# Where did all the bizarre names for a groups of animals come from? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 2, 2008, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-all-the-bizarre-names-for-a-groups-of-animals-come-from/447799 "2008-05-02T19:36:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Absolute](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b2d939/32.png) [@Absolute](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Absolute)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2008, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-all-the-bizarre-names-for-a-groups-of-animals-come-from/447799/1 "2008-05-02T19:36:58Z")
A “murder” of crows. A “romp” of otters. A “sleuth” of bears. A “shrewdness” of apes. A “siege” of cranes. Full list [here](http://www.rinkworks.com/words/collective.shtml). Where did all these names come from? ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2008, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-all-the-bizarre-names-for-a-groups-of-animals-come-from/447799/2 "2008-05-02T19:47:56Z")
A lot of them were made up in England for use in witisms and fanciful writing. Scholars have tried to reproduce their lists and have since published them. Those lists have become very popular and lots of people either use them as the proper term or enjoy hearing that the collective noun for crows is a murder. In short, many of them were made up centuries ago in England for no scientific purpose. [http://home.vicnet.net.au/~rasigsau/collective\_nouns\_animal.htm](http://home.vicnet.net.au/~rasigsau/collective_nouns_animal.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2008, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-all-the-bizarre-names-for-a-groups-of-animals-come-from/447799/3 "2008-05-02T19:51:01Z")
A lot of them come from the _Book of St Albans_, attributed to Dame Julia Barnes (1486). See: [Appendix:English collective nouns - Wiktionary, the free dictionary](http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Collective_nouns) And see also: [Collective noun - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_noun#Terms_of_venery_.28words_for_groups_of_animals.29) ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2008, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-all-the-bizarre-names-for-a-groups-of-animals-come-from/447799/4 "2008-05-02T19:51:37Z")
I never heard of most of the ones in that list. 🙂 As **Shagnasty** mentioned, apparently many of them started as jokes. After reading Cecil’s explanation of where ‘OK’ came from (basically mid-nineteenth century leetspeak), it’s clear that one generation’s play, if it survives, can be another generation’s seriousness. (I suspect that this applies to a lot of literature, actually.) ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2008, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-all-the-bizarre-names-for-a-groups-of-animals-come-from/447799/5 "2008-05-02T19:58:30Z")
A _singular_ of boar? ---
**Author:** ![essell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/34f0e0/32.png) [@essell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/essell)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2008, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-all-the-bizarre-names-for-a-groups-of-animals-come-from/447799/6 "2008-05-02T19:59:10Z")
Like Shakespeare turning from light entertainment into torture for school children. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2008, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-all-the-bizarre-names-for-a-groups-of-animals-come-from/447799/7 "2008-05-02T20:19:01Z")
I do think “a skulk of foxes” is appropriate. If foxes ran in groups. Which they don’t. Oh, well… ---
**Author:** ![Flander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8c91f0/32.png) [@Flander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flander)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2008, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-all-the-bizarre-names-for-a-groups-of-animals-come-from/447799/8 "2008-05-02T20:31:51Z")
I wanted to add something the list omits: Flock of Seagulls 🙂 Ostentation of peacocks has been my favorite for years. ---
**Author:** ![ess\_tee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f475e1/32.png) [@ess\_tee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ess_tee)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2008, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-all-the-bizarre-names-for-a-groups-of-animals-come-from/447799/9 "2008-05-02T20:34:31Z")
[QUOTE=Joey P] A _singular_ of boar? [/QUOTE] 2+ moose = meese? ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2008, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-all-the-bizarre-names-for-a-groups-of-animals-come-from/447799/10 "2008-05-02T20:41:51Z")
[QUOTE=Flander] I wanted to add something the list omits: Flock of Seagulls 🙂 [/QUOTE] Commonly found in that country east of Iraq. ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2008, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-all-the-bizarre-names-for-a-groups-of-animals-come-from/447799/11 "2008-05-02T21:02:30Z")
The authoritative work on the subject is [_An Exaltation of Larks_](http://www.amazon.com/Exaltation-Larks-Ultimate-James-Lipton/dp/0140170960/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1209758558&sr=8-1) by James Lipton (yes, the Actors’ Studio guy, although the first edition was published in 1968, long before the show began). It’s a very interesting, engaging, and amusing book. Contrary to what has been stated upthread, these “terms of venery” did not _start_ as jokes. The Book of St. Albans, and many other similar works, were text books for young noblemen. The editor of a 19th century edition claimed that “at that period [the late 15th century], every man claiming to be ‘gentle’ was expected to be familiar [with the various terms]; while ignorance of their laws and language was to confess himself a ‘churl.’” So at first, knowledge of the proper terms was taken very seriously as a sign of good breeding. However, by the 19th century it was no longer such a serious a matter, and became a sort of game. But I suspect that the whole subject might have become nothing more than a philological footnote by now, if not for Lipton’s book. Nearly single-handedly, he resurrected the obscure old terms, rediscovered the more recent, invented a bunch of his own, and introduced 20th-century readers to the game. The book has gone through several versions, including a major new “Ultimate” edition in 1990, and has never been out of print since 1968. You know many more of these terms than you realize. For instance, a _school of fish_, a _swarm of bees_, a _bunch of grapes_, a _band of men_, a _bevy of beauties_, a _month of Sundays_, _a mountain of debt_. A _flight of stairs_! And Lipton and his readers have coined hundreds of modern ones: A _brace of orthodontists_ A _set of mathematicians_ A _corps of anatomists_ A _sack of linebackers_ A _pac of video gamesters_ A _glut of commercials_ And it just goes on and on. I think most Dopers would really enjoy _An Exaltation of Larks._ As for a _singular of boar_, this has a rather complex and uncertain history. One possible explanation is that, after they are four years old, male wild boars go off on their own, and are never seen in groups, hence a _singular_. Another is that it is a corruption of the French word for boar, _sanglier_. Finally, Lipton points out that one of the meanings of “singular” is “extraordinary,” which seeing a group of boars certainly would be. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2008, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-all-the-bizarre-names-for-a-groups-of-animals-come-from/447799/12 "2008-05-02T21:11:55Z")
They have a variety of sources. Some are old Anglo-Saxon terms. The majority probably originated around the 1400s as hunting terms. Others have been made up more recently essentially as jokes. [Terms of Venery](http://www.wordinfo.info/words/index/info/view_unit/3675/?letter=G&spage=4) In the 1400s they had the function of something of a social test: a gentleman was expected to learn these erudite terms related to the elite sport of hunting. ---
**Author:** ![BJMoose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5fc32e/32.png) [@BJMoose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BJMoose)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2008, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-all-the-bizarre-names-for-a-groups-of-animals-come-from/447799/13 "2008-05-02T21:31:47Z")
[QUOTE=ess\_tee] 2+ moose = meese? [/QUOTE] Nah. 2+ moose = fun. 😉 I used to date a gal who pondered: “If the plural of mouse is mice, is the plural of spouse, spice?” And let me be the first to suggest: _a teem of Dopers_ ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2008, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-all-the-bizarre-names-for-a-groups-of-animals-come-from/447799/14 "2008-05-02T21:33:38Z")
[QUOTE=BJMoose] And let me be the first to suggest: _a teem of Dopers_ [/QUOTE] A fest of Dopers, sir. A fest. ---
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2008, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-all-the-bizarre-names-for-a-groups-of-animals-come-from/447799/15 "2008-05-02T21:44:07Z")
A friend of mine used to refer to “a giggle of girls”. I rather like the term. And Patrick McManus has referred to “a leap of wife”, although I think that has more to do with bills and chores. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2008, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-all-the-bizarre-names-for-a-groups-of-animals-come-from/447799/16 "2008-05-02T21:54:33Z")
[QUOTE=ess\_tee] 2+ moose = meese? [/QUOTE] Meeses, actually, but only if hate them to pieces. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2008, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-all-the-bizarre-names-for-a-groups-of-animals-come-from/447799/17 "2008-05-03T00:42:18Z")
[QUOTE=Ludovic] Commonly found in that country east of Iraq. [/QUOTE] I got that, you know. ---
**Author:** ![CateAyo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/50afbb/32.png) [@CateAyo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CateAyo)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2008, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-all-the-bizarre-names-for-a-groups-of-animals-come-from/447799/18 "2008-05-03T00:54:18Z")
[QUOTE=Jonathan Chance] I got that, you know. [/QUOTE] But, Iran’s so far away. ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2008, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-all-the-bizarre-names-for-a-groups-of-animals-come-from/447799/19 "2008-05-03T00:56:44Z")
[QUOTE=jayjay] > [@BJMoose](#): > > And let me be the first to suggest: a teem of Dopers A fest of Dopers, sir. A fest. [/QUOTE] Sorry, **jayjay** , but as the self-appointed local expert on terms of venery (I bought my first copy of _An Exaltation of Larks_ back in the 1970s), I’m going to have to rule in favor of **BJMoose**. Very witty term, with a little inside joke for us. Teem of Dopers it is, I hereby proclaim for all time. Amen. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2008, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-all-the-bizarre-names-for-a-groups-of-animals-come-from/447799/20 "2008-05-03T00:58:19Z")
[QUOTE=commasense] Sorry, **jayjay** , but as the self-appointed local expert on terms of venery (I bought my first copy of _An Exaltation of Larks_ back in the 1970s), I’m going to have to rule in favor of **BJMoose**. Very witty term, with a little inside joke for us. Teem of Dopers it is, I hereby proclaim for all time. Amen. [/QUOTE] _pout_ [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-all-the-bizarre-names-for-a-groups-of-animals-come-from/447799.md?page=2)