# Where did "That's Mighty White of You" come from, and what does it mean? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 31, 2002, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-thats-mighty-white-of-you-come-from-and-what-does-it-mean/145841 "2002-12-31T07:15:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 5\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Mr.Bill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Mr.Bill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Bill)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2016, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-thats-mighty-white-of-you-come-from-and-what-does-it-mean/145841/41 "2016-07-07T23:01:45Z")
> [@Backwater\_Under\_Duck](#): > > I have to believe that it would be found in Kipling somewhere. It’s that era of British colonialism that I have always associated with, possibly through 19th century theatre. Used to do a bunch of that. There’s a very close analog in Gunga Din, when the narrator says of the native bhisti or auxiliary “…for all his dirty hide, he was white, clear white inside when he went to tend the wounded under fire.” The saying definitely seems to be rooted in an unspoken assumption that white folks are better than those of color, just because. Kipling, however ends the tale with “… by the living god that made you, you’re a better man than I am, Gunga Din.” A clear recognition by the narrator that his racist attitudes were unwarranted. Interesting bloke, that Kipling. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2016, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-thats-mighty-white-of-you-come-from-and-what-does-it-mean/145841/42 "2016-07-08T00:53:00Z")
I heard it all the time growing up in West Texas in the 1960s. But for there, I would say it was “semi-sarcastic” rather than wholly sarcastic. ---
**Author:** ![Lasciel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e79b87/32.png) [@Lasciel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lasciel)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2016, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-thats-mighty-white-of-you-come-from-and-what-does-it-mean/145841/43 "2016-07-08T05:01:00Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > Actually, I’m a little surprised to learn that it’s racist. I’ve only ever run into it in books, and actually I figured it was going to the idea of it meant you were doing a good thing. You know, white=good, black=evil, light=good, dark=evil, and so on. Obviously, I was wrong. Yes I know this is an old-ass zombie but I want to explicitly challenge the idea that the classical fantasy trope of white=good and dark=evil is not racist. Cause it probably was, and it’s good to actually think about the messages that sort of thing sends when the evil orcs are always dark or swarthy or the evil elves are the black ones, while the good peoples are invariably Northern European looking. There. I’ve hijacked a zombie. I feel like I need a particularly gruesome trophy or something. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2016, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-thats-mighty-white-of-you-come-from-and-what-does-it-mean/145841/44 "2016-07-08T10:21:30Z")
For what it’s worth, in Tolkien, most elves were darker-hued, at least in hair color: Galadriel was considered remarkable for being blond. The Rohirrim were pale and fair-haired, but they were just one of many “good” nations of humans, and the southerners were “swarthy”, but it’s made clear that they were fighting on Sauron’s side only because they were misled and/or bullied into it. Nobody else’s pigmentation is ever specified, including hobbits, dwarves, Numenoreans, or orcs, and there’s a scene where the wiser characters chide the hobbits for their prejudice against the Druedain based on their appearance (which differs from “civilized” men in ways unrelated to color). ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2016, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-thats-mighty-white-of-you-come-from-and-what-does-it-mean/145841/45 "2016-07-08T15:59:10Z")
> [@Lasciel](#): > > Yes I know this is an old-ass zombie but I want to explicitly challenge the idea that the classical fantasy trope of white=good and dark=evil is not racist. Cause it probably was, and it’s good to actually think about the messages that sort of thing sends when the evil orcs are always dark or swarthy or the evil elves are the black ones, while the good peoples are invariably Northern European looking. Well, yes and no. Going back into ancient mythology, the association with light being good and darkness being evil is widespread. Both Hades and Hell were places of darkness, away from the lifegiving sun/presence of God. Look at the legend of [Persephone](http://www.greekmythology.com/Other_Gods/Persephone/persephone.html)as an example of the recognition that life always had elements of good and bad. I’m not an expert on world mythologies but from what I’ve read the obvious dichotomies of sun/dark, heat/cold, fertile/infertile are basic to most, if not all. This would precede all the modern notions of racism and so would be the roots for classic fantasy. Unless you’re calling Tolkien classic fantasy rather than modern fantasy, which is wrong and wildly unhistoric. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-thats-mighty-white-of-you-come-from-and-what-does-it-mean/145841.md?page=2)