# Where did the fried chicken/collard greens/watermelon stereotype come from? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 17, 2002, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-fried-chicken-collard-greens-watermelon-stereotype-come-from/143248 "2002-12-17T04:08:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Texican](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ebca7d/32.png) [@Texican](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Texican)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2002, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-fried-chicken-collard-greens-watermelon-stereotype-come-from/143248/41 "2002-12-18T13:53:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by chriszarate \* > \*\*Get yourself a cheap cut of beef, beat it like a red-headed stepchild, dip it in batter, and fry that sucker. Chicken Fried Steak. \*\* I’m sorry, that just isn’t enough. Try this recipe: Go to [southwest.com](http://southwest.com), buy a ticket to Austin or San Antonio. Head west for 1 to 6 hours. Find a small town diner with a bunch of pickups in the parking lot. Order chicken fried steak. With tea. and Gravy. on second thought forget ordering gravy, it will be served in abundance anyway. Now finish your pie and go back north. Never tell anyone where you have been, we don’t need any more yankees coming here. Y’all have a nice day. ---
**Author:** ![Master\_Wang-Ka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/master_wang-ka/32/3325_2.png) [@Master\_Wang-Ka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Master_Wang-Ka)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2002, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-fried-chicken-collard-greens-watermelon-stereotype-come-from/143248/42 "2002-12-18T13:59:06Z")
Mmm… I beg to differ. I have ordered, and been served, perfectly good chicken fried steaks as far north as Michigan. Barbecue, on the other hand, seems to be beyond the abilities of Yankees, for some reason… ---
**Author:** ![martin\_ibn\_martin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@martin\_ibn\_martin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/martin_ibn_martin)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2002, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-fried-chicken-collard-greens-watermelon-stereotype-come-from/143248/43 "2002-12-18T17:53:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by handsomeharry \* > \*\*i think that it’s not part of the stereotype because the yankees don’t know what cf steak is. \*\* I first had CFS at a Denny’s in Nashua New Hampshire ten years ago. I still love it and get it at my local Travel Stop trucker joint in CT. Can’t find it much anywhere else, though. I was born and raised lower middle-class in NH, one layoff out of the trailer park. I tend to like the simpler, peasant food, whatever region the cuisine is from. Call it my white trash origins juxtaposed with my curent love of multicultural exploration. Martin ---
**Author:** ![martin\_ibn\_martin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@martin\_ibn\_martin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/martin_ibn_martin)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2002, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-fried-chicken-collard-greens-watermelon-stereotype-come-from/143248/44 "2002-12-18T17:56:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Derleth \* > \*\ ***Khadaji** : I shudder to think what they would have thought of a local food, Chester fried chicken. > > :smack: > > **Rest of y’all** : Stop it! You’re making me hungry and nostalgic. 😃 > > (Of course, the _best_ way to make collard greens and spinach is to cook it with plenty of vinegar and bacon.) > > Maybe this is a Midwestern thing more than a Southern thing, but why hasn’t anyone mentioned fried catfish yet? Perhaps the most important, most traditional Missouri meal is fried catfish, fried okra, collard greens, and cornbread. With plenty of Co-Cola to wash it down. 🙂 \*\* And Chester Fried is all over the North East ---
**Author:** ![martin\_ibn\_martin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@martin\_ibn\_martin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/martin_ibn_martin)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2002, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-fried-chicken-collard-greens-watermelon-stereotype-come-from/143248/45 "2002-12-18T17:58:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by martin\_ibn\_martin \* > \*\*And Chester Fried is all over the North East \*\* And we Damn Yankees call catfish “hornpout” I’m not sure why… ---
**Author:** ![lee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lee/32/7455_2.png) [@lee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lee)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2002, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-fried-chicken-collard-greens-watermelon-stereotype-come-from/143248/46 "2002-12-18T22:25:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Wang-Ka \* > \*\*Mmm… I beg to differ. I have ordered, and been served, perfectly good chicken fried steaks as far north as Michigan. > > Barbecue, on the other hand, seems to be beyond the abilities of Yankees, for some reason… \*\* Have you tried it in KC or Chicago? ---
**Author:** ![ForumBot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ee59a6/32.png) [@ForumBot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ForumBot)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2002, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-fried-chicken-collard-greens-watermelon-stereotype-come-from/143248/47 "2002-12-18T23:26:26Z")
My opinion? It’s because black people DO eat watermellon/fried chicken more than other races. Why do we characterize large lesbian women with having deep voices and riding motorcycles? Because a pretty good deal of them do these things. Why do we characterize the chinese with an accent? (i.e. OH SO SOLLY!) Because many of them do pronounce it like that. Stereotypes must come from somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Ol\_Gaffer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Ol\_Gaffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ol_Gaffer)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2002, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-fried-chicken-collard-greens-watermelon-stereotype-come-from/143248/48 "2002-12-18T23:42:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ForumBot \* > \*\*My opinion? It’s because black people DO eat watermellon/fried chicken more than other races. > > Why do we characterize large lesbian women with having deep voices and riding motorcycles? > > Because a pretty good deal of them do these things. > Why do we characterize the chinese with an accent? (i.e. OH SO SOLLY!) > > Because many of them do pronounce it like that. > > Stereotypes must come from somewhere. \*\* Whoa. Am I being whooshed? ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2002, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-fried-chicken-collard-greens-watermelon-stereotype-come-from/143248/49 "2002-12-19T01:37:51Z")
**ForumBot** , explain yourself before you pull a Trent Lott and a mod hauls your ass away. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2002, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-fried-chicken-collard-greens-watermelon-stereotype-come-from/143248/50 "2002-12-19T01:46:11Z")
> [@](#): > > Why do we characterize **large** lesbian women with having deep voices and riding motorcycles? So. What do the _petite_ ones with the high, squeaky voices ride? :wally ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2002, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-fried-chicken-collard-greens-watermelon-stereotype-come-from/143248/51 "2002-12-19T02:08:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Derleth \* > \*\ ***ForumBot** , explain yourself before you pull a Trent Lott and a mod hauls your ass away. \*\* I think he already did. He makes the valid point that sometimes stereotypes are generated and/or perpetuated because they have some greater or lesser _degree_ of accuracy with respect to the characterization that the stereotype addresses. Many blacks are originally from the south and the food items mentioned in the OP are popular southern foods. It is not surprising that it may be true that blacks as demographic cohort do eat more watermelon and fried chicken then the rest of the non-black US in total, but I doubt that they eat more of these items (on a relative basis) than white southerners. The main negative aspect of stereotypes is that although they can be _somewhat_ accurate, they can also be highly inaccurate in specific cases, and when you use them to broad brush entire groups you can often wind up in an ignorant and/or bigoted position relative to the individuals in those groups you are dealing with. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2002, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-fried-chicken-collard-greens-watermelon-stereotype-come-from/143248/52 "2002-12-19T02:41:43Z")
Kind of like Koreans and dogs. ---
**Author:** ![Kat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b19c9b/32.png) [@Kat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kat)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2002, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-fried-chicken-collard-greens-watermelon-stereotype-come-from/143248/53 "2002-12-19T04:31:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by UncleBill \* > It is Steak fried similarly to Fried Chicken. I have seen in called, blaspemously, “Country Fried Steak”, which may have some slight culinary variation from Chicken Fried Steak. My theory for the name change is: Because people are stupid. I once ordered “chicken-fried steak” without noticing that the menu actually said “country fried steak” and got a response of “Uh…you know it’s \*_beef_, right?” It’s possible that people thought the “chicken-fried” means that the meat contained or was chicken, thus gradually inspiring the “country fried” designation to pop up and start spreading. ---
**Author:** ![Super\_Gnat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Super\_Gnat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Super_Gnat)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2002, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-fried-chicken-collard-greens-watermelon-stereotype-come-from/143248/54 "2002-12-19T05:10:19Z")
As far as turnip greens, back on de plantation the master would eat the turnips and not the “greens” part of the plant. Ergo, the slaves would prepare it and eat it themselves, a dish that has continued up to the present day. I think this is true of collard greens too, but I’m not sure what would have been attached to the end. ---
**Author:** ![kniz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c37758/32.png) [@kniz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kniz)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2002, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-fried-chicken-collard-greens-watermelon-stereotype-come-from/143248/55 "2002-12-19T05:51:48Z")
When we lived in Cincinnati, this woman from Bulgaria would give us veggies out of her garden. She could not believe that we really didn’t care for turnips, but would take all of the greens that she was throwing away. James Michner’s **Poland** describes how a woman makes sausage out of the parts of a hog discarded by the aristrocrats. There are probably many other foods with such an origin. Usually very good foods, I must add. Clarksdale, Mississippi has a large black population and more Fried Chicken restaurants than you’ll see in any town its size. That is not a coincidence. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2002, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-fried-chicken-collard-greens-watermelon-stereotype-come-from/143248/56 "2002-12-19T18:17:31Z")
Just chiming in to support the minstrel show theory, and to provide additional evidence. There is a very old minstrel song entitled “Watermelon Smilin’ on the Vine.” The song is about the joys of eating stolen watermelons, and it also incorporates references to most of the foods we’re talking about here. It is sung in a broad, stereotyped “black dialect.” Sample lyric (from memory): _Chicken and pole beans and gravy am good Possum meat am very so fine But give me, oh give me Well Lord I wish you would Just that watermelon smilin’ on the vine._ This song seems to have been hugely popular in its day, and it wouldn’t surprise me if it was a large factor in creating (or at least popularizing) the stereotype. The “black kid eating a (stolen?) watermelon” image is a very old racist icon. It shows up at least as early as the late 1800’s on postcards and such. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2002, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-fried-chicken-collard-greens-watermelon-stereotype-come-from/143248/57 "2002-12-19T18:30:33Z")
Holy cow! I found a cleaned-up version of the watermelon song in the [Girl Scout Song Book](http://haataja.virtualave.net/scouts/songs4.html) of all places (scroll down). Yikes! There’s another version of it [here](http://www.fieldcamp.net/music.htm). Neither of these versions incorporates all the food references I have heard in other versions of the song. I also found a reference to a 1936 recording of the song [here](http://sunsite.kth.se/feastlib/mrf/yinyue/pw/HALANE.HTM). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-fried-chicken-collard-greens-watermelon-stereotype-come-from/143248.md?page=2)