# Where did "quarterback" come from? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 12, 2007, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-quarterback-come-from/426179 "2007-11-12T21:10:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![xanthous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/53a042/32.png) [@xanthous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xanthous)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2007, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-quarterback-come-from/426179/1 "2007-11-12T21:10:47Z")
Wikipedia says > [@](#): > > The term quarterback has its origin in Scottish Rugby, wherein backfield players, according to their customary distance behind the forwards, were designated “quarter back” (i.e. ¼ of the way back), “halfback”, and “fullback”. [cite needed] Can anybody back this up, cite-wise? Mostly I want to look cool to my boyfriend who doesn’t know the origin of these words. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2007, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-quarterback-come-from/426179/2 "2007-11-12T21:44:49Z")
Wikipedia is correct - the terms come from Rugby (no idea why Scottish rugby was specifically highlighted, perhaps they held on to the older names for longer - you used to have players like five eighths etc.). See here: [Rugby Football History](http://www.rugbyfootballhistory.com/positions.html) ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2007, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-quarterback-come-from/426179/3 "2007-11-12T21:50:50Z")
Well, if it helps any, the “backs” on a rugby team are named as follows - scrum half, fly half, inside centre and outside centre, left and right (or blindside and openside) wings, and fullback. The centres are sometimes called three-quarters (really), and the scrum half is called a half-back in some regions. There’s no position called a quarter(-)back, though, at least not in modern parlance… and the fullback doesn’t really correlate very well with an American Football fullback. Also, as far as I know, Scottish rugby uses more or less exactly the same terminology as English rugby. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_stafford_cripps/32/7167_2.png) [@The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Stafford_Cripps)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2007, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-quarterback-come-from/426179/4 "2007-11-12T21:52:45Z")
I’m Scottish and I like rugby but I’ve never heard of “Scottish Rugby” unless they just mean rugby that happens to be played in Scotland. I’ve also never heard of a quarterback in rugby although I don’t know what the names of the positions were in the early days when rugby was 20 a side. It’s puzzling to me because there’s no one between the forwards and the half backs - “quarterback” implies being in front of the half backs, which would be offside nowadays. ---
**Author:** ![xanthous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/53a042/32.png) [@xanthous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xanthous)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2007, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-quarterback-come-from/426179/5 "2007-11-12T22:14:13Z")
I don’t know if it matters, but I was asking about the American football positions. Do those names coincide with the distances from X point (and what is the X point, exactly), or are they just old-fashioned rugby names that have since become moot with regard to being any distance from anything? ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2007, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-quarterback-come-from/426179/6 "2007-11-12T22:35:47Z")
[QUOTE=xanthous] what is the X point, exactly [/QUOTE] The offensive line, i.e., the players who line up parallel with the scrimmage line and directly across from the defensive line. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_stafford_cripps/32/7167_2.png) [@The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Stafford_Cripps)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2007, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-quarterback-come-from/426179/7 "2007-11-12T22:35:50Z")
I’m sure the term quarterback will have originated in some form of rugby type game at some point in Britain in the 19th century (you also get half backs and full backs in soccer), but I was just getting geeky about how it relates to modern rugby. There is a logic to the naming; in rugby the higher the fraction (half, five-eighth, three-quarter, full), the further back the player stands on the pitch. My puzzlement is that in rugby, backs aren’t allowed to stand in front of the half back, so there’s no place for a quarterback, unless the quarterbacks were actually forwards. Sorry, I’m boring myself now, never mind everyone else. ---
**Author:** ![WoodenTaco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/45deac/32.png) [@WoodenTaco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WoodenTaco)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2007, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-quarterback-come-from/426179/8 "2007-11-12T22:42:12Z")
[QUOTE=xanthous] I don’t know if it matters, but I was asking about the American football positions. Do those names coincide with the distances from X point (and what is the X point, exactly), or are they just old-fashioned rugby names that have since become moot with regard to being any distance from anything? [/QUOTE] The X point would likely be the center who snaps the ball. In really really old American football, like 19th century, the T formation was the most common since the game was almost entirely about running, not passing. The T formation has the QB line up under center, with the FB behind him and two HBs, one to the left of the FB and one to his right. Often, the FB would be a step back from the two HBs, as well. These days you see this formation deployed very rarely as a “full house” set - I think I’ve seen the Eagles do it a few times in the past couple of seasons. So, just to be clear, this old-school formation looks like this: ```auto XX XX C XX XX QB HB FB HB ``` Or, sometimes like this: ```auto XX XX C XX XX QB HB HB FB ``` The second one makes it kind of clear how the QB is a quarter-back from the center, the HB is halfway back, and the FB is the deepest back. Incidentally, this is the origin of a couple of other terms you see thrown around. The right halfback was usually responsible for blocking, and was called the “wingback.” Eventually, this position moved up to the right end of the line, becoming the tight end. The left halfback was the main runner, called the “tailback.” The fullback was responsible for power-running and blocking, a tradition that has lasted until today (although some would argue that the FB is going out of style). ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2007, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-quarterback-come-from/426179/9 "2007-11-12T22:43:47Z")
How Chad Kroeger fits into this is anybody’s guess. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2007, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-quarterback-come-from/426179/10 "2007-11-12T22:44:10Z")
In America, the term apparently goes all the way back to 1879. See [Online Etymology Dictionary](http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=lammas&searchmode=none). [Try this link if the other isn’t working](http://66.218.69.11/search/cache?ei=UTF-8&p=quarterback+etymology&fr=b2ie7&u=www.etymonline.com/index.php%3Fsearch%3Dlammas&w=quarterback+etymology&d=HrkAKfL9PmwB&icp=1&.intl=us) ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2007, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-quarterback-come-from/426179/11 "2007-11-12T22:47:20Z")
[QUOTE=xanthous] Mostly I want to look cool to my boyfriend who doesn’t know the origin of these words. [/QUOTE] If you want to look smarter than your boyfriend when it comes to football ask him what state the follwing teams play their home games in: Kansas City Chiefs: Missouri (a lot of people say Kansas) Carolina Panthers: North Carolina (this is a 50/50 and some people say South Carolina) New York Jets: New Jersey New York Giants: New Jersey New England Patriots: Massachusetts (unless your from the northeast a lot of people don’t know what state it’s in) Washington Redskins: Virginia (a lot of people say Washington) ---
**Author:** ![WoodenTaco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/45deac/32.png) [@WoodenTaco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WoodenTaco)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2007, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-quarterback-come-from/426179/12 "2007-11-12T22:53:35Z")
[QUOTE=DSYoungEsq] In America, the term apparently goes all the way back to 1879. See [Online Etymology Dictionary](http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=lammas&searchmode=none). [Try this link if the other isn’t working](http://66.218.69.11/search/cache?ei=UTF-8&p=quarterback+etymology&fr=b2ie7&u=www.etymonline.com/index.php%3Fsearch%3Dlammas&w=quarterback+etymology&d=HrkAKfL9PmwB&icp=1&.intl=us) [/QUOTE] That’s no coincidence. The rules of American football were set down between 1876-1880, so the standardization of position names dates from the same period. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2007, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-quarterback-come-from/426179/13 "2007-11-12T22:53:42Z")
It appears that there is some support for the idea that the term “quarterback” was used in Scotland to describe a Rugby football position. See, for example, [About Sevens Rugby…](http://www.sevensrugby.co.za/), which uses some prose explanation that is found parroted at numerous sites, the origin of which I cannot yet track down. ---
**Author:** ![PoorYorick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecccb3/32.png) [@PoorYorick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PoorYorick)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2007, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-quarterback-come-from/426179/14 "2007-11-12T22:59:39Z")
[QUOTE=WoodenTaco] The second one makes it kind of clear how the QB is a quarter-back from the center, the HB is halfway back, and the FB is the deepest back. [/QUOTE] Actually, doesn’t the term “quarterback” predate the straight T formation? Earlier formations (or at least more popular) were the [Single Wing](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-wing) formation and its variants. In the Single Wing, the quarterback is the farthest back. ---
**Author:** ![adirondack\_mike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b5a626/32.png) [@adirondack\_mike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adirondack_mike)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2007, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-quarterback-come-from/426179/15 "2007-11-12T23:07:38Z")
[QUOTE=Hampshire] Washington Redskins: Virginia (a lot of people say Washington) [/QUOTE] As much as it greaves me to say so, the Redskins play in Maryland. They used to play in Washington, D.C. when they didn’t suck so much. ---
**Author:** ![WoodenTaco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/45deac/32.png) [@WoodenTaco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WoodenTaco)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2007, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-quarterback-come-from/426179/16 "2007-11-12T23:08:31Z")
[QUOTE=PoorYorick] Actually, doesn’t the term “quarterback” predate the straight T formation? Earlier formations (or at least more popular) were the [Single Wing](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-wing) formation and its variants. In the Single Wing, the quarterback is the farthest back. [/QUOTE] I don’t think Single-wing formations predated T-formations. Single-wing became popular in the early 20th century, up into the 40s, if I’m not mistaken. A bit of googling confirms it. Cite (emphasis mine): > [@http://www.footballresearch.com/articles/frpage.cfm?topic=4-stratgy](#): > > Lets’s start with what was in vogue **at the time the NFL was formed. Nearly every team of the day – college and pro – lined up in the T-formation.** It is a formation that was the first recognized in football. The early “Treatise on American Football,” published in 1893 by Amos Alonzo Stagg and Henry L. Williams included play diagrams that resembled what is today called a “full-house T.” That is, a seven-man line, a QB right behind the center and a left halfback, fullback, and right halfback in a straight line. The QB was not up under center as is the case today and the ball wasn’t delivered by a direct snap, rather it was rolled back – but the basic formation was the one that wouldn’t change for many years. > > **Many early NFL teams had as their normal attack formations the Single Wing and Double Wing, but even they came out over the ball in a T and shifted to those various formations.** ---
**Author:** ![PoorYorick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecccb3/32.png) [@PoorYorick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PoorYorick)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2007, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-quarterback-come-from/426179/17 "2007-11-12T23:11:50Z")
On the other hand, this might be more complicated than I thought. I see a [link](http://www.noconacn.net/crain/playbook.htm) from my earlier cite that contradicts the cite (see bottom of page). It shows the tail back as the farthest back, with the quarterback just behind the line. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2007, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-quarterback-come-from/426179/18 "2007-11-12T23:18:21Z")
[QUOTE=Really Not All That Bright] Well, if it helps any, the “backs” on a rugby team are named as follows - scrum half, fly half, inside centre and outside centre, left and right (or blindside and openside) wings, and fullback. [/QUOTE] On my team it was strong side and weak side wings. ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2007, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-quarterback-come-from/426179/19 "2007-11-12T23:47:40Z")
In present day American football, “halfback” is outdated, and “fullback” is rare. At Purdue University, “fullback” was dusted off for Mike Alstott. Every morning, he pushed his Jeep up a hill, and he was nearly unstoppable on short runs. Now, you’ll see “running back” and “wide receiver.” ---
**Author:** ![PoorYorick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecccb3/32.png) [@PoorYorick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PoorYorick)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2007, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-quarterback-come-from/426179/20 "2007-11-13T00:12:37Z")
[QUOTE=WoodenTaco] I don’t think Single-wing formations predated T-formations. Single-wing became popular in the early 20th century, up into the 40s, if I’m not mistaken. A bit of googling confirms it. [/QUOTE] Ah, many thanks. I guess I had always associated “T-formation” with “modern,” and “Single wing” with “old fashioned.” (Although I do thoroughly enjoy watching the rare single wing team). [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-quarterback-come-from/426179.md?page=2)