06-13T03:26:51Z")
[QUOTE=Der Trihs] Love is little if any help in disasters. Kicking out the Bushites and reforming FEMA would do more to help in disasters than all the love in the world. Really this . . . fetishization of love I see so much of is creepy, and to be blunt, stupid. It’s just an emotion, neither good nor bad. Love does not conquer all, nor does it always provide a happy ending, nor is it superior to most other emotions. [/QUOTE] Agape put into action would do a lot of good IMO. But, I agree with your detest for the warm-fuzzy love applied to completely inappropriate situations. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2007, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-we-going/406859/354 "2007-06-13T03:35:21Z")
There’s nothing like unconditional love which, if not given, condemns you to Hell. ---
**Author:** ![Autolycus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@Autolycus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autolycus)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2007, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-we-going/406859/355 "2007-06-13T03:40:03Z")
[QUOTE=Bryan Ekers] There’s nothing like unconditional love which, if not given, condemns you to Hell. [/QUOTE] That’s not my belief, but I think I’m going to back out of this thread slowly now… ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2007, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-we-going/406859/356 "2007-06-13T04:55:37Z")
[QUOTE=Omegaman] Oh, I have Been there . Why don’t you take you’re double triple badass self thier ? You must have balls the size of planets. You big bad man size bitch. Bring all the hate your narrow ass has to muster . I shit far larger than you and do so on a daily basis . So , Make Your Fucking Move ! [/QUOTE] **Moderator’s Warning:** All right, there’s been a thread started in the Pit, there’s a link to it in this thread, so we won’t have any more of this in this thread, or in any other thread in Great Debates. And that of course goes for _everyone_. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2007, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-we-going/406859/357 "2007-06-13T05:24:43Z")
[QUOTE=kanicbird] I don;t know if God can’t kill Satan, but if He does Satan would no longer be a created eternal being. The evidence for this is from scripture, Satan will be tormented in the lake of fire for ever and ever - this means Satan will not die. [/QUOTE] That only proves that God is cruel enough to want to torture his creation for ever and ever, not that he cannot put an end to it. ---
**Author:** ![Omegaman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e480ec/32.png) [@Omegaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omegaman)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2007, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-we-going/406859/358 "2007-06-13T14:45:13Z")
I would like to apologize to everyone in this thread especially **kanicbird** I tried to hang in there but the constant attacks became a bit much and I allowed people to get the better of me. I will work on my debate skills and hopefully the next time I will be better prepared to do battle with those intent on seeing that Love has no place in helping our fellow man. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2007, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-we-going/406859/359 "2007-06-13T14:54:08Z")
[QUOTE=Omegaman] I would like to apologize to everyone in this thread especially **kanicbird** I tried to hang in there but the constant attacks became a bit much and I allowed people to get the better of me. I will work on my debate skills and hopefully the next time I will be better prepared to do battle with those intent on seeing that Love has no place in helping our fellow man. [/QUOTE] It takes a lot of courage to apologize, you honor yourself. Been down that road and survived, so will you. God Bless. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2007, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-we-going/406859/360 "2007-06-13T15:53:09Z")
[QUOTE=Omegaman] I would like to apologize to everyone in this thread especially **kanicbird** I tried to hang in there but the constant attacks became a bit much and I allowed people to get the better of me. I will work on my debate skills and hopefully the next time I will be better prepared to do battle with those intent on seeing that Love has no place in helping our fellow man. [/QUOTE] Being able to recognize our human errors and apologize is a sign of growth. Love certainly has a place in helping our fellow man but IMHO you must also be able to discuss and defend, without anger, the details of exactly how love can help us. Many will disagree and some will seek to ridicule. The test is to hang in there and learn to communicate more effectively, and move on. We will seldom change each others minds, but we can plant seeds. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-we-going/406859.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-are-we-going/406859.md?page=19)