# Where did Europeans get horses? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 29, 2002, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-europeans-get-horses/130125 "2002-09-29T18:53:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2002, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-europeans-get-horses/130125/1 "2002-09-29T18:53:32Z")
North Africa? Are there still wild horses where they obtained them? ---
**Author:** ![kniz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c37758/32.png) [@kniz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kniz)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2002, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-europeans-get-horses/130125/2 "2002-09-29T19:04:43Z")
The answer is contained somewhere in **Guns, Germs and Steel**. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2002, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-europeans-get-horses/130125/3 "2002-09-29T19:15:24Z")
[It’s not conclusively known.](http://www2.vet.upenn.edu/labs/equinebehavior/hvnwkshp/hv02/levine.htm) However, the first definite evidence is from the Eurasian steppes (South Russia, Ukraine, etc.). I’m not aware that anyone has proposed North Africa. The last populations of wild (non-feral) horses were those of [Przewalsi’s Horse](http://www.imh.org/imh/bw/prz.html) in Mongolia. ---
**Author:** ![vladivostok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/43a26b/32.png) [@vladivostok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vladivostok)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2002, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-europeans-get-horses/130125/4 "2002-09-29T22:41:29Z")
Horses conquered Europe. Wild horses were abundant 8000 years ago in the grass savanna of South Russia, the rest of Europe was wooded. With domesticated horses it was possible to herd cattle around. The hierarchy needed to deal with large numbers of animals led to kingship, gangs robbing each other, male dominance, the invention of a male supreme god, the invasion of first the Balkans (from 6300 years ago) and later the rest of Europe. See ‘the civilization of the goddess’ by Marija Gimbutas, and ‘in search of the indo-europeans’ by James Mallory. Camels were domesticated by Semites, somewhat later. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2002, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-europeans-get-horses/130125/5 "2002-09-29T23:19:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by vladivostok \* > The hierarchy needed to deal with large numbers of animals led to kingship, gangs robbing each other, male dominance, the invention of a male supreme god, the invasion of first the Balkans (from 6300 years ago) and later the rest of Europe. Well, as **Colibri’s** cite shows, evidence for domestication of the horse that early just doesn’t seem to be there. > [@](#): > > Camels were domesticated by Semites, somewhat later. Well, the Bactrian Camel may have been domesticated as early as the third millenium B.C.E. in central Asia ( at least according to the cites mention by Walker’s Mammals of the World ), which might put it in compeitition with the horse. The Dromedary is a little more controversial, but probably was domesticated a little later. Needless to say the Bactrian was not domesticated by Semitic language-speaking peoples and it is only speculation ( though granted a highly likely one ) that the Dromedary was. - Tamerlane ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2002, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-europeans-get-horses/130125/6 "2002-09-29T23:53:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tamerlane \* > \*\* > > Well, as **Colibri’s** cite shows, > > Well, the Bactrian Camel \*\* My posts are being answered by Ronald Regan? 🙂 Thanks, all. ---
**Author:** ![vladivostok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/43a26b/32.png) [@vladivostok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vladivostok)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2002, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-europeans-get-horses/130125/7 "2002-09-30T08:17:15Z")
I read Colibri’s cite, it is not trustworthy in this respect ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2002, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-europeans-get-horses/130125/8 "2002-09-30T14:47:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by vladivostok \* > \*\*I read Colibri’s cite, it is not trustworthy in this respect \*\* Prove it. Your statement is insufficient. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2002, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-europeans-get-horses/130125/9 "2002-09-30T14:57:35Z")
Why is everyone so damn _mean_ on the board lately? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2002, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-europeans-get-horses/130125/10 "2002-09-30T15:01:52Z")
What are you talking about? I don’t think either mine or vladivostok’s statements are mean. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2002, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-europeans-get-horses/130125/11 "2002-09-30T15:41:58Z")
Then remind me never to get in a pit discussion with you guys. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2002, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-europeans-get-horses/130125/12 "2002-09-30T17:02:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by carnivorousplant \* > \*\*Then remind me never to get in a pit discussion with you guys. > 🙂 \*\* I’d suggest that you change your name to **sensitiveplant** , but now I’m afraid of hurting your feelings. 😉 😉 😉 I took **vladivostok’s** comment regarding “untrustworthy” to be directed at my cite, not me. However, statements such as this in GQ require back up. Ok, I didn’t say “please” in my response, but if you think it was deliberately rude, you are reading a lot more into it than is there. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2002, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-europeans-get-horses/130125/13 "2002-09-30T17:29:25Z")
I am glad to be mistaken. 🙂