# Where did the Christian idea of Satan come from? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 3, 2004, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-christian-idea-of-satan-come-from/238013 "2004-04-03T03:19:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Atreyu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@Atreyu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atreyu)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2004, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-christian-idea-of-satan-come-from/238013/1 "2004-04-03T03:19:14Z")
The title pretty much asks the whole question, I think. The concept of Satan as the source of evil and damnation is simply not found in Judaism…I do not know enough about Islam to say whether or not Satan is regarded similarly in that religion. Can anyone help to answer this question? Perhaps **Polycarp**? ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2004, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-christian-idea-of-satan-come-from/238013/2 "2004-04-03T03:31:51Z")
It comes from Judaism; “Satan” is from the Hebrew word for “adversary.” Satan was around for the Jews as the Heavenly prosecutor in the Old Testament long before Jesus showed up; see, e.g., the book of Job. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2004, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-christian-idea-of-satan-come-from/238013/3 "2004-04-03T03:52:26Z")
I thought it stemmed from Zoroastrianism, the idea of a god of light and a god of darkness. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2004, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-christian-idea-of-satan-come-from/238013/4 "2004-04-03T04:12:29Z")
The idea of Satan as the horned Prince of Evil seems pretty developed by the new Testament (the temptaion of Christ in the desert/with the dessert, etc.). I think I read somewhere that the whole Satan/demons/hell thing was greatly interested by Roman beliefs, since, as it was pointed out, this simply didn’t exist in the OT. ---
**Author:** ![dal\_timgar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a88e57/32.png) [@dal\_timgar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dal_timgar)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2004, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-christian-idea-of-satan-come-from/238013/5 "2004-04-03T20:56:43Z")
Our concept of HELL comes from Roman paganism. Underground fire and brimstone sounds like it comes from a people that lived near volcanoes. Volcanoes are in Italy not the middle-east. The original text of the Bible says SHEOL, HADES and GEHENNA. The translation into Hell is incorrect. Sheol means “dwelling place of spirits” or “abode of the dead.” Hades is from Greek mythology but the Greeks didn’t have a heaven. Everybody went to hades so it means about the same as sheol. I have never encountered a good explanation for THE DEVIL. I haven’t seen it in the Bible. I consider it to be a myth the religious leaders want to scare us with. try: OLD SOULS by Tom Shroder for some alternate perspective wierdness. Dal Timgar > [@Atreyu](#): > > The title pretty much asks the whole question, I think. The concept of Satan as the source of evil and damnation is simply not found in Judaism…I do not know enough about Islam to say whether or not Satan is regarded similarly in that religion. > > Can anyone help to answer this question? Perhaps **Polycarp**? ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2004, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-christian-idea-of-satan-come-from/238013/6 "2004-04-03T21:06:14Z")
> [@dal\_timgar](#): > > Our concept of HELL comes from Roman paganism. And similarly, the “evil horned one” imagery mentioned in other posts comes Greek/European paganism. I believe it wasn’t popular until later in the middle ages. Regarding your question for “the Devil,” it is widely believed to be a corruption of the generic pagan god forms, making them represent evil. > [@](#): > > Hades is from Greek mythology but the Greeks didn’t have a heaven. Everybody went to hades so it means about the same as sheol. Well, not quite true. There was Hades, then there was HADES. The Elysian Fields are one example of Hades not being “hell.” ---
**Author:** ![NorwegianBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/6bbea6/32.png) [@NorwegianBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NorwegianBlue)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2004, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-christian-idea-of-satan-come-from/238013/7 "2004-04-03T23:27:29Z")
> [@Zagadka](#): > > And similarly, the “evil horned one” imagery mentioned in other posts comes Greek/European paganism. I believe it wasn’t popular until later in the middle ages. Regarding your question for “the Devil,” it is widely believed to be a corruption of the generic pagan god forms, making them represent evil. That’s what I’ve always understood. There are references to Satan in the Bible as early as 1st Choronicles, however a description of the horned, trident weilding satan appears to have been a combination of various pagan gods such as Cernunos (horns), Poseiden (trident), Vulcan (fire)and Hades (Keeper of the Dead). ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2004, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-christian-idea-of-satan-come-from/238013/8 "2004-04-03T23:36:05Z")
> [@NorwegianBlue](#): > > That’s what I’ve always understood. There are references to Satan in the Bible as early as 1st Choronicles, however a description of the horned, trident weilding satan appears to have been a combination of various pagan gods such as Cernunos (horns), Poseiden (trident), Vulcan (fire)and Hades (Keeper of the Dead). Wouldn’t surprise me, taking from the pagan gods at the time. What I meant was that the concept of “the Devil is gonna getcha” was not, I believe, a popular bed time story for the kiddies until the middle ages. I could be wrong. ---
**Author:** ![UselessGit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/74df32/32.png) [@UselessGit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UselessGit)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2004, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-christian-idea-of-satan-come-from/238013/9 "2004-04-04T00:18:00Z")
> [@Zagadka](#): > > And similarly, the “evil horned one” imagery mentioned in other posts comes Greek/European paganism. I believe it wasn’t popular until later in the middle ages. Regarding your question for “the Devil,” it is widely believed to be a corruption of the generic pagan god forms, making them represent evil. > > Well, not quite true. There was Hades, then there was HADES. The Elysian Fields are one example of Hades not being “hell.” Horns and hooves from the Greek Pan, was it? A shame, Pan’s pretty cool for a god. ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2004, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-christian-idea-of-satan-come-from/238013/10 "2004-04-04T00:24:33Z")
> [@UselessGit](#): > > Horns and hooves from the Greek Pan, was it? A shame, Pan’s pretty cool for a god. Well, they are not _unique_ to Pan, though Pan is the general image of a satyr. The satyr is generally a goat-man critter representing things like springtime, sowing crops, and generally the masculine side of the story (hence the horns). Satyrs were widespread throughout European paganism, stemming in part from the Greeks (not much is known about the source of _that_). From all mythological accounts, Pan would be a pretty fun guy to hang out with, yea, though most modern pagans try not to let the slander and libel of the Catholic Church get in the way of that. ---
**Author:** ![OneYogini](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/b9e5f3/32.png) [@OneYogini](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneYogini)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2004, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-christian-idea-of-satan-come-from/238013/11 "2004-04-04T02:46:56Z")
Okay - again, since I’m doing a lot of researching lately, here is some information from the Assemblies of God website. (And again, I do not attend church or subscribe to all of the beliefs contained on the AG website. I did go to an AG many years ago.) So to the OP for info alone… "But, where did Satan come from? The Old Testament informs us that he, at one time, was one of the most attractive, powerful and wise of all the angels. Compelled by his pride, he sinned against God and was removed from his position of authority (Isaiah 14:12-14 and Ezekiel 28:14-19). Paul described him as one who appears as an “angel of light” (2 Corinthians 11:14). His strategies are often cloaked and subtle. In a world that is often obsessed with curiosity over evil, be it the occult or the latest horror movie, the question emerges: What is Satan like? J.I. Packer, noted Bible scholar, says, “The Scriptures picture Satan as the absolute opposite of God … Satan and his evil spirits [demons] are unimaginably evil, more cruel, more malicious, more perverted, more destructive, more disgustingly filthy, more despicable than anything our minds can conceive.” [http://ag.org/pentecostal-evangel/Articles2001/4558\_crosby.cfm](http://ag.org/pentecostal-evangel/Articles2001/4558_crosby.cfm) ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2004, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-christian-idea-of-satan-come-from/238013/12 "2004-04-04T02:51:07Z")
What **Guinastasia** said. Zoroastrianism probably. ---
**Author:** ![Freyr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/freyr/32/5763_2.png) [@Freyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freyr)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2004, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-christian-idea-of-satan-come-from/238013/13 "2004-04-04T03:36:16Z")
I wrote a paper for this a while back, let me quote from it: > [@](#): > > It was in the first century C.E. and the writings of the New Testament that Satan took on the characteristics by which we know him today. To understand this dramatic change in Satan’s character, it is necessary to look into the history of the Jews. Dr. Elaine Pagels, in her book, _The Origin of Satan_ (1995) gives an excellent account of this. > > Dr. Pagels first notes, “We know from experience how people dehumanize enemies, especially in wartime.” (Pagels 1995, 37) The ancient Israelites were no exception to this. But a vocal minority amongst the Israelites often voiced a dissident opinion, speaking out not against the enemies of Israel, but against their fellow Jews, blaming their misfortunes upon them rather than their external enemies. (Pagels 1995, 38) The writers in Israel, during the sixth century B.C.E took to describing their enemies as great mythological beasts like Rahab, Leviathan and “the dragon.” But the vocal minority used a different term to excoriated their fellow Jews, they used the term satan. (Pagels 1995, 39) These Jews saw their fellows as the intimate enemy and therefore more dangerous than the outsider, alien enemies. (Pagels 1995, 39). This practice continued into the first century of the C.E., when as Christianity was born, the practice of identifying one’s fellow Jews as satan took a sinister turn. Pagels say, “More radical than their predecessors, the dissidents began increasingly to invoke the satan to characterize their Jewish opponents; in the process they turned this rather unpleasant angel into a far grander- and far more malevolent- figure. No longer one of God’s faithful servants, he begins to become what he is for Mark and for later Christianity- God’s antagonist, his enemy, even his rival.” (Pagels 1995, 47) Essentially, the Christians created the evil version of Satan all on their own. The whole idea of being a bargainer of souls came later, in the 6th century, CE from the tale of Theophilius. ---
**Author:** ![FriendRob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecc23a/32.png) [@FriendRob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriendRob)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2004, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-christian-idea-of-satan-come-from/238013/14 "2004-04-04T16:46:00Z")
> [@Atreyu](#): > > The title pretty much asks the whole question, I think. The concept of Satan as the source of evil and damnation is simply not found in Judaism…I do not know enough about Islam to say whether or not Satan is regarded similarly in that religion. > > Can anyone help to answer this question? Perhaps **Polycarp**? We’ve discussed this several times before. Since you’re a member, you can search the archives. (Why, oh why, don’t they let guests use the search function?) I posted this in [a recent thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=243594&highlight=satan) : > [@](#): > > There’s some really interesting stuff about Satan (or, rather, dudes in similar roles with names like Samael, Azazel, Mastema, etc.) in the books of Enoch and Jubilees . This guy was an angel who came to earth to have sex with human women (ohhh, those human women!) along with his buddies, the Watchers (“I like to watch…”). They and their offspring go about raising heck for a while, then God rounds them up and throws them in prison. Satan is pissed and asks God how he can get any evil done without his buds (apparently Satan himself was still free), and can he have 10% of them back, please? To which God says (I’m not making this up), “OK”. The relevant verses are Jubilees 10:7-9 at the top of this page . > > The early origins of some of the OT myths that got comandeered for Satan’s bio are described in a great book, The Old Enemy , by Neil Forsyth. The Jews borrowed a Mesopotamian myth about a battle between some god or other and Yamm (=sea). The god split Yamm’s head. A lot of OT stories derive from this basic myth: the parting of the Red Sea, the flood story, and the creation story (God separates the heavens and the earth - in the Mesopotamian story the world is created from the two halves of Yamm’s body.) ---
**Author:** ![FriendRob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecc23a/32.png) [@FriendRob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriendRob)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2004, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-christian-idea-of-satan-come-from/238013/15 "2004-04-04T16:49:59Z")
Ooops, cut and paste lost the link to the relevant section of [Jubilees.](http://exodus2006.com/jub10-19.htm) ---
**Author:** ![TWDuke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@TWDuke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TWDuke)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2004, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-christian-idea-of-satan-come-from/238013/16 "2004-04-04T18:22:01Z")
> [@OneYogini](#): > > "But, where did Satan come from? The Old Testament informs us that he, at one time, was one of the most attractive, powerful and wise of all the angels. Compelled by his pride, he sinned against God and was removed from his position of authority (Isaiah 14:12-14 and Ezekiel 28:14-19). Paul described him as one who appears as an “angel of light” (2 Corinthians 11:14). His strategies are often cloaked and subtle. This might be accurate if it began, “Where did some of the common misconceptions about Satan come from?” Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28 are explicilty about earthly kings. Only by taking verses out of context can they be made to appear to be about anything else. Isa 14:4 - “You will take up this taunt against **the king of Babylon** : How the oppressor has come to an end. How his fury has ended!” Isa 14:16 - “Those who see you stare at you, they ponder your fate: Is this **the man** who shook the earth and made kingdoms tremble?” Ezekiel 28 is about a king of Tyre. Eze 28:2 - "Son of man, say to **the ruler of Tyre** , 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: In the pride of your heart you say, “I am a god; I sit on the throne of a god in the heart of the seas.” But you are **a man** and not a god, though you think you are as wise as a god. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2004, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-christian-idea-of-satan-come-from/238013/17 "2004-04-04T19:28:48Z")
> [@](#): > > The concept of Satan as the source of evil and damnation is simply not found in Judaism > [@](#): > > I think I read somewhere that the whole Satan/demons/hell thing was greatly interested by Roman beliefs, since, as it was pointed out, this simply didn’t exist in the OT. > [@](#): > > Essentially, the Christians created the evil version of Satan all on their own. There seems to be a perception, by some people, that the Old Testament was written, all religious thought came to an end, and then the Christians came along and started something entirely new. The historical reality is rather different. Religious thought and speculation within Judaism continued from the return from Babylon right up to the present day. There are number of religious themes that the Christians adopted from _within_ Judaism that the Jewish people looked over and dropped at about the time of the Christian heresy, but it is not accurate to claim that everything in Christianity that cannot be found in Judaism _currently_ originated with the Christians. (Obviously, some themes _did_ arise within Christianity: Jesus as God, God as Trinity.) As **FriendRob** has pointed out, there was a certain amount of borrowing and reworking from the Mesopotamians by Judaism and there was a certain amount of borrowing and reworking of that material by the Christians. In addition to the ideas expressed in Jubilees, there were several references to Satan (or the satans) as the enemy of humanity in the book of [Enoch](http://wesley.nnu.edu/noncanon/ot/pseudo/enoch.htm) and the [Wisdom of Solomon](http://www.hti.umich.edu/cgi/r/rsv/rsv-idx?type=DIV1&byte=3905445) from the Apocrypha indentifies the devil with the tempter in Eden. When those inter-testamental/apocryphal works were translated to (or written in) Greek, the term _diabolos_ was often used interchangeably with the name Satan. (Note that in the stories of the temptation of Jesus at the beginning of his ministry, his tempter is referred to by name as Satan and also called “the devil” in adjacent verses.) The stories of the rebellion of a group of angels against God in heaven arose in this period (possibly borrowed from the neighboring pagans), but it was known to the Jewish people, otherwise the comments in Jude 1:6, Jude 1:9, and 2 Peter 2:4, (to say nothing of several themes in Revelation–9:11, 12:7-9, etc.) would have been meaningless to their audiences. There has, of course, been some retro-fitting of beliefs. The references from the Assembly of God site to Isaiah 14:12-14 and Ezekiel 28:14-19 are examples of that. In Isaiah, for example, the prophet is condeming a pagan king by a reference to pagan mythology in which a minor god, Attar (“Daystar”), who has been bestowed with great favor rebels against the superior god, Baal, and is cast down. Once the “rebellion of the angels” had entered Jewish mythology, those stories were viewed in that light, but the initial prophecies of the prophets probably did not rely on an association of Satan to the rebelling god. (The use of the name _Lucifer_ (“Light Bearer”), in Isaiah was from a translation into Latin and the association of Lucifer with Satan is a much later event.) Basically, there was a period of several hundred years in which the character of Satan changed within the Jewish popular literature. Christianity latched on to one aspect that was prevalent in the first century and continued to develop it for several hundred years while Judaism (mostly) shed that line of thought and currently portrays Satan in an earlier manifestation. ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2004, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-christian-idea-of-satan-come-from/238013/18 "2004-04-04T20:26:16Z")
**Freyr said:** [qoute]Essentially, the Christians created the evil version of Satan all on their own. The whole idea of being a bargainer of souls came later, in the 6th century, CE from the tale of Theophilius. [/quote] Please support this from thr bible. ---
**Author:** ![Freyr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/freyr/32/5763_2.png) [@Freyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freyr)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2004, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-christian-idea-of-satan-come-from/238013/19 "2004-04-04T21:57:10Z")
> [@the raindog](#): > > **Freyr said:** > > Essentially, the Christians created the evil version of Satan all on their own. The whole idea of being a bargainer of souls came later, in the 6th century, CE from the tale of Theophilius. > > Please support this from thr bible. That’s my point, **Raindog** , it’s not supported in the Bible. By “bible” I assume you mean the sacred texts of Christians, encompassing what they call the Old and New Testaments. Again, from the paper I wrote: > [@](#): > > As the Christian tradition developed, the notion arose that magicians and diviners performed their amazing feats with some sort of supernatural aid. Since they were obviously not working with God, they, therefore must be working with Satan or demons. This is first suggested by Church fathers such as Origen and later fully developed by Augustine. Aquinas, who would become the official theologian of the Catholic churches, re-affirms this in _Sententiae_ where he states that magicians perform miracles through personal contracts with demons. (Lewis 2001, 203) This is the root of the best known legend of Satan; selling one’s soul in exchange for worldly riches and power. This is exemplified in a legend from the sixth century of the C.E. as told by Rosemary Guiley in _Encyclopedia of Witches and Witchcraft_ (1999). Theophilius was a monk from northern Cicilia. He was modest and when offered a bishop’s position, he declined because he felt he was not up to the job. The man who took the job, however, found strange delight in tormenting Theophilius even bringing charges of sorcery against him. Theophilius, therefore, lost his job. Theophilius wanted revenge and therefore went to see Salatin, an “evil old Jew.” Salatin called up Satan who offered Theophilius revenge in exchange for his soul. Theophilius agreed and signed a pact with Satan in his own blood. Theophilius got his revenge. The man who charged him was thrown out of office and Theophilius was installed in his stead. But Theophilius was not happy. He worried about his fate of eternity in torment. He began to pray to the Virgin Mary and God for his salvation. God forgave Theophilius, much to his delight. Theophilius made a public confession and burned the pact. He lived the rest of his life piously and in peace (Guiley 1999, 329). > > works cited: > > **Satanism Today: An Encyclopedia of Religion, Folklore and Popular Culture** by James R. Lewis. > > **Encyclopedia of Witches and Witchcraft 2nd Ed.** by Rosemary Ellen Guiley. The whole idea of Satan as a bargainer of souls arise out of theology developed in the second half of the first millenium and from folklore. ---
**Author:** ![Thingol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Thingol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thingol)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2004, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-christian-idea-of-satan-come-from/238013/20 "2004-04-04T23:40:01Z")
> [@TWDuke](#): > > This might be accurate if it began, “Where did some of the common misconceptions about Satan come from?” So you’re saying there are correct conceptions about Satan? Hey, it’s all myth, it’s been evolving forever, and continues to. From now on, people will believe that the Bible states that Satan has a baby inflicted with progeria. I taught lit at a large state university for several years in the southeastern US, and I found that much of what my students believed to be Biblical actually came from Milton. The Satan they believed in (and around here, most do) came right off the pages of “Paradise Lost”. It’s surprising what “Bible-believing Christians” don’t know about the Bible. I recall a student who refused to correct an error in one of her essays which asserted that the “Seven Deadly Sins” were of Biblical origin. So the Bible is only part of the story. Literature and even pop culture have a very heavy influence these days.