# Where did the psycho little kid killer cultural meme come from? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 12, 2009, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-psycho-little-kid-killer-cultural-meme-come-from/517296 "2009-11-12T08:01:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2009, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-psycho-little-kid-killer-cultural-meme-come-from/517296/1 "2009-11-12T08:01:51Z")
So, I was watching the Child’s Play movies the other day. (a boy’s doll comes to life and kills people, but the adults think that the boy is psycotic/sceizophernic, and killed the people, b/c his hallucinations told him to) It got me thinking. Has there ever been a real life case of a little kid who was literally psychotic and killed people? If not, where did this meme come from? ---
**Author:** ![Serenata67](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/serenata67/32/10646_2.png) [@Serenata67](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Serenata67)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2009, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-psycho-little-kid-killer-cultural-meme-come-from/517296/2 "2009-11-12T12:25:58Z")
IANA Modern Literary Historian or Crime Historian, but my guess is that it comes from dolls. You kind of tapped into this in your OP, but the fear of dolls (especially those in the uncanny valley) is real, and children are usually very doll-like. (Soft features, oversized eyes, pale skin, etc.) While there have been horror movies with the dolls attacking (such as your example), it’s less fantastical to have a child do the attacking. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2009, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-psycho-little-kid-killer-cultural-meme-come-from/517296/3 "2009-11-12T12:54:27Z")
It goes back at least as far as **The Bad Seed** in the 1950s, when Hollywood first sensationalized the idea. No idea whether it had any basis in fact. BTW, I loved the trilogy that **Quantum Leap** devoted to this: a little girl’s playmate vanished under suspicious circumstances, and thanks to the Hollywood-hyped meme, she was dogged for years by suspicions of being a “killer chold”. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2009, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-psycho-little-kid-killer-cultural-meme-come-from/517296/4 "2009-11-12T13:02:54Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > “killer chold”. Interrupted by wife too long to edit. “child”. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2009, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-psycho-little-kid-killer-cultural-meme-come-from/517296/5 "2009-11-12T13:08:28Z")
The meme may also just be a standard reversal of common perceptions - kids and dolls are seen as cute and harmless, so the idea of a murderous child/doll has an extra _frisson_. On the subject of children and murder: there’s an Agatha Christie story (can’t remember the title) which has your stereotypical annoying know-it-all girl detective in it, who turns out to be the killer. (Spoilered in case you’re a Christie reader who might not have read that one.) ---
**Author:** ![ToeJam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dfb087/32.png) [@ToeJam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ToeJam)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2009, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-psycho-little-kid-killer-cultural-meme-come-from/517296/6 "2009-11-12T13:14:12Z")
Heh, the spoiler would have been more useful if you knew the title of the book, or given a bit more description of it, so i’d know if I’d read it or not. Children/murder didn’t give me an easy answer. And now I want to read said book. ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2009, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-psycho-little-kid-killer-cultural-meme-come-from/517296/7 "2009-11-12T13:16:06Z")
> [@AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet](#): > > Has there ever been a real life case of a little kid who was literally psychotic and killed people? God yes, any number. The ones that I can immediately track down are the pair that murdered [James Bulger](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_James_Bulger). But there seems to be a case every year where children 10 or younger are convicted of murder. In terms of fiction, the earliest reference I can think of is Cathy in “East of Eden” (can’t remember the name), who fit the archetype perfectly: doll like appearance, totally sociopathic, murdered her own parents etc. So that predates “The Bad Seed” by a few years at least. > [@](#): > > If not, where did this meme come from? Could be a lot of things. Personally i think a lot of it stems form the fact that \*all \*children really are monsters, and they often really do horrible things to others. And I do mean all children. They just lack the empathy and social conditioning that adults have. Their lack of strength makes them relatively harmless most of the time, but children do seriously injure other children all the time, in addition to murdering pets, burning down houses and so forth. These aren’t psychotic children, they are perfectly normal, they just haven’t learned any better yet. So it’s hardly surprising that adults question what evil lurks in their hearts, and from there it’s a short leap to the horror story monster. ---
**Author:** ![Damfino](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Damfino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damfino)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2009, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-psycho-little-kid-killer-cultural-meme-come-from/517296/8 "2009-11-12T13:28:42Z")
> [@ToeJam](#): > > Heh, the spoiler would have been more useful if you knew the title of the book, or given a bit more description of it, so i’d know if I’d read it or not. Children/murder didn’t give me an easy answer. And now I want to read said book. It’s about the murder of the wealthy patriarch of a family by poisoning. He has a couple of generations of descendants staying in the same big, rambling house. They are mostly suspects, all having varying degrees of benefit in his death. Other deaths occur as the search for the murderer develops. The book is Crooked House. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2009, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-psycho-little-kid-killer-cultural-meme-come-from/517296/9 "2009-11-12T13:31:24Z")
> [@ToeJam](#): > > Heh, the spoiler would have been more useful if you knew the title of the book, or given a bit more description of it, so i’d know if I’d read it or not. Children/murder didn’t give me an easy answer. And now I want to read said book. I know, I know… 😛 On further investigation I might be thinking of **Crooked House** , but I’d have to flip through the book to be sure. _ETA: aaaaaand **Damfino** ’s found it first. Hmph._ _ETAA: that book was published in 1949, in case you’re interested._ ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2009, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-psycho-little-kid-killer-cultural-meme-come-from/517296/10 "2009-11-12T13:42:49Z")
In the Agatha Christie story, how old was the child?’ “Girl Detective” makes me think “Nancy Drew”, and hence teenager, which isn’t really what the OP wanted. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2009, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-psycho-little-kid-killer-cultural-meme-come-from/517296/11 "2009-11-12T14:20:53Z")
According to wiki, she was twelve. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Great\_Philosopher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3ec8ea/32.png) [@The\_Great\_Philosopher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Great_Philosopher)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2009, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-psycho-little-kid-killer-cultural-meme-come-from/517296/12 "2009-11-12T14:33:08Z")
I thought it was popularized as a concept by the Exorcist, the film (supposedly the book was based on a real exorcism from a child in 1949). ---
**Author:** ![valleyofthedolls](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a4c791/32.png) [@valleyofthedolls](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/valleyofthedolls)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2009, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-psycho-little-kid-killer-cultural-meme-come-from/517296/13 "2009-11-12T16:33:38Z")
> [@AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet](#): > > So, I was watching the Child’s Play movies the other day. (a boy’s doll comes to life and kills people, but the adults think that the boy is psycotic/sceizophernic, and killed the people, b/c his hallucinations told him to) It got me thinking. > Has there ever been a real life case of a little kid who was literally psychotic and killed people? If not, where did this meme come from? There’s Mary Bell. [http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious\_murders/famous/bell/20.html](http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/famous/bell/20.html) ---
**Author:** ![valleyofthedolls](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a4c791/32.png) [@valleyofthedolls](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/valleyofthedolls)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2009, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-psycho-little-kid-killer-cultural-meme-come-from/517296/14 "2009-11-12T16:38:00Z")
> [@The\_Great\_Philosopher](#): > > I thought it was popularized as a concept by the Exorcist, the film (supposedly the book was based on a real exorcism from a child in 1949). This is going OT but if you’re interested in the real case (hint: none of it’s true) behind the Exorcist, you should check out this article: > **[Part I - The Haunted Boy: the Inspiration for the Exorcist](http://www.strangemag.com/exorcistpage1.html)** > > The Haunted Boy: the Facts Behind > the Story that Inspired the Exorcist It’s a fairly long read but worth it and a great example of real journalism as opposed to the sensationalism that sells newspapers. ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2009, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-psycho-little-kid-killer-cultural-meme-come-from/517296/15 "2009-11-12T16:38:25Z")
> [@The\_Great\_Philosopher](#): > > I thought it was popularized as a concept by the Exorcist, the film (supposedly the book was based on a real exorcism from a child in 1949). Which child killed people in “The Exorcist”? ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2009, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-psycho-little-kid-killer-cultural-meme-come-from/517296/16 "2009-11-12T17:02:45Z")
It happens. We’ve had two juveniles commit murder in our smallish town just in the last year or so. One was a 15 year old who killed a homeless man by kicking him and bashing his head in with a cinder block. He was certified to stand trial as an adult, and when the judge announced that the jury had sentenced him to life in prison, he rolled his eyes. The other one was worse, if you can believe it: a 13 year old who stabbed his own 4 year old sister to death. The forensic testimony was that he went about the stabbing very slowly, so as to enjoy it as long as possible. The three psychiatrists who evaluated him all concluded that he was a complete psychopath, a young Ted Bundy in the making. Scary. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Great\_Philosopher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3ec8ea/32.png) [@The\_Great\_Philosopher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Great_Philosopher)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2009, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-psycho-little-kid-killer-cultural-meme-come-from/517296/17 "2009-11-12T17:09:22Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > Which child killed people in “The Exorcist”? I can’t really remember the film but I thought Regan killed her babysitter at one point? Either way the Exorcist definitely featured a psychotic, doll-like little kid who carried out violent acts, and I think that’s where that modern ‘meme’ was really popularized. I think it’s nit-picking to argue otherwise just because the kid technically didn’t kill anyone in the film. ---
**Author:** ![Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swallowed_My_Cellphone)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2009, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-psycho-little-kid-killer-cultural-meme-come-from/517296/18 "2009-11-12T17:37:51Z")
> [@The\_Great\_Philosopher](#): > > I can’t really remember the film but I thought Regan killed her babysitter at one point? Either way the Exorcist definitely featured a psychotic, doll-like little kid who carried out violent acts, and I think that’s where that modern ‘meme’ was really popularized. I think it’s nit-picking to argue otherwise just because the kid technically didn’t kill anyone in the film. Does _The Omen_ pre-date _The Exorcist_? I thought Damien was a huge cliche. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2009, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-psycho-little-kid-killer-cultural-meme-come-from/517296/19 "2009-11-12T17:37:56Z")
[Category:Murder committed by minors](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Murder_committed_by_minors) ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2009, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-psycho-little-kid-killer-cultural-meme-come-from/517296/20 "2009-11-12T17:43:40Z")
_Dead Again_ (with Kenneth Branagh and Emma Thompson) has a child killer. It’s a pretty cool movie. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-psycho-little-kid-killer-cultural-meme-come-from/517296.md?page=2)