# Where did L. Ron Hubbard get his ideas? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 29, 2005, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-l-ron-hubbard-get-his-ideas/310330 "2005-06-29T05:00:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Electronic\_Chaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Electronic\_Chaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Electronic_Chaos)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2005, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-l-ron-hubbard-get-his-ideas/310330/1 "2005-06-29T05:00:41Z")
I’ve read alot about the evil Xenu 7 million years ago throwing his frozen enemies into volcanoes, and bombing them with hydrogen bombs. What I never have heard about is how Hubbard is supposed to know about this. Divine inspiration? Angelic message? Did he ever say how he learned this? Or do most people that get to the point of learning this just blindly accept whatever the church tells them? ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2005, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-l-ron-hubbard-get-his-ideas/310330/2 "2005-06-29T05:09:29Z")
> [@Electronic Chaos](#): > > I’ve read alot about the evil Xenu 7 million years ago throwing his frozen enemies into volcanoes, and bombing them with hydrogen bombs. On a related note, why didn’t Rush, or Starcastle, or who_ever_ ever write an 18 minute mini-rock-opera on this theme? ---
**Author:** ![Electronic\_Chaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Electronic\_Chaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Electronic_Chaos)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2005, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-l-ron-hubbard-get-his-ideas/310330/3 "2005-06-29T05:11:35Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > On a related note, why didn’t Rush, or Starcastle, or who_ever_ ever write an 18 minute mini-rock-opera on this theme? Because the church would probably sue the pants off of them. They’re crazy like that. ---
**Author:** ![Queen\_Bruin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e274bd/32.png) [@Queen\_Bruin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Queen_Bruin)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2005, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-l-ron-hubbard-get-his-ideas/310330/4 "2005-06-29T05:17:16Z")
Xenu told him. Sorry. Couldn’t help myself. I’m trying to get to the bottom of an answer though. [Here’s](http://ezlink.com/~perry/Co%24/Christian/) where I’m looking. Scientology-ology is a bit of a pasttime of mine and I’d rather like to know the answer to your question myself. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2005, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-l-ron-hubbard-get-his-ideas/310330/5 "2005-06-29T05:30:05Z")
> [@Electronic Chaos](#): > > I’ve read alot about the evil Xenu 7 million years ago throwing his frozen enemies into volcanoes, and bombing them with hydrogen bombs. What I never have heard about is how Hubbard is supposed to know about this. Divine inspiration? Angelic message? Did he ever say how he learned this? Or do most people that get to the point of learning this just blindly accept whatever the church tells them? Scientologists are willing to answer this, as long as you are willing to give them very large amounts of money. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2005, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-l-ron-hubbard-get-his-ideas/310330/6 "2005-06-29T05:33:19Z")
You have to remember the L. Ron was a hack sci-fi writer, and he and John W. Campbell had hashed over this kind of stuff for years before Ron went off the deep end and started believing the crapola he was spouting. Xenu, et al is just the typical stuff rattling around the head of Golden Age sci-fi writers. ---
**Author:** ![nivlac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/3bc359/32.png) [@nivlac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nivlac)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2005, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-l-ron-hubbard-get-his-ideas/310330/7 "2005-06-29T05:34:58Z")
**Where did L. Ron Hubbard get his ideas?** Where do you think crackpots get their ideas? A bit more seriously, you do realize that Hubbard was a science fiction writer, don’t you? ---
**Author:** ![Queen\_Bruin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e274bd/32.png) [@Queen\_Bruin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Queen_Bruin)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2005, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-l-ron-hubbard-get-his-ideas/310330/8 "2005-06-29T05:43:14Z")
[Here’s](http://www.bonafidescientology.org/chapter/02/page02.htm) as close as I can get to an answer on the source of the dogma. > [@Cited Site](#): > > L. Ron Hubbard’s path to the founding of the Scientology religion began with certain discoveries he made in his research into the nature of man. He announced his findings in 1948 as “Dianetics,” a word which means “through the soul” or what the spirit is doing to the body. **Silenus, nivlac** I think what **Electronic Chaos** (please correct me if I’m wrong) wanted to know was what is the reason given in the dogma of the “church” for Hubbard’s knowledge. Any reasonable person realizes that he pulled it out of his ass; what’s the reason given to followers for his knowledge? ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2005, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-l-ron-hubbard-get-his-ideas/310330/9 "2005-06-29T05:48:27Z")
Wikepedia on [Origins of Xenu](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenu#Origins_of_the_Xenu_story) > [@](#): > > Hubbard wrote OT III in late 1966 and early 1967 in North Africa while on his way to Las Palmas to join the Enchanter, the first vessel of his private Scientology fleet (the “Sea Org”).[10] ([http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenu#endnote\_3](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenu#endnote_3)) (OT III says “In December 1967 I knew someone had to take the plunge”, but the material was publicised well before this.) He would probably have conducted his research by auditing himself to unearth what he believed to be his hidden or suppressed memories, using an E-Meter. He emphasized later that OT III was his own personal discovery and, judging by his statements on the subject, regarded it as one of his life’s greatest achievements. > > Critics of Scientology have suggested that other factors may have been at work. In a letter of the time to his wife Mary Sue[11] ([http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenu#endnote\_4](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenu#endnote_4)), Hubbard said that, in order to assist his research, he was drinking a great deal of rum and taking stimulants and depressants (“I’m drinking lots of rum and popping pinks and greys”). His assistant at the time, Virginia Downsborough, said that he “was existing almost totally on a diet of drugs.”[12] ([http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenu#endnote\_5](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenu#endnote_5)) Miller (p290) hypothesises that it was important for Hubbard to be found in a debilitated condition, so as to present OT III as “a research accomplishment of immense magnitude”. > > Elements of the Xenu story appeared in Scientology before OT III. Hubbard’s descriptions of extraterrestrial conflicts were put forward as early as 1952 and were enthusiastically endorsed by Scientologists… ---
**Author:** ![rfgdxm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c0e974/32.png) [@rfgdxm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rfgdxm)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2005, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-l-ron-hubbard-get-his-ideas/310330/10 "2005-06-29T05:51:31Z")
> [@Electronic Chaos](#): > > I’ve read alot about the evil Xenu 7 million years ago throwing his frozen enemies into volcanoes, and bombing them with hydrogen bombs. What I never have heard about is how Hubbard is supposed to know about this. Divine inspiration? Angelic message? Did he ever say how he learned this? Or do most people that get to the point of learning this just blindly accept whatever the church tells them? Doesn’t this belong in the Great Debates forum? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2005, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-l-ron-hubbard-get-his-ideas/310330/11 "2005-06-29T05:52:25Z")
(“I’m drinking lots of rum and popping pinks and greys”). Pardon me, but I’ll be spending this weekend in “research.” Yeah…research. That’s the ticket. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2005, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-l-ron-hubbard-get-his-ideas/310330/12 "2005-06-29T05:53:37Z")
> [@rfgdxm](#): > > Doesn’t this belong in the Great Debates forum? Nah. MPSIMS, maybe. This is Scientology. There is nothing “Great” about it. Nor is there much to debate. ---
**Author:** ![rfgdxm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c0e974/32.png) [@rfgdxm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rfgdxm)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2005, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-l-ron-hubbard-get-his-ideas/310330/13 "2005-06-29T06:08:41Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Nah. MPSIMS, maybe. This is Scientology. There is nothing “Great” about it. Nor is there much to debate. You have a point. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2005, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-l-ron-hubbard-get-his-ideas/310330/14 "2005-06-29T06:53:18Z")
IIRC, it was a $50 bar bet with Asimov that started Hubbard on his “quest.” ---
**Author:** ![sleeepy2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@sleeepy2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleeepy2)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2005, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-l-ron-hubbard-get-his-ideas/310330/15 "2005-06-29T11:30:01Z")
I think Scientology is as kooky as the next guy, but Battlefield Earth was a pretty decent book. 1950’s pulpy sci-fi, but fun. Hubbard was a legitimate sci-fi writer, IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2005, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-l-ron-hubbard-get-his-ideas/310330/16 "2005-06-29T11:41:22Z")
> [@](#): > > You have to remember the L. Ron was a hack sci-fi writer, and he and John W. Campbell had hashed over this kind of stuff for years before Ron went off the deep end and started believing the crapola he was spouting. Xenu, et al is just the typical stuff rattling around the head of Golden Age sci-fi writers. I’ll bet most people who say this have never struggled through the works of L. Ron, especially his pre-Battlefield Earth _ouevre_. I have, and tried to keep an open mind about it. 1.) I really hate L. Ron’s writing. He seems petty and mean and incredibly ignorant about miost science and technology. A lot of people who have no stake in the scientology game still praise Hubbard for “Fear” or “The Final Blackout”. I found the first unreadable and the actions of the hero in the latter highly questioonable. 2.) Most of L. Ron’s work isn’t science fiction at all, but fantasy, or westerns, or other genre. His stuff that can be classified as science fiction generally isn’t very heavy on the science part. I suspect that a lot of people characterized Hubbard as a “science fiction writer” to stigmatize him. As a science fiction fan, that annoys me. Especially as his output was mostly geared elsewhere, and his science fiction wasn’t so hot. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2005, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-l-ron-hubbard-get-his-ideas/310330/17 "2005-06-29T13:16:45Z")
> [@Tuckerfan](#): > > IIRC, it was a $50 bar bet with Asimov that started Hubbard on his “quest.” There are any number of stories about how Hubbard got started, and as far as I can determine none of them are reliable. Or at least there is no way to determine at this date whether to give any one credence over the others. The truth appears to be that Hubbard talked about this for a long time with just about everybody in the world of New York City writer/fans. I’ve met some myself who claim to be _the_ one who gave him the inspiration. Eventually he went off and started writing, with the encouragement of John W. Campbell. Campbell was in the beginning of his loony phase and this assured Hubbard a market. He was too canny an old pulpster to churn this stuff out totally on spec. The attack book, [Bare-Faced Messiah](http://www.clambake.org/archive/books/bfm/bfm09.htm) by Russell Miller, has a section detailing how Campbell worked with Hubbard ahead of the publication of the book version of Dianetics and found the doctor who wrote the introduction that gave the book some credibility. Campbell published the Dianetics article in the May 1950 Astounding as a lead-in to the debut of the book. ---
**Author:** ![KidCharlemagne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed8c4c/32.png) [@KidCharlemagne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KidCharlemagne)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2005, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-l-ron-hubbard-get-his-ideas/310330/18 "2005-06-29T13:33:19Z")
When I read some of the processes involved in Scientology I couldn’t help but think that L. Ron was playing a huge joke, seeing just how ridiculous he could make things and still have people willing to believe them. ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2005, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-l-ron-hubbard-get-his-ideas/310330/19 "2005-06-29T13:35:36Z")
**KidCharlemagne** : Really!? Naw, couldn’t be. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2005, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-l-ron-hubbard-get-his-ideas/310330/20 "2005-06-29T13:50:53Z")
> [@KidCharlemagne](#): > > When I read some of the processes involved in Scientology I couldn’t help but think that L. Ron was playing a huge joke, seeing just how ridiculous he could make things and still have people willing to believe them. Mindful of the Old Testament, no? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-l-ron-hubbard-get-his-ideas/310330.md?page=2)