# Where did the 16 million Democratic votes go? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 6, 2024, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-16-million-democratic-votes-go/1009786 "2024-11-06T14:01:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2024, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-16-million-democratic-votes-go/1009786/131 "2024-11-08T22:30:49Z")
> [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > My impression was that the Democrats were even more motivated to vote this year than they were in 2023, but I was wrong. To take an example at random I looked at California for 2024 and 2020, and the overall turnout was far lower this year. Harris still overwhelmingly won the state’s popular vote, but with far fewer voters on both sides. The decline in voting was greater on the Democrat side. It’s probably best to disregard what I said here. I didn’t realize that the West Coast states were still being counted; at least they were as of three hours ago when @Sage_Rat posted it. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2024, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-16-million-democratic-votes-go/1009786/132 "2024-11-08T22:38:20Z")
> [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > It’s probably best to disregard what I said here. I didn’t realize that the West Coast states were still being counted; at least they were as of three hours ago when @Sage_Rat posted it. This whole thread is a boondoggle of people failing to confirm the underlying assumption of the discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2024, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-16-million-democratic-votes-go/1009786/133 "2024-11-08T22:39:10Z")
And for a little perspective, if Harris had picked up just 8% more votes in every state, that’s 5.6M votes right? She also sweeps ALL of the swing states except possibly Arizona. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2024, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-16-million-democratic-votes-go/1009786/134 "2024-11-09T01:28:15Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > Yes, though the latest numbers (as of the morning of November 8) is that **Trump got 4 million FEWER votes than he did in 2024.** > > Harris lost even more (16 million as of today) Your numbers are wrong. Trump is now pretty much tied with 2020. Harris is 11 million behind 2020. ---
**Author:** ![duality72](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duality72/32/3910_2.png) [@duality72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duality72)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2024, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-16-million-democratic-votes-go/1009786/135 "2024-11-09T01:36:18Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > It doesnt matter to the low Int and low info voters, sure. I don’t expect this will be a popular take, here or anywhere, and I’m not sure how much I would advocate it yet, but I’ll throw it out there. Covid has made broad swaths of Americans considerably less intelligent. > **[Mounting research shows that COVID-19 leaves its mark on the brain, including...](https://theconversation.com/mounting-research-shows-that-covid-19-leaves-its-mark-on-the-brain-including-significant-drops-in-iq-scores-224216)** > > Two new high-profile studies add to the increasingly worrisome picture of how even mild cases of COVID-19 can have detrimental effects on brain health. Even mild first infections can result in a loss of three IQ points and subsequent infections lose another 2 points. Since we’ve had a “let it rip” strategy for the last four years, how many millions of people are on their fourth infection or more? That’s ten lost IQ points. I’m not one to think IQ maps directly to smartness, but it does mean there are a lot more people thinking less rationally and more primally or impulsively. Much like [lead poisoned a generation or two](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead%E2%80%93crime_hypothesis) into making bad decisions, Covid infections may be causing collective American decision-making to regress significantly. Ironically, Donald Trump’s disastrous handling of covid may have inadvertently led to his re-election. At least, that’s the theory. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2024, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-16-million-democratic-votes-go/1009786/136 "2024-11-09T03:23:49Z")
> [@duality72](#): > > Donald Trump’s disastrous handling of covid may have inadvertently led to his re-election. In general, I’d put his disastrous handling of most things with his re-election. Tariffs → Inflation → Re-elected because of inflation Weakening security posture → Emboldened enemies → War in Eastern Europe → Oil prices go up → Inflation → Re-elected because of inflation Weakening security posture → Emboldened enemies → Wars in Eastern Europe and the Middle East → Sense of security lowers → Re-elected because of sense of global insecurity Pulls nearly all the troops out of Afghanistan → Biden is forced to complete the pull-out that Trump set the stage for → Biden ends up looking incompetent when that falls apart In general, Trump made changes that all had a delayed effect. Those effects screwed us all over, and made people want to change the leadership. They failed to notice that they already had done that. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2024, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-16-million-democratic-votes-go/1009786/137 "2024-11-09T06:14:05Z")
The difference is down to \<11M, and California is _still_ less than 2/3 counted. There are probably another 6.8M left in CA, and another million or two elsewhere. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2024, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-16-million-democratic-votes-go/1009786/138 "2024-11-09T11:30:36Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > 65M Democratic votes in 2024 People aren’t realizing that millions of ballots have been counted over the past few days, with several million more to go. There in fact have been **[70.3 million popular votes for Harris as of this writing](https://apnews.com/projects/election-results-2024/)**, with more to come (CA, OR, and WA are taking their time). That oft-repeated “_16 million votes lost!!_” Is going to end up being seven or eight million. Still a hit, yes, but less than half of the false narrative making the rounds. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2024, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-16-million-democratic-votes-go/1009786/139 "2024-11-09T11:52:54Z")
> [@spifflog](#): > > That doesn’t make sense to me. Going back to 2016 for Dem votes for president: > > 2016: 66 million > 2020: 81 million > 2024: 65 million > > While I don’t believe that that there was voter fraud in 2020, I don’t have a good explanation for the 2020 number. Clinton, Biden, and Harris all ran a campaign based on “don’t vote for the other guy, he’d be a terrible president”. Only Biden had the advantage of running against Trump while he was an incumbent. Running as the challenger while one / one’s party is the incumbent doesn’t work as well as running as the challenger while one is actually the challenger. In other words, there are apparently 15 or so million people who are willing to vote against a President Trump, but not for a Democratic president. They had that opportunity in 2020, but not in 2016 or 2024. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2024, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-16-million-democratic-votes-go/1009786/140 "2024-11-09T11:59:00Z")
It’s kind of funny how the conspiracy theorists are incapable of seeing Trump as capable of increasing his support. Their guy just had the biggest victory for a Republican presidential candidate in two decades and their reaction is that it’s impossible and fraudulent for him to have won anyone over. I wish. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2024, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-16-million-democratic-votes-go/1009786/141 "2024-11-09T14:35:37Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > People aren’t realizing that millions of ballots have been counted over the past few days, with several million more to go. There in fact have been **[70.3 million popular votes for Harris as of this writing](https://apnews.com/projects/election-results-2024/)**, with more to come (CA, OR, and WA are taking their time). Do you think it will get close to Biden’s 81M? And remember Harris only needed less than 200K in each of the swing state. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2024, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-16-million-democratic-votes-go/1009786/142 "2024-11-09T14:36:36Z")
> [@FlikTheBlue](#): > > Only Biden had the advantage of running against Trump while he was an incumbent. So Dems can’t remember life 4-8 years ago? ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2024, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-16-million-democratic-votes-go/1009786/143 "2024-11-09T16:11:51Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > took 4 years for 15M Democrats to forget about the Trump Administration Why are we all acting like it’s a given all those people were _Democrats_, though? As opposed to many or even most being otherwise Whateverer types who in 2020 had time on their hands in the middle of an ongoing emergency that was in their faces. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2024, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-16-million-democratic-votes-go/1009786/144 "2024-11-09T16:19:41Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Why are we all acting like it’s a given all those people were _Democrats_, though? As opposed to many or even most being otherwise Whateverer types who in 2020 had time on their hands in the middle of an ongoing emergency that was in their faces Right. And likewise, many of the “whateverer types” probably voted for Trump this time around, because - no matter how much better than Europe we handled the crisis (these whateverer types don’t _know that_) - they feel the pain of inflation. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2024, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-16-million-democratic-votes-go/1009786/145 "2024-11-09T17:31:57Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > So Dems can’t remember life 4-8 years ago? Not all of them. But for the 15 million or so that didn’t turn out this time, yes, they likely have forgotten their emotional state that was contributing to their decision making 4 years ago. The emotions of wanting to vote against Trump are a lot easier to experience when Trump is actually POTUS. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2024, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-16-million-democratic-votes-go/1009786/146 "2024-11-09T17:56:34Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Why are we all acting like it’s a given all those people were _Democrats_, though? You really think Republicans voted for Biden in any non-miniscule number? ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2024, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-16-million-democratic-votes-go/1009786/147 "2024-11-09T18:01:33Z")
Did I say _that_ anywhere? ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2024, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-16-million-democratic-votes-go/1009786/148 "2024-11-09T18:03:11Z")
Then who voted for Biden and didn’t vote this election if not Republicans or Democrats? ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2024, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-16-million-democratic-votes-go/1009786/149 "2024-11-09T18:33:30Z")
Speaking of that an interesting video from Mick West, > **[Debunked: 2024 Election "Missing" votes](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGj7MHUxB-E%2F1)** > > A graph comparing the Presidential election results from 2024 to 2020 makes it look like the 2020 results are anomalous, indicating fraud. But if we account ... ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2024, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-16-million-democratic-votes-go/1009786/150 "2024-11-09T20:13:41Z")
> [@duality72](#): > > Ironically, Donald Trump’s disastrous handling of covid may have inadvertently led to his re-election. Except that apparently, iirc more republicans died that Democrats. > [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > In general, I’d put his disastrous handling of most things with his re-election. > > Tariffs → Inflation → Re-elected because of inflation Inflation was the reason most voters gave. > [@bordelond](#): > > People aren’t realizing that millions of ballots have been counted over the past few days, with several million more to go. There in fact have been **[70.3 million popular votes for Harris as of this writing](https://apnews.com/projects/election-results-2024/)**, with more to come (CA, OR, and WA are taking their time). Yep, Snopes even weighed in- > **[What to Know About the Millions of So-Called 'Missing Votes' in 2024 US Election](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/millions-of-missing-votes-2024-election/)** > > Some Republicans claimed vote tallies proved the 2020 election was stolen. Some Democrats claimed they proved the 2024 election was stolen. _Neither claim was true, for a very simple reason: The millions of “missing” votes weren’t actually missing — they simply hadn’t been counted yet._ > [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > So Dems can’t remember life 4-8 years ago? Not Dems, mostly independents, and yeah, everyone’s memories dim. The point is- prices increased almost 25% due to inflations, and honestly, few people understand economics. > [@JRDelirious](#): > > Why are we all acting like it’s a given all those people were _Democrats_, though? Right. > [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Then who voted for Biden and didn’t vote this election if not Republicans or Democrats? **Independents.** Also people who didnt vote in 2016. > **[Behind Biden’s 2020 Victory](https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2021/06/30/behind-bidens-2020-victory/)** > > A new analysis of 2020 validated voters examines change and continuity in the electorate, both of which contributed to Joe Biden’s victory. It looks at how new voters and voters who turned out in either 2016, 2018 or both voted in the 2020... _Overall, one-in-four 2020 voters (25%) had not voted in 2016._ > **[Partisan affiliations of registered voters](https://ballotpedia.org/Partisan_affiliations_of_registered_voters)** > > Ballotpedia: The Encyclopedia of American Politics _As of March 2024, 45 million registered voters in these areas identified themselves as **[Democrats](https://ballotpedia.org/Democrats)**. At 38.28%, Democrats represented the single largest share of registered voters in the states and territories that allow voters to indicate partisan affiliation on their registration forms._ _A total of 35.7 million registered voters identified themselves as **[Republicans](https://ballotpedia.org/Republicans)**, representing 30.35% of registered voters in these areas._ _a total of 32.5 million registered voters identified themselves as **independents** or unaffiliated with any political party. This amounted to 27.67% of registered voters in these areas._ So almost a third of voters are Independents. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-16-million-democratic-votes-go/1009786.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-16-million-democratic-votes-go/1009786.md?page=8)