# Where did the "restricted language in the Pit" rules come from? **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [June 6, 2012, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-restricted-language-in-the-pit-rules-come-from/624246 "2012-06-06T05:24:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-restricted-language-in-the-pit-rules-come-from/624246/41 "2012-06-07T20:10:13Z")
[Bluenose](http://www.thefreedictionary.com/bluenosed): a puritanical person. _Drunky Smurf, that bluenose, petitioned for Youporn to be shut down._ ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-restricted-language-in-the-pit-rules-come-from/624246/42 "2012-06-07T21:06:00Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#): > > I don’t care what the penalties are. The point is that it’s a stupid rule. “Oh, don’t worry, it’s really not enforced very strenuously” does not make it a better rule. It is just a stupid rule that is poorly enforced. OK. > [@](#): > > The problem is, “I want to be able to use the language of my choice in the Pit,” which we cannot currently do under the current rules. Not to be pedantic, but never, in the history of this message board, has anyone been able to use the language of their choice in the Pit. Death threats, threats of legal action against Creative Loafing, threats against staff, posting of IRL information, posting copyrighted material, posting exploits and viruses and other hacking information, posting links to MP3 repositories, etc. have been grounds for warnings or bannings. In the Pit. So given that speech has _never_ been completely free in the Pit, the argument comes across as saying “we want to call people cunts.” > [@](#): > > And in my experience, nearly 100% of the time that this rule is broken in the Pit, a mod comes along shortly to tweet or remind or admonish, which chills the conversation just as effectively as an Official Mod Warning would. So the system works. People don’t get warned and put on double-secret probation, but they change their behavior and cease calling people cunts etc. … not seeing the downside here. ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-restricted-language-in-the-pit-rules-come-from/624246/43 "2012-06-07T21:23:50Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > So given that speech has _never_ been completely free in the Pit, the argument comes across as saying “we want to call people cunts.” > So the system works. People don’t get warned and put on double-secret probation, but they change their behavior and cease calling people cunts etc. … not seeing the downside here. Some people believe that freedom of speech is of value in and of itself. I, for one, recognize that there are always certain limits that are necessary (the classic “_Fire!_ in a crowded theater” example), but I prefer strongly that such limits be as minimal as possible. Now, some people think of freedom of speech only as a legal right, relative to the first amendment. That makes perfect sense, and of course it doesn’t apply here. But I don’t see freedom of speech merely in that way. I see it as an absolute good. A useful analogy might be some people’s feelings about gun rights. There is nothing wrong, legally or morally, with a business forbidding guns on its property. Nevertheless, some people have said here that they prefer not to patronize such businesses, even when they aren’t carrying a weapon, because they believe that there is something inherently good about the ability to carry firearms freely. I won’t choose not to patronize a messageboard just because no one is allowed to call someone a cunt, nor do I personally want to call someone a cunt. But I believe that the freedom to do so is an absolute good, even if–like the freedom to carry a gun into a bar or a daycare–it’s rarely a good idea to actually use it. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-restricted-language-in-the-pit-rules-come-from/624246/44 "2012-06-07T21:27:11Z")
It’s also a bad idea to make up rules in response to one incident involving people you personally feel obliged to protect. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-restricted-language-in-the-pit-rules-come-from/624246/45 "2012-06-07T21:29:51Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > For _years_ people have acted like this is THE WORST TRAGEDY EVER! ED SUX! DOWN WITH EVUL ED! Remember the carrying on? Multiple threads of hundreds of posts? Is it not still going on to some extent? Is it? When the rule was first instituted (before I was a mod) I made a prediction that we’d be having this conversation pretty much constantly in ATMB. To the best of my recollection (and without doing a search) this is the first thread I’ve seen since then questioning the basic existence of the rule. There’ve been a few questioning a particular application (or lack thereof) of the rule, but after the original furor, it’s been pretty much a non-issue. > [@](#): > > So the system works. People don’t get warned and put on double-secret probation, but they change their behavior and cease calling people cunts etc. … not seeing the downside here. No downside? Do you have _any idea_ how many minutes a week I have to spend writing mod notes to people for swearing in the Pit? Almost _five_, probably! ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-restricted-language-in-the-pit-rules-come-from/624246/46 "2012-06-07T21:36:13Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > It’s also a bad idea to make up rules in response to one incident involving people you personally feel obliged to protect. Yeah, there’s that too. For years, there was no list of bad words, and we got along just fine. Then one person gets called something, and all of a sudden the rules change because that person happens to be an administrator. And the rules that change don’t do anything to actually change the tone of the Pit (or the rest of the board), nor do they do anything to protect anyone’s feelings or eliminate sexist insults or anything else. It’s a completely arbitrary response to one, single incident. It makes as much sense as banning a certain font because someone used it when posting an insult. It bans the form, not the content. I would also be offended by that rule, even though I don’t like nonstandard fonts. I’d even be offended if it was comic sans that got banned, because it would still be a stupid rule. And I’m far less likely to want to use comic sans than to call someone a cunt. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-restricted-language-in-the-pit-rules-come-from/624246/47 "2012-06-07T21:48:43Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Is it? In terms of occasional snipes and grousing, not major uproar. And it’s an occasional topic off-board. Even people on my own message board have complained about it not too long ago. > [@](#): > > No downside? Do you have _any idea_ how many minutes a week I have to spend writing mod notes to people for swearing in the Pit? Almost _five_, probably! Perhaps you should have a special flowered coffee mug as a Mod gift. (I never received a coffee mug myself, but then I’m not a Moderator, only Cecil’s lowly assistant Una.) ---
**Author:** ![bucketybuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@bucketybuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bucketybuck)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-restricted-language-in-the-pit-rules-come-from/624246/48 "2012-06-07T21:58:38Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > For _years_ people have acted like this is THE WORST TRAGEDY EVER! ED SUX! DOWN WITH EVUL ED! Remember the carrying on? Multiple threads of hundreds of posts? Is it not still going on to some extent? > > And the reality of it is: > > - The rule has inconsequential impacts. > - The penalties for transgression are almost always a _reminder_ of the rule. They could chop peoples heads off just for thinking the word cunt. Or they could give you a million pounds every time you say the word cunt. Or they could do any of the million possibilities in between, including their silly little mod notes, (“this is not a warning herp derp”) Doesn’t matter because all that doesn’t matter. Its still a retarded rule. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-restricted-language-in-the-pit-rules-come-from/624246/49 "2012-06-07T22:16:44Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > So the system works. People don’t get warned and put on double-secret probation, but they change their behavior and cease calling people cunts etc. … not seeing the downside here. Wrong–a rule that’s not enforced is a bad thing, not something that “works”. I oblige in the Pit because I like the mods there. Were the mods different people, I’d happily be using the word “Cunt” knowing that I’d only get a mod-note unless I put it multiple times in each post. Don’t you see that a stupid, toothless rule, handed down by a clueless outsider with no notion of board culture or the reasons for the Pit\*, created to only protect an incompetent admin from the natural results of her idiocy and malfeasance isn’t a good thing? No, it’s not the end of the world, but it’s a constant little annoyance. And about a year ago, I did a search and the use of the word “Cunt” had increased something like three times since the idiotic rule was instituted. If the goal of the rule was to dissuade people from saying “cunt”, it’s a miserable, abject failure as it’s dramatically increased the usage. \*See his first 7 or so bumbling attempts to “fix” the non-problem (including the one where he decided that the Pit wasn’t about flaming other posters"–which should show you how little he understands the point of the Pit) before he ended up with the “naughty words” list. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-restricted-language-in-the-pit-rules-come-from/624246/50 "2012-06-07T22:27:06Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > The party line has always reminded me of some of the stupid rules that pop up at work. I’m not dumb. Just because I can figure out a work around does not make the rule less retarded. It is not a board killing rule. I can still post basically what I want. It doesn’t make the rule less retarded. Hear hear. Besides, the rules currently let me call someone a “a cum-belching gutter twat”, “a diseased cooze”, "a syphilitic pus-encrusted donkey penis"and say that "\< Poster\> is an uncle-fucker who I hope gets cancer of the ass and lives a long, unfulfilled, pain-filled life doing nothing but giving blowjobs to scrofulous lepers for crack "…and all that would be just fine by current rules. But “cunt” and “fuck you” are forbidden? Someone in charge needs to read Cecil’s column on “The exception that proves the rule” and think about what that means with a “naughty words” list. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-restricted-language-in-the-pit-rules-come-from/624246/51 "2012-06-07T23:05:09Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > Wrong–a rule that’s not enforced is a bad thing, not something that “works”. I oblige in the Pit because I like the mods there. Were the mods different people, I’d happily be using the word “Cunt” knowing that I’d only get a mod-note unless I put it multiple times in each post. It is enforced, it just has a lot of leeway. I have no doubt if someone kept ignoring Moderator instructions they would be warned and then eventually banned. And “enforcement” doesn’t mean the only options are warning or banning. (Most) Dopers apparently are sharp enough and want to obey the rules enough that they don’t **need** any more than a gentle admonition. In other words, Dopers rose to the occasion. > [@](#): > > Don’t you see that a stupid, toothless rule, handed down by a clueless outsider with no notion of board culture or the reasons for the Pit\*, created to only protect an incompetent admin from the natural results of her idiocy and malfeasance isn’t a good thing? Disagreeing that it’s toothless as per above. I know quite a bit more behind the root cause of the whole thing than most people do, and I can’t discuss it. So no comment either way. > [@](#): > > And about a year ago, I did a search and the use of the word “Cunt” had increased something like three times since the idiotic rule was instituted. If the goal of the rule was to dissuade people from saying “cunt”, it’s a miserable, abject failure as it’s dramatically increased the usage. What’s the causality? People bitching about how they can’t say it and thus bringing up the word, or are you claiming the mere existence of the rule encourages people to say it? ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-restricted-language-in-the-pit-rules-come-from/624246/52 "2012-06-07T23:10:38Z")
Don’t know the causality, but there’s a clear, obvious and immediate jump from the rule to the increase in usage. It could very easily be people bitching about it. But the fact it, banning the word has cause an increase in the appearance of the word on the board. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-restricted-language-in-the-pit-rules-come-from/624246/53 "2012-06-07T23:13:47Z")
I posted in here _primarily_ to post that the perception that all Cecil does is insult and demean people, and by implication that he does it as harshly as Dopers do to each other, is entirely incorrect. I can not afford to get stressed out getting into another snakepit thread of “Ed is stupid and so are his rules.” All else aside I have to go and skewer some people with a sword for a few hours. If anyone wants to debate the tone of the column I’ll post further, otherwise I really need to bow out and let any rebuttals on the rules stand. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-restricted-language-in-the-pit-rules-come-from/624246/54 "2012-06-07T23:19:19Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > So the system works. People don’t get warned and put on double-secret probation, but they change their behavior and cease calling people cunts etc. … not seeing the downside here. I feel you are being obtuse on purpose. My point, which has remained the same since my first post in this thread, is that the rule is a stupid rule. How much it is enforced, whether it is enforced, the manner of its enforcement, the effectiveness of its “system,” etc., is completely irrelevant to me. Whether it is a stupid rule that is well-enforced or poorly enforced, it remains a stupid rule, and one that IMO diminishes my enjoyment of the SDMB somewhat. I am not losing sleep over this, it is not ruining my life, I am obviously still around and posting. I just think it is an extremely stupid rule and does not reflect well on the administrative staff that implemented it. > [@Una Persson](#): > > All else aside I have to go and skewer some people with a sword for a few hours. If anyone wants to debate the tone of the column I’ll post further, otherwise I really need to bow out and let any rebuttals on the rules stand. OK, have fun. Nobody asked for your participation in this thread in the first place so I’m not sure why you apparently feel obligated to explain why you won’t be participating further. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-restricted-language-in-the-pit-rules-come-from/624246/55 "2012-06-07T23:36:29Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#): > > I feel you are being obtuse on purpose. That’s the problem with feelings. They often are not based on fact. > [@](#): > > Nobody asked for your participation in this thread in the first place so I’m not sure why you apparently feel obligated to explain why you won’t be participating further. I thought it was polite to tell people who I like and respect, such as **Fenris** , why I wouldn’t be replying to them on that subject. Since this apparently bothers you enough you felt you had to get a little jab in…(shrug). ---
**Author:** ![expectopatronum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/expectopatronum/32/173_2.png) [@expectopatronum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/expectopatronum)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-restricted-language-in-the-pit-rules-come-from/624246/56 "2012-06-07T23:53:33Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > Besides, the rules currently let me call someone a “a cum-belching gutter twat”, “a diseased cooze”, "a syphilitic pus-encrusted donkey penis"and say that "\< Poster\> is an uncle-fucker who I hope gets cancer of the ass and lives a long, unfulfilled, pain-filled life doing nothing but giving blowjobs to scrofulous lepers for crack "…and all that would be just fine by current rules. But “cunt” and “fuck you” are forbidden? not to mention that this board has had at least [one genuine](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11484815&postcount=51) [pedophile](http://boardstest.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=533989) who was allowed to defend his desire to fuck children under 10, [and elsewhere we have graphic descriptions of young boys being anally raped.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=630580) it’s like that line from south park: bigger, longer and uncut: “horrific, deplorable violence is OK as long as no one says any naughty words!” ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-restricted-language-in-the-pit-rules-come-from/624246/57 "2012-06-07T23:58:21Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#): > > OK, have fun. Nobody asked for your participation in this thread in the first place so I’m not sure why you apparently feel obligated to explain why you won’t be participating further. Disagree-when someone is engaged in a debate, I always thought it was nice to explain why you’re bowing out, if you leave in the middle. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2012, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-restricted-language-in-the-pit-rules-come-from/624246/58 "2012-06-08T00:05:25Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > I thought it was polite to tell people who I like and respect, such as **Fenris** , why I wouldn’t be replying to them on that subject. Since this apparently bothers you enough you felt you had to get a little jab in…(shrug). Fair enough. ---
**Author:** ![David42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f9b8f/32.png) [@David42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David42)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2012, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-restricted-language-in-the-pit-rules-come-from/624246/59 "2012-06-08T05:37:34Z")
Umm, maybe I just messed up. I made a rant at another poster who started a pit thread on me implying i’m a child molestor. This was based on a comment I made in Great Debates about “It is ludicrous that in some jurisdictions you can have sex with a girl as young as fourteen and most states sixteen but it’s criminal if you take a picture of her a day younger than eighteen.” Of course this is commentary concerns the idea that actual sex ought to be taken more seriously than a photograph, but some people just aren’t very bright I guess. Anyways, it pissed me off so bad and I gave the poster a good cussing out including apparently prohibited words like “motherfucker” etc. So where are these rules about the pit? I swear I thought you could do exactly that, cuss someone out. I hope I don’t catch much flak over it, it was my first time in the pit, and with the way the rules are in Great Debates, I thought the pit was exactly for that. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2012, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-restricted-language-in-the-pit-rules-come-from/624246/60 "2012-06-08T05:49:43Z")
[Restricted Language in the Pit.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=508858) Don’t worry, it’s not generally a banning offense. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-restricted-language-in-the-pit-rules-come-from/624246.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-restricted-language-in-the-pit-rules-come-from/624246.md?page=4)