# where could a dissatisfied american emmigrate? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 26, 2003, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-could-a-dissatisfied-american-emmigrate/164165 "2003-03-26T00:48:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![istara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e79b87/32.png) [@istara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/istara)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2003, 10:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-could-a-dissatisfied-american-emmigrate/164165/21 "2003-03-26T10:14:07Z")
**Australia** is a bad choice, because the media is fked right now, and immigration is a nightmare. I am currently going through the process, and went through absolute hoops trying to get enough points, as media is not a desired/required profession there. **New Zealand** might be easier, because there getting an offer of a job gives you a lot of points that contribute towards permanent migration, plus it’s easier to get work sponsored temporary migration there. (In Australia you aren’t even allowed to jobhunt until you have a work visa). New Zealand has a greater desire for skilled migrants, and IMO its application process is much more proactive and well thought out than Australia’s. Eg - it has a list of pre-approved international universities where your qualifications automatically count for a certain number of points. In Australia, you have to go through a lengthy and expensive process to validate even a Harvard or Cambridge degree (unless maybe it’s in IT or medical, where there’s a fast track process for skilled people). You might consider here, **Dubai**. It is probably one of the only places in the world where the media is actively growing, at quite an amazing rate. It is full of westerners, quite a lot of americans, don’t let prejudice or fear about the Middle East put you off. There are even jewish people here. [Http://www.dubaimediacity.com](Http://www.dubaimediacity.com) for more info, [http://www.clarendonparker.com/](http://www.clarendonparker.com/) is a good media recruiter here. The other thing I would recommend is going a TEFAL/TEFL/TESL/CELTA course to teach English as a foreign language. MASSES of jobs for that all over the world: [http://www.eslcafe.com/joblist](http://www.eslcafe.com/joblist) - just take a look at that list. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2003, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-could-a-dissatisfied-american-emmigrate/164165/22 "2003-03-26T10:21:54Z")
**Seven** , if you’re thinking of moving here, you might want to do some research and reading first… only 6 counties of Ireland are part of the UK, known as Northern Ireland. The other 26 counties are the Irish Republic and are an independent country, and most assuredly NOT part of the UK (little matter of a War of Independence…). **toaad** - if you’re leaving the US because of corrupt and specious politics, Ireland might not be the right place to come: there’s plenty of that here, too. ---
**Author:** ![quarrossimo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@quarrossimo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/quarrossimo)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2003, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-could-a-dissatisfied-american-emmigrate/164165/23 "2003-03-26T10:35:33Z")
If you are interested in Singapore, [http://www.contactsingapore.org.sg](http://www.contactsingapore.org.sg) is worth checking out. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2003, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-could-a-dissatisfied-american-emmigrate/164165/24 "2003-03-26T13:28:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Johnny L.A. \* > **On a related note, does the U.S. require a citizen to renounce his citizenship in order for that person to become a citizen of another country?** Not precisely. Actually, it’s not the USA’s call. The US does not RECOGNIZE dual citizenship, e.g. if you become a citizen of Canada, they don’t cut you a break on anything on account of that. But you don’t renounce your U.S. citizenship unless the country you’re becoming a citizen of requires you do so. My best friend was a born American who later became a Canadian citizen; he wrote the State Department and has a letter, carefully filed away, containing the U.S. State Department response stating, in essence, “You’re still an American, don’t sweat it, but this doesn’t release you from any obligations to us.” ---
**Author:** ![Dreaming\_of\_Maria\_Callas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@Dreaming\_of\_Maria\_Callas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dreaming_of_Maria_Callas)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2003, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-could-a-dissatisfied-american-emmigrate/164165/25 "2003-03-26T13:44:11Z")
After I left the Navy, I wanted to get out of the US quickly. Being relatively young, I was able to find a lot of volunteering opportunities, which enabled me to travel around in Europe for a year before I entered a European university and was able to cement my residence. If you’re over 30, it gets harder to be so mobile, but plenty of NGOs are looking for volunteers - and sometimes board is paid and you get pocket money for food - and that’s a great way to starting living abroad. UnuMondo ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2003, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-could-a-dissatisfied-american-emmigrate/164165/26 "2003-03-26T14:50:50Z")
It’s not that ahrd to get a green card in Canada is you are a a relatively young educated english speaker, under their “Skilled Worker” program. they have a “points system” – you need 75 out of a 100 points to qualify for a green card (you can apply for citizenship after a certain amount of time with a green card.) You get points for your level of education, your spouse’s level of education, age (IIRC19-49 gives you the max number of points in the age category), language ability in English and French (even if you just took some French in high school you will earn a few points for it), your employment history (consistenly holding down a job), whether you have a job lined up in Canada, whether you have any relations in Canada, and a couple other things I don’t recall right now. If you search “canada green card” you should find the guidelines. Aw, heck, here ya go: [http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/index.html](http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/index.html) I applied for a job at a Canadian company recently so I looked all this stuff up. ---
**Author:** ![WillSantini](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ed8c4c/32.png) [@WillSantini](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillSantini)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2003, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-could-a-dissatisfied-american-emmigrate/164165/27 "2003-03-26T16:11:11Z")
How about Texas? ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2003, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-could-a-dissatisfied-american-emmigrate/164165/28 "2003-03-26T16:47:20Z")
There’s someone on the boards who went through a rough divorce. He packed up his stuff and moved to an Island in the South Pacific. He had photos and a journal of sorts on line. It sure looked inviting! I wish I could remember his name. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2003, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-could-a-dissatisfied-american-emmigrate/164165/29 "2003-03-26T17:01:21Z")
Moving to another country with the express intention of renouncing US citizenship is foolish. Move there and get a job and live there for a few years before you make the step of applying for citizenship. If you think you can run away from politics and bigotry and ignorance by leaving the US you are sadly sadly mistaken. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2003, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-could-a-dissatisfied-american-emmigrate/164165/30 "2003-03-26T20:02:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hello Again \* > \*\*It’s not that ahrd to get a green card in Canada is you are a a relatively young educated english speaker, under their “Skilled Worker” program. they have a “points system” – you need 75 out of a 100 points to qualify for a green card (you can apply for citizenship after a certain amount of time with a green card.) > \ > If you search “canada green card” you should find the guidelines. Aw, heck, here ya go: > [http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/index.html](http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/index.html) > \*\* Am I misinterpreting the language requirements, or does not being able to speak French cost one some of those 100 points? If so, that might be something for **Toaad** to think about, since he seems to be a Spanish speaker, not a French one. ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2003, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-could-a-dissatisfied-american-emmigrate/164165/31 "2003-03-26T20:03:34Z")
"America has been good to me I am just sick of the mean america the place is becoming. " Toaad, that statement would make a great thread in Great Debates. Here, I will offer only one simple reaction: Be Careful ! America aint no paradise, but most other Western countries are no better. If you are afraid of crime, move to any smallish town in America, and you’ll live better than in London or Sydney. If you are afraid of losing your rights to a war-mongering Big Brother–remember that almost NO other country anywhere has a formal,written Bill of Rights or First Ammendment like the US. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2003, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-could-a-dissatisfied-american-emmigrate/164165/32 "2003-03-26T21:05:31Z")
Yes, not speaking French will cost you 12 of the 100 points, but you don’t need 100 points to qualify. College educated, consistently employed persons with English as their first language and with a job lined up in Canada should qualify with no French skills. An educated spouse adds bonus points. 22 points for a 4-year college degree (more points for Ph.D and multiple Bachelor’s) 16 points for fluent speaking, reading, writing & listening of English 21 points for 4 years employment in a professional field 10 points for being in his mid-30s 10 points for arranged employment in Canada =79 points… Welcome to Canada! ---
**Author:** ![RobbieFal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c5a1d2/32.png) [@RobbieFal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RobbieFal)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2003, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-could-a-dissatisfied-american-emmigrate/164165/33 "2003-03-26T21:18:34Z")
Why not Andorra, Liechtenstein or Monaco?? ---
**Author:** ![mozart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@mozart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mozart)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2003, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-could-a-dissatisfied-american-emmigrate/164165/34 "2003-03-26T22:16:56Z")
It’s possible to become a Canadian citizen and remain an American citizen as well. I have several relatives who have both Canadian and American Passports. ---
**Author:** ![Motog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85e7bf/32.png) [@Motog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Motog)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2003, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-could-a-dissatisfied-american-emmigrate/164165/35 "2003-03-26T22:54:54Z")
**Hello Again** I was interested in your post. On that basis I’d almost qualify (except that I don’t have a job arranged in Canada). I would be grateful if you would point me to the source of that information ---
**Author:** ![Antonius\_Block](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/51bf81/32.png) [@Antonius\_Block](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antonius_Block)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2003, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-could-a-dissatisfied-american-emmigrate/164165/36 "2003-03-27T01:17:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Motog \* > \*\ ***Hello Again** > > I was interested in your post. On that basis I’d almost qualify (except that I don’t have a job arranged in Canada). I would be grateful if you would point me to the source of that information \*\* **Hello Again** probably got those numbers from the [Skilled Worker Self-Assessment](http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/skilled/assess/index.html) page (click on the button at the bottom marked “ **Take the Test** ”). ---
**Author:** ![mancunian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mancunian/32/12244_2.png) [@mancunian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mancunian)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2003, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-could-a-dissatisfied-american-emmigrate/164165/37 "2003-03-27T01:23:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Seven \* > \*\*… > If you can get a sponsor, Ireland might be a good choice. (been thinking of that one myself) but you’d still be in the UK -the USA version of Mini-me… > \*\* Ireland is not in the UK for fucks sake. The UK is the United Kingdom of Great Britain (England, Scotland and Wales) and Northern Ireland. If you are gonna slag of England, at least make sure it is actually England you are slagging off. And if you think us folks in England wanna be Americas little ass fuck off a buddy country, you are sadly mistaken. ---
**Author:** ![Rusalka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecd19e/32.png) [@Rusalka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rusalka)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2003, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-could-a-dissatisfied-american-emmigrate/164165/38 "2003-03-27T01:49:40Z")
From [http://travel.state.gov/ocs\_faq.html#ca4](http://travel.state.gov/ocs_faq.html#ca4) The definitive answer. Wow, how things have changed! Under this policy there’s any number of citizenships you can collect! Why stop at two? Q: If I become a dual citizen will it affect my U.S.citizenship? A: The automatic acquisition or retention of a foreign nationality does not affect U.S. citizenship; however, under limited circumstances, the acquisition of a foreign nationality by application and certain other acts may cause loss of U.S. citizenship under Section 349 of the Immigration and Nationality Act. In order for loss of nationality to occur under Section 349(a)(1), for example, it must be established that the naturalization was obtained voluntarily by a person eighteen years of age or older with the intention of relinquishing U.S. citizenship. Such an intention may be shown by the person’s statements or conduct but in most cases it is assumed that Americans who are naturalized in other countries intend to keep their U.S. citizenship. As a result, they have both nationalities. While recognizing the existence of dual nationality and the fact that some Americans to have other nationalities, the U.S. Government does not endorse dual nationality. Claims of other countries upon dual-national U.S. citizens can place them in situations where their obligations to one country are in conflict with the laws of the other. In addition, their dual nationality may hamper U.S. efforts to provide diplomatic and consular protection to its citizens when they are abroad, especially in the country of their other nationality. For further advice, call the Office of Overseas Citizens Services at 202-647-5226. ---
**Author:** ![Lorenzo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4da419/32.png) [@Lorenzo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lorenzo)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2003, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-could-a-dissatisfied-american-emmigrate/164165/39 "2003-03-27T03:28:44Z")
Many of the places listed are great places to retire as long as one has a steady stream of dollars coming. The dollar goes a long way in many countries and having dollars can netralise some inflation problems because oftentimes the dollar is stronger as inflation increases in the foreign country. However, many of these seemingly low local prices are also offset by lower local wages. Just something to consider. ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2003, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-could-a-dissatisfied-american-emmigrate/164165/40 "2003-03-27T05:38:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Zukhoi \* > \*\*Ireland is not in the UK for fucks sake. The UK is the United Kingdom of Great Britain (England, Scotland and Wales) and Northern Ireland. > > If you are gonna slag of England, at least make sure it is actually England you are slagging off. > > And if you think us folks in England wanna be Americas little ass fuck off a buddy country, you are sadly mistaken. \*\* Your incoherent diatribe is not appropriate for this forum. If you mean to insult another poster (and I suppose you do, though it’s hard to tell), you will do so in the BBQ Pit. bibliophage moderator GQ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-could-a-dissatisfied-american-emmigrate/164165.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-could-a-dissatisfied-american-emmigrate/164165.md?page=3)