# Where did the 16 million Democratic votes go? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 6, 2024, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-16-million-democratic-votes-go/1009786 "2024-11-06T14:01:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2024, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-16-million-democratic-votes-go/1009786/61 "2024-11-06T23:27:54Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > […] but my big question is this: > > “Other than not being Donald Trump, what did Kamala Harris offer the average voter?” [Jonathan Pie](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0eq7VNCcYY) agrees with you. And he does not mention Gaza and Israel at all. That is his shtick: being exasperated. Which is funnier than moaning and patronizing. Ah, damn! ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2024, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-16-million-democratic-votes-go/1009786/62 "2024-11-06T23:35:18Z")
> [@Pardel-Lux](#): > > [Jonathan Pie](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0eq7VNCcYY) agrees with you. God damn, he makes some great points. ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2024, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-16-million-democratic-votes-go/1009786/63 "2024-11-06T23:36:19Z")
He’s good, isn’t he? And it only takes him 5:35. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2024, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-16-million-democratic-votes-go/1009786/64 "2024-11-07T02:47:27Z")
Thank you for that. I hadn’t seen it, but it pretty much sums up my feelings exactly. It’s truly exasperating to think that campaign strategists looked at the right track/wrong track numbers and decided that running on a continuity platform was going to work. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2024, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-16-million-democratic-votes-go/1009786/65 "2024-11-07T02:59:01Z")
Well, first of all, turnout was way down. TOTAL votes were down about 15 million. Had the same number of people voted, but in the same percentages as they did anyway, Harris would have gotten about 74 million votes. So, of the 14 million or so votes lost since 2020 (not 16 million) about half were people who just didn’t bother to vote at all. Turnout was expected to be down. It was down more than expected but still at historically normal levels. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2024, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-16-million-democratic-votes-go/1009786/66 "2024-11-07T03:28:17Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > TOTAL votes were down about 15 million As said already, they aren’t done counting. There are about 8M votes left in CA alone. About 500k in Oregon, 750k in Washington, 1.25M in Arizona… and smaller but not totally insignificant amounts elsewhere. Probably around 12M total. So not a huge difference at all. ---
**Author:** ![gortizxray](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/aeb1de/32.png) [@gortizxray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gortizxray)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2024, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-16-million-democratic-votes-go/1009786/67 "2024-11-07T06:14:03Z")
Hey newcomer here, i hope all is well, I work in a predominantly Trump leaning town and it was weird to see people (women) talking so bad about Harris… A neighbor was literally getting his guns ready because he had “heard” BLM was going to plan an attack. I wish i was making this up but this is the kind of stupidity that scares me. I agree completely the election shows the character of a country. We’ll get em next time. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2024, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-16-million-democratic-votes-go/1009786/68 "2024-11-07T06:16:57Z")
As of the afternoon of the 6th, it was 72 million votes for Trump and 66 million for Harris. I’d like to know where those two million extra votes for Trump came from. (Oh, yeah.) > **[Trump vs. Harris: Who won the popular vote? Who won the electoral college?](https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/politics/2024/11/06/who-won-the-popular-vote-in-2024-trump-vs-harris-election-results/76087705007/)** > > How much of the popular vote and electoral vote did former President Donald Trump win so far? Let's take a look. p.s. Half of them voted early. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2024, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-16-million-democratic-votes-go/1009786/69 "2024-11-07T12:24:37Z")
Isn’t hindsight wonderful? The obvious reason for the outcome is that some Democrat forgot to phone Raffensperger and ask him to find 16 million votes. Somewhere, _anywhere._ ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2024, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-16-million-democratic-votes-go/1009786/70 "2024-11-07T14:10:47Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > As said already, they aren’t done counting. There are about 8M votes left in CA alone. Sure, and as they count the number of “missing votes” will go down too. Turnout just wasn’t as high. 2020 was an outlier because Trump was in people’s faces and they were furious. Naturally, Trumpists are saying this proves 2020 was a hoax. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2024, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-16-million-democratic-votes-go/1009786/71 "2024-11-07T14:28:56Z")
Even if this somehow proved cheating in 2020 (it absolutely does not), it would mostly just show incompetent cheating. Kamala Harris got _more_ votes than Joe Biden in Georgia and Wisconsin and is currently only about 100,000 off in Michigan and Pennsylvania. Meanwhile she’s currently about 600,000 under what Biden got in Illinois. Were the mules so stupid in 2020 that they were wasting their efforts on Illinois? ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2024, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-16-million-democratic-votes-go/1009786/72 "2024-11-07T16:59:42Z")
> [@bump](#): > > The wild inflation of a few years ago and the fact that prices have stayed high without corresponding wage increases for most people is something that I feel may have been insurmountable for the Democrats. When people are paying 25% more for just about everything without a corresponding 25% increase in pay, they’re not going to be happy about that, and they’re very likely to blame the party in power. It’s worse than that, because people are not very happy with higher prices even if they _do_ get a matching wage increase. Why? Because higher prices are blamed on the policies of whomever is sitting in the White House, whereas the corresponding wage increases are thought _not_ to be related to inflation but because the wage-earner credits their increase in pay to their own efforts (i.e. their hard work, etc.). In addition, people typically only get pay raises once a year, so any pay increases related to inflation tend to lag behind the increase in prices. Finally, people are very aware of the day-to-day prices of consumer goods and services. I had a co-worker tell me yesterday that he still does a double-take when he is told that a sub sandwich costs $15. I myself do a double-take when I am told that a Big Mac is over $6 for just the sandwich, and nearly $12 for a meal with fries and drink. And both of us are well-paid engineers who not only can easily afford these prices but also have received wage increases in the last few years that were certainly related to inflation. (And just to throw some actual numbers in to the mix, the actual average cost of a Big Mac in the U.S. in 2024 is $5.29, according to McDonald’s. This is 21% higher than the average cost of $4.39 back in 2019. [Cite](https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/25/business/outrage-usd18-big-mac-consumer-revolt/index.html#:~:text=%E2%80%9CThe%2520average%2520price%2520of%2520a,average%2520cost%2520is%2520now%2520%25245.29.). With that said, prices are definitely a bit higher than that average here in Connecticut.) ---
**Author:** ![Mdm.President](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@Mdm.President](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mdm.President)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2024, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-16-million-democratic-votes-go/1009786/73 "2024-11-07T17:43:08Z")
Yeah, the overton window really shows how pervasive and pushy the left has been the last 20 years. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2024, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-16-million-democratic-votes-go/1009786/74 "2024-11-07T18:14:27Z")
Well if the left was pushing all this time with the rest of us, the window wouldn’t be so far to the other side. They all pull us to the right together, half of us don’t pull at all. Can’t win a tug of war that way. This also ignores the efforts from the right to divide the left. It works every time, sadly. They create a controversy point, then fan the flames and watch us fight with each other while laughing at us. We fall for it over and over again. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2024, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-16-million-democratic-votes-go/1009786/75 "2024-11-07T18:48:00Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Turnout just wasn’t as high. 2020 was an outlier because Trump was in people’s faces and they were furious. The ballot was literally in their faces as well. A lot of places did a one time pre-emptive mail ballot to all registered voters whether they wanted it or not. A lot easier to fill something out that literally just arrived with no action required. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2024, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-16-million-democratic-votes-go/1009786/76 "2024-11-07T20:13:34Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > Even if this somehow proved cheating in 2020 (it absolutely does not), it would mostly just show incompetent cheating. Kamala Harris got _more_ votes than Joe Biden in Georgia and Wisconsin and is currently only about 100,000 off in Michigan and Pennsylvania. Meanwhile she’s currently about 600,000 under what Biden got in Illinois. Were the mules so stupid in 2020 that they were wasting their efforts on Illinois? It’s possible that progressives angry with the Dems about Gaza or whatever may have stayed home in safe States while gritting their teeth and voting for Harris in swing States. That would produce those sort of results. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2024, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-16-million-democratic-votes-go/1009786/77 "2024-11-07T20:31:52Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > 2020, the Democrat was a white male. This time, it was a black woman. That’s where a lot of those votes went. Two things that implies that does not speak well of Democrats They were not motivated enough from 2017-2021 to vote for “anyone but Trump”. 20% of Democrats are racist, misogynists or both. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2024, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-16-million-democratic-votes-go/1009786/78 "2024-11-07T21:19:33Z")
The problem is not who Kamala Harris appeals to, she did everything she could there. The problem is who Donald Trump appeals to, which is a mob of angry morons who have been convinced that they are aggrieved, and who are just growing in number. The media environment is heavily weighted towards making stupid people angrier, instead of reinforcing how good they’ve got it. ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2024, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-16-million-democratic-votes-go/1009786/79 "2024-11-07T21:52:15Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > The problem is who Donald Trump appeals to How, exactly, did this keep 16 million people from voting? I’m certain it would have made national news if Trump voters were blockading voting locations to keep people out. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2024, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-16-million-democratic-votes-go/1009786/80 "2024-11-07T22:01:52Z")
> [@Projammer](#): > > How, exactly, did this keep 16 million people from voting? I’m certain it would have made national news if Trump voters were blockading voting locations to keep people out. I am pretty sure - it seemed clear to me - is that Trump appeal to people “Convinced they are aggrieved” and so they are perpetually motivated to vote because they keep getting angrier. And, admittedly, one would be hard pressed to find any people in all of human history who are more lucky, wealthy, and privileged and yet so angry. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-16-million-democratic-votes-go/1009786.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-16-million-democratic-votes-go/1009786.md?page=5)