# Where did the 16 million Democratic votes go? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 6, 2024, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-16-million-democratic-votes-go/1009786 "2024-11-06T14:01:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2024, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-16-million-democratic-votes-go/1009786/41 "2024-11-06T20:06:39Z")
What she says carries little weight when she is associated with [the administration providing record amounts of military aid to Israel](https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-us-military-spending-8e6e5033f7a1334bf6e35f86e7040e14) which is busy turning the entire Gaza Strip into rubble, kettleing people back and forth and [using them as human shields](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/11/03/israel-gaza-human-shields-palestinians-idf/), and also [affirming the right of ‘settlers’ in the West Bank to terrorize schoolchildren and attack Palestinian ‘squatters’ who have lived there for decades](https://www.npr.org/2024/10/12/g-s1-27704/west-bank-palestinians-violence-israel-settlers). Even though Harris isn’t making those decisions and may not even have a real voice in American-Israel policy, she’s tainted by association with those voters. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2024, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-16-million-democratic-votes-go/1009786/42 "2024-11-06T20:11:04Z")
Then there was nothing she could do to not lose votes on this particular issue. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2024, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-16-million-democratic-votes-go/1009786/43 "2024-11-06T20:12:23Z")
I think you’re spot on here. Everyone in the news straw polls around here who said they had voted for Trump was concerned first about “the economy” and second about the border, which is exactly what he and the rest of the Republicans beat the drum about. The wild inflation of a few years ago and the fact that prices have stayed high without corresponding wage increases for most people is something that I feel may have been insurmountable for the Democrats. When people are paying 25% more for just about everything without a corresponding 25% increase in pay, they’re not going to be happy about that, and they’re very likely to blame the party in power. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2024, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-16-million-democratic-votes-go/1009786/44 "2024-11-06T20:27:08Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > Then there was nothing she could do to not lose votes on this particular issue. Agreed but nonetheless it explains in part the difference between turnout in 2020 versus this election. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2024, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-16-million-democratic-votes-go/1009786/45 "2024-11-06T20:37:51Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > They’re not finished counting yet. Harris and Trump will both have several million more votes than they have right now. Yep. This idea that there were only 65 million Dem votes in wrong, already the totals show 67 million. > [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > - The men of this country simply aren’t inclined to turn out for a woman candidate. > - White people are likewise disinclined to turn out for a Black candidate For all the good it did, we should have kept Biden. > [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > The cost of housing, food, energy, etc. has skyrocketed, Hardly. Less than 26% overall for food. Mind you, that isnt a small amount, but its not hyperinflation. > [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > As far as I am aware, Biden wasn’t an option on the ballot. Because people hounded him off after a poor debate. > [@Loach](#): > > You think everyone who votes Democrat is a Democrat? If you only had to rely on those that strongly identify as Democrats then things would be much easier. True. > [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Trump’s massive record of failings were fresh in voters’ minds in November 2020 driving a lot of irregular voters and people disillusioned with their selection in 2016. With four years of distance,… Yes, memories get dim, note all the people reminiscing about the “Good Old days”= they never were. Look at the 1950s when American was at it’s peak- we still had- red scare, nuke scare, massive smoking, pollution, and lead in the gasoline. The old days have never really been “Good”. > [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > The big shift is the successful takeover of the worker protection racket that the Democrats held for 200 years, “Worker protection Racket”??? 🙄 And the Democrats party hasnt been the Modern liberal democrat party for more than 75 years, tops. > [@Jas09](#): > > Democrats stopped believably arguing that they were the party supporting the working man (and yes, I mean to be gender-specific) The GOP is strongly anti workers rights, Unions, and such. > [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > What she says carries little weight when she is associated with [the administration providing record amounts of military aid to Israel… Read the Constitution. The House writes the budget bills, not the president. All he can do is sign or veto, and vetoing and entire budget, after months of debates and compromises due to a single tiny portion of foreign aid would be insane. The GOP House is the blame for the aid going to israel, not the President. > [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Agreed but nonetheless it explains in part the difference between turnout in 2020 versus this election. We dont know what the turnout is yet. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2024, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-16-million-democratic-votes-go/1009786/46 "2024-11-06T20:51:16Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Read the Constitution. The House writes the budget bills, not the president. All he can do is sign or veto, and vetoing and entire budget, after months of debates and compromises due to a single tiny portion of foreign aid would be insane. The GOP House is the blame for the aid going to israel, not the President. _It doesn’t matter._ Biden approved the budget and has spoken regularly in affirmation of Israel’s right of defense with only lightly critical statements about the conduct of the IDF offensive in Gaza, and Harris (fair or not) is associated with that policy. As you can see, Arab-American voters have protested against both candidates which would disproportionately affect the turnout for Harris (in Michigan at least). And this is not accounting for progressives who are upset not only over this issue but the way the DNC selected for her as a candidate without any debate or real alternatives. That this all fundamentally falls at the feet of Biden, both for not recognizing that he should have not run for a second term and instead should have encouraged the DNC to select a strong candidate instead of the default one (although whether that would have mattered is in question), and taken a more critical approach over Gaza instead of shoveling weapons and money at Israel as it committed war crimes (whether you think it justified or not, it has inarguably and repeatedly done so). I frankly don’t know if there was any way to realistically turn out the vote in 2024 the way it was in 2020, because again it is clear that a significant polity were people fed up with Trump whose angst and memories have faded in the last four years, but Harris was carrying this particular stain regardless of what she said or did. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2024, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-16-million-democratic-votes-go/1009786/47 "2024-11-06T20:55:25Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > Out of all the presidents we’ve elected, we’ve had one Black male and ZERO women of any color. Kamala Harris was a double minority candidate, and this effing racist/sexist society just couldn’t handle the idea. This very well could have been a significant factor in Kamala’s loss. But if it was, it was mostly the democrats who didn’t show up to vote for her. ---
**Author:** ![WalterBishop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/aeb1de/32.png) [@WalterBishop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WalterBishop)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2024, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-16-million-democratic-votes-go/1009786/48 "2024-11-06T20:58:36Z")
My hunch is that Biden’s turnout in 2020 was artificially inflated by Covid. People were scared and desperate for change in a way they never had been in any previous election. In my opinion, Biden didn’t beat Trump, Covid did. Biden was a deeply uninspiring politician who just happened to be in the right place at the right time. If Covid hadn’t hit, Trump would’ve crushed him. I don’t think Harris’s race or gender really played into it. I genuinely believe that if Michelle Obama chose to run for President she’d be almost impossible to beat. Michelle Obama has a gift for connecting with people that Kamala Harris just doesn’t have. Trump only has a gift for connecting with idiots and conspiracists. I think Michelle Obama could’ve easily beaten Trump. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2024, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-16-million-democratic-votes-go/1009786/49 "2024-11-06T21:07:52Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > _It doesn’t matter._ Biden approved the budget It doesnt matter to the low Int and low info voters, sure. But it does matter here, when we want the facts. The Biden administration is NOT responsible for _providing record amounts of military aid to Israe_l. That is the GOP Congress. And yes, Biden did sign the Budget bill. He doesnt have line item veto, and ALL Foreign aid is less than 1% of the total budget. Vetoing it for that reason would be ridiculous. Not to mention Biden brokered two peace deals with the UN, which Hamas refused to agree to. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2024, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-16-million-democratic-votes-go/1009786/50 "2024-11-06T21:13:49Z")
I’m not going to engage in another thread that you hijack with constantly shifting goalposts. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2024, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-16-million-democratic-votes-go/1009786/51 "2024-11-06T21:21:03Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > I’m not going to engage in another thread that you hijack with constantly shifting goalposts. Goalposts? Odd, to me it sounded like this- “Bidens administration was responsible for record amounts of military aid to Israel” “No, the GOP Congress was” "Well, Biden signed it. " ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2024, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-16-million-democratic-votes-go/1009786/52 "2024-11-06T21:24:07Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > BANG! Out of all the presidents we’ve elected, we’ve had one Black male and ZERO women of any color. Kamala Harris was a double minority candidate, and this effing racist/sexist society just couldn’t handle the idea. That is what my wife said this morning when we finally go to talk about it. Sad. ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2024, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-16-million-democratic-votes-go/1009786/53 "2024-11-06T21:25:28Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > The Biden administration is NOT responsible for _providing record amounts of military aid to Israe_l. That is the GOP Congress. Biden requested the additional aid for Israel: > **[White House seeks more aid for Israel and Ukraine in $105B funding request](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/white-house-supplemental-aid-israel-ukraine-105b-funding-request-rcna121388)** > > If approved, $61.4 billion in aid would go to Ukraine, and $14.3 billion would go to Israel. The request faces an uphill fight in the House as the chamber is still without a speaker. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2024, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-16-million-democratic-votes-go/1009786/54 "2024-11-06T21:32:11Z")
> [@flurb](#): > > Biden requested the additional aid for Israel: Thats fair but most of that was for Ukraine. And what got approved? ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2024, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-16-million-democratic-votes-go/1009786/55 "2024-11-06T21:45:02Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > What are these people thinking, that the US should launch a war against Israel or what? At the very least they want the US to cut off aid and weapons and quit vetoing anti-Israel proposals in the UN. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2024, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-16-million-democratic-votes-go/1009786/56 "2024-11-06T22:12:40Z")
> [@bump](#): > > The wild inflation of a few years ago and the fact that prices have stayed high without corresponding wage increases for most people is something that I feel may have been insurmountable for the Democrats. When people are paying 25% more for just about everything without a corresponding 25% increase in pay, they’re not going to be happy about that, and they’re very likely to blame the party in power. While I’m sure most who voted for Trump do not regularly read the NYT (frankly, same for most who voted for Harris), that was a continuous running theme in any article or column (especially Krugman) about the economy. Many, many times some comments on the articles would make the point that people don’t get paid by macroeconomic indicators or that average pay increase numbers didn’t mean they got one or that simply everything seemed far more expensive than the cost increase should have reasonably been. Much like comments about “well, the stock markets are up, don’t you have a 401k?” Which, of course, neglects the fact that it doesn’t matter how I’m doing in 2024 with a retirement account when I need to not touch it (and in fact will be penalized heavily if I do) until something like 2060. ---
**Author:** ![Kelby2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ebca7d/32.png) [@Kelby2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kelby2)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2024, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-16-million-democratic-votes-go/1009786/57 "2024-11-06T22:15:55Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > Agree with all of this. > > Tons of people are struggling financially. The cost of housing, food, energy, etc. has skyrocketed, and there is a perception (rightly or wrongly) that a Harris victory would be “more of the same” and a Trump victory would lower the cost of living. This is where I’m at. They’re wrong of course, but the myth of “Great Businessman” Trump abides. ---
**Author:** ![Mdm.President](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@Mdm.President](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mdm.President)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2024, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-16-million-democratic-votes-go/1009786/58 "2024-11-06T22:20:21Z")
Honestly, all he would have had to do is publicly condemn the genocide, instead of at best avoiding and minimizing, and at worse, kissing Israels ass and war mongering. ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2024, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-16-million-democratic-votes-go/1009786/59 "2024-11-06T23:03:31Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Thats fair but most of that was for Ukraine. And what got approved? They settled on $17M for Israel I think? I’m too lazy to look it up, it was included in a supplemental appropriation that included aid for Ukraine and Taiwan. I don’t have a dog in the underlying fight, I just don’t think it’s accurate to portray the President’s role in the budget as signing or vetoing what Congress presents him. He’s required by statute to provide Congress with a budget request at the start of each fiscal cycle, which becomes the foundation for what Congress (eventually) approves. They’ll tinker with the numbers and provisions but 90% of what the President requests will end up in the final appropriations. And the Administration will be lobbying Congress throughout the legislative process to shape the budget to their liking. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2024, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-16-million-democratic-votes-go/1009786/60 "2024-11-06T23:14:31Z")
> [@Mdm.President](#): > > Honestly, all he would have had to do is publicly condemn the genocide, They would have lost _far_ more votes than they gained if they engaged in that nonsense. Give me a break. > [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > > [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > > > What are these people thinking, that the US should launch a war against Israel or what? > > At the very least they want the US to cut off aid and weapons and quit vetoing anti-Israel proposals in the UN. You cannot appease people who think this way, and it is a mistake to try. Whatever level you debase yourself before them, they will tsk tsk and tell you that if only you’d taken one more step to the left, they could join you in stopping fascism; but since you didn’t do that, too bad so sad, you’ll just have to wait for the glorious socialist revolution that follows the fascist dictatorship. And there definitely aren’t 13 million of them in this country, so they don’t explain the lackluster turnout. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-16-million-democratic-votes-go/1009786.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-16-million-democratic-votes-go/1009786.md?page=4)