# Where did the Jesus fish come from? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 23, 2002, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-jesus-fish-come-from/138406 "2002-11-23T22:40:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![pezwookiee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9d8465/32.png) [@pezwookiee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pezwookiee)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2002, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-jesus-fish-come-from/138406/1 "2002-11-23T22:40:09Z")
Where did the Jesus fish come from? You know the one on the back of cars? And why a fish? ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2002, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-jesus-fish-come-from/138406/2 "2002-11-23T22:43:56Z")
IIRC it was an ancient symbol of xtianity in the early days, when they were persecuted heavily. Also something to do with the saying that xtians were “fishers of men”. When they started sticking it on cars, I’ve no idea. Doubtless **polycarp** , **tomndeb** , or some other poster wise in the ways of the church will be by to enlighten. ---
**Author:** ![black\_rabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f19dbf/32.png) [@black\_rabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/black_rabbit)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2002, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-jesus-fish-come-from/138406/3 "2002-11-23T22:45:56Z")
They evolved from the Cambrian-era Jesus Anaspis. ---
**Author:** ![Ellen\_Cherry](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellen_cherry/32/3600_2.png) [@Ellen\_Cherry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellen_Cherry)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2002, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-jesus-fish-come-from/138406/4 "2002-11-23T22:49:39Z")
The fish symbol was used by early Christians so that they could identify one another and their secret places of worship in the Catacombs. The Greek word for fish, IXOYC, I think was chosen with the letters representing Jesus Christ God’s Son Savior. This is all from memory, so I could be a little off. I’ve always been a little disappointed the symbol was interpreted as meaning funadmentalist by some, and the Darwin “counter symbol” developed. I’ve always thought it was a neat, historical symbol full of rich meaning. Now if I dare display it I’d be branded as a creationist. Which, as a Catholic, couldn’t be further from the truth. ---
**Author:** ![wolfstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d6d6ee/32.png) [@wolfstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfstu)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2002, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-jesus-fish-come-from/138406/5 "2002-11-23T22:50:07Z")
For some, the idea of Jesus, and his followers, as _Fishers of Men_ is a powerful symbol. In the New Testament, Christ is reported as feeding a great crowd of people with only a handful of fishes and a little bread. As well, considerable attention is given to the way he is said to have called particular men to be his disciples. Some of the famous twelve apostles were fishermen by trade, and Christ is said to have called them to ‘Follow me, and become fishers of men’; meaning that they will gather people to the word of God the way they once gathered fish to the boat. The fish is also a symbol of poverty; fishermen are generally not wealthy men. In particular, those chosen by Christ as Disciples were not. The fish is a symbol of what provides life and food; For a fisherman, the fish is his livelihood, and nourishment for the body. in the same way, Christ is said to bring eternal life and to nourish the soul. The image is of Christ as messenger, community-builder and provider, and as figure identifying with the common man. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2002, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-jesus-fish-come-from/138406/6 "2002-11-23T22:50:32Z")
Catholic legend has it that the fish was a secret sign of the entrance to the catacombs, where the christians hid from roman persecution. Peace, mangeorge ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2002, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-jesus-fish-come-from/138406/7 "2002-11-23T22:54:41Z")
Several factors play a role, in particular the trade of several of the apostles, including Peter, as fishermen, and Jesus’ exhortation "I will make you fishers of men. But the main one is a Greek acrostic: From [The Catholic Encyclopedia](http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06083a.htm): > [@](#): > > The symbol itself may have been suggested by the miraculous multification of the loaves and fishes or the repast of the seven Disciples, after the Resurrection, on the shore of the Sea of Galilee (John 21:9), but its popularity among Christians was due principally, it would seem, to the famous acrostic consisting of the initial letters of five Greek words forming the word for fish (Ichthys), which words briefly but clearly described the character of Christ and His claim to the worship of believers: Iesous Christos Theou Yios Soter, i.e. Jesus Christ, Son of God, Saviour. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2002, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-jesus-fish-come-from/138406/8 "2002-11-23T23:27:25Z")
About month ago we had a discussion on [Whats the story behind the Jesus Fish?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=140281) I don’t recall when it became popular to stick a chrome-colored fish on cars, but it seems to have been within the last fifteen years. Whether it reflects a social movement or simply fortuitous marketing, I’m not sure. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2002, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-jesus-fish-come-from/138406/9 "2002-11-24T00:20:43Z")
Jesus Fish on cars strted getting popular over fifteen years ago, but not by much (they were big before my last major move, which is how I know). They spawned a lot of imitators and parodies – the Jesus Fish with "Jesus"inside, rather than theGreek Letters IXThYS, the Darwin Fish with lgs, etc. My favorite of these is the fish with GHOTI inside. (If you don’t get it, look throgh some old joke books). ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2002, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-jesus-fish-come-from/138406/10 "2002-11-24T02:52:04Z")
> [@](#): > > My favorite of these is the fish with GHOTI inside. Of course, these probably cause GBS to spin madly in his grave. ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2002, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-jesus-fish-come-from/138406/11 "2002-11-24T05:23:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tomndebb \* > \*\*Of course, these probably cause GBS to spin madly in his grave. \*\* I dunno – I think Shaw would crack a wry smile if there are Christians buying and displaying ‘ghoti’ fish thinking they’re some obscure but legit scriptural translation. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2002, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-jesus-fish-come-from/138406/12 "2002-11-24T06:28:36Z")
While I hate to disagree with **tomndebb** , there is _some_ evidence that the Christians merely borrowed the fish symbol from other faiths. Brace yourselves, folks, I’ve gotta do a long quote here, (note to Mods, the source is public domain, so no copyright worries, it’s from the [1880’s book](http://www.angelfire.com/realm2/religiousmyths/) that I’m transcribing) > [@](#): > > “Next to the sacred monogram the _Fish_ takes its place in importance as a sign of Christ in his special office of _Saviour._” “In the Talmud the Messiah is called ‘Dag’ or ‘Fish.’” “Where did the Jews learn to apply ‘Dag’ to their Messiah? And why did the primitive Christians adopt it as a sign of Christ?” “I cannot disguise facts. Truth demands no concealment or apology. _Paganism_ has its types and prophecies of Christ as well as Judaism. What then is the Dag-on of the old Babylonians? The _fish_-god or being that taught them all their civilization.”[sup]1[/sup] > > As Mr. Lundy says, “truth demands no concealment or apology,” therefore, when the truth is exposed, we find that _Vishnu_, the Hindoo Messiah, Preserver, Mediator, and _Saviour_, was represented as a “dag,” or fish. The _Fish_ takes its place in importance as a sign of _Vishnu_ in his special office of _Saviour_. and > [@](#): > > The fish was sacred among the Babylonians, Assyrians and Phenicians, as it is among the Romanists of to-day. It was sacred also to _Venus_, and the Romanists still eat it on the very day of the week which was called “_Dies veneris_,” Venus’ day; fish day. It was an emblem of _fecundity_. The most ancient symbol of the productive power was a fish, and it is accordingly found to be the universal symbol upon many of the earliest coins. Pythagoras and his followers did not eat fish. They were ascetics, and the eating of fish was supposed to tend to carnal desires. This ancient superstition is entertained by many even at the present day. and > [@](#): > > But, we may ask why was Buddha not only called Fo, or Po, but _Dag-Po_, which was literally the Fish PO, or Fish Buddha? The fish did not stand for his name. The idea that Jesus was called a fish because the Messiah is designated “Dag” in the Talmud, is also an unsatisfactory explanation. (emphasis and obsolete spelling in the original) The chapter then goes on to cite other religions symbols that have been used as Messiah symbols by not only Christianity, but other **older** religions as well. So, in all likelihood, the early church borrowed the symbol of the fish from other religions, just as the church borrowed some of its holidays and religious figures as well. [sup]1[/sup] Monumental Christianity, pp. 130, 132, 133. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2002, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-jesus-fish-come-from/138406/13 "2002-11-24T06:32:02Z")
Fecal matter! **tomndebb** , made the comments that inspired this post in the linked thread, not this one, just to clear up any confusion.