# Where did the term "John Company" come from? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 22, 2002, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-term-john-company-come-from/129069 "2002-09-22T02:07:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![tarragon918](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d26b3c/32.png) [@tarragon918](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tarragon918)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2002, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-term-john-company-come-from/129069/1 "2002-09-22T02:07:18Z")
And why was it used to describe the British Empire’s “soldiers” around the world? Actually, I’m not sure it was really the term for the soldiers but rather the businesses that the Empire conducted throughout the world…or is that an incorrect perception? Maybe this is just a nuance of British terminolgy that I don’t get! What brought this question to mind is a fictional book I’m reading in which John Company is mentioned–this is back as early as the late 17th century. I know it’s a factual mention, though. thanks in advance! ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2002, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-term-john-company-come-from/129069/2 "2002-09-22T02:47:17Z")
“John Company” did not refer to the soldiers. It was the nickname for the British East India Company. The soldiers went along for the ride. The EIC was what got Britain involved in India bigtime (also Aden, which was under the same administration as India). Once the Company, whose shareholders included the top dogs in the British aristocracy, got deeply involved, the British military had to go along to fight for the Company’s interests. After the so-called Black Hole of Calcutta (I have heard that it was a trumped-up incident, used as a pretext for a military operation, the 18th century’s Gulf of Tonkin), the actual military colonization of Bengal began in earnest. The Brits then had an extra motivation to build up colonization in India after losing the American colonies. 1757-1857, John Company was in the weird position of being a business enterprise that functioned as a government. After the events of 1857 (which the British called the Sepoy Mutiny, but the Indians themselves know as the First Struggle for Independence), the Crown stepped in, did away with John Company, and ruled India directly. Why did they nickname it “John”? You mean, why not “Melvin”? How did “John Bull” get his name? John being a very common name, it’s the sort of name people used to nickname personifications, I guess. What about John Doe, Johnny-come-lately, Johnny-jump-up, Johnny-on-th-spot? Jack is another name like that, much more widely used. Jack Tar, Jack in the Box, Jack in the Pulpit, Jack Sprat, Jack Frost. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2002, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-term-john-company-come-from/129069/3 "2002-09-22T03:56:44Z")
From _Brewer’s Dictionary of Phrase and Fable_ (centenary edition, 1981): > [@](#): > > **John Company.** The old Honourable East India Company. It is said that “John” is a perversion of “Hon”; but it is possibe that “John Company” is allied to the familiar “John Bull.” The Company was founded in 1600 and finally abolished in 1858. Note that the John Company had its own army up until the days of the Mutiny. In the colonial reorganisation which followed, the British government established the Indian Army from the John Co. army. The Indian Army was separate from the British Army, and was not under the direct control of Parliament, being under the control of the colonial Government of India. ---
**Author:** ![tarragon918](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d26b3c/32.png) [@tarragon918](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tarragon918)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2002, 10:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-term-john-company-come-from/129069/4 "2002-09-22T10:25:33Z")
Very interesting answers! I hadn’t thought of looking it up in a Dictionary, and must admit to being unfamiliar with Brewer’s Dictionary of Phrases, Northern Piper, so thanks for introducing me to it. 🙂 thanks again! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![ageless6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de053/32.png) [@ageless6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ageless6)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2002, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-term-john-company-come-from/129069/5 "2002-09-22T16:24:15Z")
tarragon918: Shame on you! You shouldn’t be reading fictional books in the first place. Try to stick with real books. Fictional books are just empty calories, if you ask me. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2002, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-term-john-company-come-from/129069/6 "2002-09-22T16:37:52Z")
You’re welcome, **tarragon918**. _Brewer’s_ is a fun read, with wealth of info, mainly from a British perspective but with some American and Commonwealth phrases as well. It’s available online in a couple of places: [http://www.bibliomania.com/2/3/255/frameset.html](http://www.bibliomania.com/2/3/255/frameset.html) [http://www.bartleby.com/81/](http://www.bartleby.com/81/) Have fun! ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2002, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-term-john-company-come-from/129069/7 "2002-09-22T16:40:47Z")
From the **OED** > [@](#): > > [1785 tr. Sparrmann’s Voy. Cape G. Hope, etc. x. II. 21 The ignorant Hottentots and Indians not having been able to form any idea of the Dutch East-India Company,…the Dutch from the very beginning in India, politically gave out the company for one individual powerful prince, by the christian name of Jan or John… On this account I ordered my interpreter to say farther, that we were the children of Jan Company, who had sent us out to view this country.] Shades of the “Yankee” “Jan Cheese” controversy. ---
**Author:** ![Milton\_De\_La\_Warre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e480ec/32.png) [@Milton\_De\_La\_Warre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Milton_De_La_Warre)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2002, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-term-john-company-come-from/129069/8 "2002-09-23T14:58:37Z")
The “Honorable” EIC? How and when did it get the “Honorable” part? ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2002, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-did-the-term-john-company-come-from/129069/9 "2002-09-25T05:12:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by samclem \* > \*\*From the **OED** > > > [@](#): > > > > [1785 tr. Sparrmann’s Voy. Cape G. Hope, etc. x. II. 21 The ignorant Hottentots and Indians not having been able to form any idea of the Dutch East-India Company,…the Dutch from the very beginning in India, politically gave out the company for one individual powerful prince, by the christian name of Jan or John… On this account I ordered my interpreter to say farther, that we were the children of Jan Company, who had sent us out to view this country.] > > Shades of the “Yankee” “Jan Cheese” controversy. \*\* Shades of **John Frum** [SIZE=3, of “Cargo Cult” fame.[/SIZE] These examples just go further to show that Mr. John Personification and his brother Jack definitely rule above all other names.