# Where did the names for the low US enlisted ranks come from? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 9, 2005, 9:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-names-for-the-low-us-enlisted-ranks-come-from/334852 "2005-12-09T09:17:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2005, 9:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-names-for-the-low-us-enlisted-ranks-come-from/334852/1 "2005-12-09T09:17:00Z")
And were they intetionally made to invite dirty jokes or was that was an added benefit? The Navy has Seamen. The Army and Marines have Privates. Fortunatly the Air force has the less dirty airmen. Maybe it was an incentive to make E4 just to avoid the stupid name? ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2005, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-names-for-the-low-us-enlisted-ranks-come-from/334852/2 "2005-12-09T13:35:16Z")
Obviously, they were not considered to be dirty jokes when they were coined. “Seaman” predates “semen” by over a thousand years (the OED’s first cite is from 329 AD) and had always meant “a sailor.” “Private soldier” – meaning a soldier who was not an officer – dates from 1579. “Private parts” was in common usage starting 1785 (though there is one anomolous example from 1634). In any case, it wasn’t until the past 30-50 years that anyone made the connections. By then, “seaman” and “private” were well-established. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2005, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-names-for-the-low-us-enlisted-ranks-come-from/334852/3 "2005-12-09T13:44:16Z")
For what it is worth the Navy E3 can be Seaman as you stated but they can also be Fireman (Ship’s engineers like Electrician Mates and Boiler Mates) or Airman if the work with Naval Air. As I went in as an E3, I was only a Seaman for boot camp and before I started training as an Electrician Mate I had to change my uniform insignia to Fireman. Jim ---
**Author:** ![A.R.Cane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee7513/32.png) [@A.R.Cane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A.R.Cane)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2005, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-names-for-the-low-us-enlisted-ranks-come-from/334852/4 "2005-12-09T14:01:06Z")
To expand on infranchi’s observation: Seaman- white stripes Fireman- red stripes Airman- green stripes Constructionman- light blue stripes (Seabees) As to the OP, sexual cannotations exist in the mind. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2005, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-names-for-the-low-us-enlisted-ranks-come-from/334852/5 "2005-12-09T14:03:33Z")
The last I heard, the Apprenticeship Groups in the US Navy are: [list][li]Seaman[/li][li]Airman[/li][li]Fireman[/li][li]Hospitalman[/li][li]Constructionman[/li][/quote] I don’t remember what date the Dentalman group was (will be?) disestablished. I think the list above includes all of the groups. Please add any I’ve missed. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2005, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-names-for-the-low-us-enlisted-ranks-come-from/334852/6 "2005-12-09T14:05:13Z")
_Corrected posting_ The last I heard, the Apprenticeship Groups in the US Navy are: [ul][li]Seaman[/li][li]Airman[/li][li]Fireman[/li][li]Hospitalman[/li][li]Constructionman[/ul][/li]I don’t remember what date the Dentalman group was (will be?) disestablished. I think the list above includes all of the groups. Please add any I’ve missed. [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2005, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-names-for-the-low-us-enlisted-ranks-come-from/334852/7 "2005-12-09T14:30:55Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > …snip…The last I heard, the Apprenticeship Groups in the US Navy are: > [ul][li]Seaman[/li][li]Airman[/li][li]Fireman[/li][li]Hospitalman[/li][li]Constructionman[/ul][/li]I don’t remember what date the Dentalman group was (will be?) disestablished. > …snip… Well I forgot about Constructionman, but I thought the Coreman were Seaman. Learn something new everyday. 🙂 From the Navy [http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/ranks/rates/rates2.html](http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/ranks/rates/rates2.html) Jim ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2005, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-names-for-the-low-us-enlisted-ranks-come-from/334852/8 "2005-12-09T14:55:03Z")
No Hospitalcorpsman is below the rate of Petty Officer Third Class. Nonrated personnel in that field are Hospitalman. It’s one of the very many quirks of the rate/rank/paygrade system of the US Navy. ---
**Author:** ![A.R.Cane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee7513/32.png) [@A.R.Cane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A.R.Cane)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2005, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-names-for-the-low-us-enlisted-ranks-come-from/334852/9 "2005-12-09T15:10:52Z")
I retired in 1979 and I’m sure there have been some changes since then. A Seaman Recruit used to wear one diagonal strip. When you graduated from “boot camp” you were automatically advanced to Seaman Apprentice w/ 2 diagonal stripes, now you must take and pass an exam to be advanced. If you were assigned to a class “A” rating school you became a “striker” for that rating. Technically you were not supposed to wear a “rating badge” unless you were a graduate of an “A” school, although some did to indicate a commitment to becoming that specialty. U.S. Navy and Coast Guard insignia of rank include a rating badge which indicates your job or specialty and you are officially referred to by your rank and rating. i.e.: a petty officer third class (E-4) in the machinist rating was officially addressed a “Machinists Mate Third Class” This is a very old naval tradition and the British Navy refers to petty officers in general as “ratings”. The rating of “Hospitalman”, to the best of my memory, is unique in its core name. Other officially designated “strikers” were referred to by their rating followed by the generic seaman, fireman, airman or constructionman, i.e.: a graduate of machinist mate school is officially referred to as “Machinist Mate Fireman”, whereas a graduate of hospitalman “A” school chaged the designation from Seaman to Hospitalman. I never heard the term “Dentalman”, but perhaps that’s another change. ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2005, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-names-for-the-low-us-enlisted-ranks-come-from/334852/10 "2005-12-09T18:25:59Z")
> [@A.R. Cane](#): > > As to the OP, sexual cannotations exist in the mind. Smithers: “I think Women and Seamen don’t mix” Mr. Burns: “We know what you think, Smithers” ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2005, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-names-for-the-low-us-enlisted-ranks-come-from/334852/11 "2005-12-09T18:27:38Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > _Corrected posting_ > > The last I heard, the Apprenticeship Groups in the US Navy are: > [ul][li]Seaman[/li][li]Airman[/li][li]Fireman[/li][li]Hospitalman[/li][li]Constructionman[/ul][/li]I don’t remember what date the Dentalman group was (will be?) disestablished. > > I think the list above includes all of the groups. Please add any I’ve missed. [/QUOTE] That brings up another question: Why a group for Dentalmen? I would think that they’d be neatly folded into the Hopitalman group, since they both fall under the medical profession. ---
**Author:** ![Bookkeeper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bookkeeper/32/281_2.png) [@Bookkeeper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bookkeeper)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2005, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-names-for-the-low-us-enlisted-ranks-come-from/334852/12 "2005-12-09T19:03:48Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > Obviously, they were not considered to be dirty jokes when they were coined. > > “Seaman” predates “semen” by over a thousand years (the OED’s first cite is from 329 AD) and had always meant “a sailor.” > > “Private soldier” – meaning a soldier who was not an officer – dates from 1579. “Private parts” was in common usage starting 1785 (though there is one anomolous example from 1634). > > In any case, it wasn’t until the past 30-50 years that anyone made the connections. By then, “seaman” and “private” were well-established. I’ve run across dirty jokes from as far back as the 1850s that use the terms. ---
**Author:** ![Agent\_Foxtrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc29f/32.png) [@Agent\_Foxtrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agent_Foxtrot)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2005, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-names-for-the-low-us-enlisted-ranks-come-from/334852/13 "2005-12-09T19:53:40Z")
> [@A.R. Cane](#): > > To expand on infranchi’s observation: > > Seaman- white stripes > Fireman- red stripes > Airman- green stripes > Constructionman- light blue stripes (Seabees) > > As to the OP, sexual cannotations exist in the mind. Airman stripes are dark blue, not green. Adam ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2005, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-names-for-the-low-us-enlisted-ranks-come-from/334852/14 "2005-12-09T20:03:40Z")
> [@Agent Foxtrot](#): > > Airman stripes are dark blue, not green. > > Adam Check the Navy Link: Here it is again [http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/ranks/rates/rates2.html](http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/ranks/rates/rates2.html) Very Green. I was on the USS Ranger CV61 and I remember the green stripes very well. Are you thinking Air Force Airman? ---
**Author:** ![Crowbar\_of\_Irony\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f08c70/32.png) [@Crowbar\_of\_Irony\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crowbar_of_Irony_3)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2005, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-names-for-the-low-us-enlisted-ranks-come-from/334852/15 "2005-12-10T04:22:25Z")
What about Corporal? Does it has anything to do with Corporate? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2005, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-names-for-the-low-us-enlisted-ranks-come-from/334852/16 "2005-12-10T04:26:35Z")
> [@ExtraKun](#): > > What about Corporal? Does it has anything to do with Corporate? [corporal](http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=corporal) (n.) 1579, from [M.Fr](http://M.Fr). corporal, from It. caporale “a corporal,” from capo “chief, head,” from L. caput “head” (see head). So called because he was in charge of a body of troops. Perhaps infl. by It. corpo, from L. corps “body.” Or corps may be the source and caput the influence, as the OED believes. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2005, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-names-for-the-low-us-enlisted-ranks-come-from/334852/17 "2005-12-10T12:05:29Z")
> [@A.R. Cane](#): > > I retired in 1979 and I’m sure there have been some changes since then. A Seaman > Recruit used to wear one diagonal strip. When you graduated from “boot camp” you > were automatically advanced to Seaman Apprentice w/ 2 diagonal stripes, now you must take and pass an exam to be advanced. The Navy decided that there was no need to have a single stripe for the lowest Enlisted rate. I kind of liked it, although at that time I was in the Army which didn’t (and still doesn’t) have any stripes for their equivalent rank. > [@](#): > > If you were assigned to a class “A” rating school you became a “striker” for that rating. > Technically you were not supposed to wear a “rating badge” unless you were a > graduate of an “A” school, although some did to indicate a commitment to becoming > that specialty. Once someone **graduates** from the Class “A” school or passes the Advancement Exam with enough points to be designate a Striker, he or she is then entitled and required to wear the rating insignia to indicate he or she is a Designated Striker. > [@](#): > > U.S. Navy and Coast Guard insignia of rank include a rating badge > which indicates your job or specialty and you are officially referred to by your rank > and rating. i.e.: a petty officer third class (E-4) in the machinist rating was officially > addressed a “Machinists Mate Third Class” > This is a very old naval tradition and the British Navy refers to petty officers in general > as “ratings”. The courtesy title for someone in the paygrades of E4 through E6 is Petty Officer; for E7, Senior Chief, for E8, Master Chief. The full official title, though, as you stated, is the specialty followed by the rate. > [@](#): > > The rating of “Hospitalman”, to the best of my memory, is unique in its core name. > Other officially designated “strikers” were referred to by their rating followed by the > generic seaman, fireman, airman or constructionman, i.e.: a graduate of machinist > mate school is officially referred to as “Machinist Mate Fireman”, whereas a graduate of hospitalman “A” school chaged the designation from Seaman to Hospitalman. I never heard the term “Dentalman”, but perhaps that’s another change. The Dental Technician specialty and its associated Dentalmen came out of the Hospital Corpsman & Hospitalman field. Evidently, the Navy decided just to tweak the terminology. At any rate (bad pun, sorry), the DTs have been or are in the process of being merged with the Hospital Corspman specialty. BTW, the Hospital Corps is the only Enlisted Corps in the US Navy. ---
**Author:** ![Argo84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b19c9b/32.png) [@Argo84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argo84)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2005, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-names-for-the-low-us-enlisted-ranks-come-from/334852/18 "2005-12-10T13:41:06Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > The courtesy title for someone in the paygrades of E4 through E6 is Petty Officer; for E7, Senior Chief, for E8, Master Chief. Hate to nit-pick, but I think that an E7 is a Chief, E8 a Senior Chief and E9 a Master Chief. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2005, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-names-for-the-low-us-enlisted-ranks-come-from/334852/19 "2005-12-10T17:45:44Z")
> [@Bookkeeper](#): > > I’ve run across dirty jokes from as far back as the 1850s that use the terms. \ But not from the 1500s, I bet. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2005, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-names-for-the-low-us-enlisted-ranks-come-from/334852/20 "2005-12-10T21:57:28Z")
Thanks, Argo. To use a Navy term: I had a brain fart there. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-names-for-the-low-us-enlisted-ranks-come-from/334852.md?page=2)