# Where do all these pop stars come from? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 15, 2010, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-all-these-pop-stars-come-from/564200 "2010-12-15T04:23:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2010, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-all-these-pop-stars-come-from/564200/21 "2010-12-16T01:53:37Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > He had this enormous, cult following of teenage girls, earned entirely on his own It’s debatable whether he earned that following with his talent or just lucked into it with his hair. ---
**Author:** ![Prelude\_to\_Fascination](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a183cd/32.png) [@Prelude\_to\_Fascination](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prelude_to_Fascination)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2010, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-all-these-pop-stars-come-from/564200/22 "2010-12-16T02:31:57Z")
> [@Jim\_s\_Son](#): > > If you are signed to a major label like Capitol, as Perry is, you have the support of a major label behind you. It’s a lot easier than doing it by yourself. Nothing against Perry, she is reasonably talented, but musicians seldom succeed without a lot of corporate help. > As far as the teenyboppers, they also spent a lot of time as children honing their skills, such as it is. [hijack]I agree with your point, but I have to wonder about all those who say that record companies are all but dead and musicians won’t need them, what with YouTube, et al. I think it was Radiohead that put out an album sans record company, and online pundits were saying that was going to be the wave of the future. It’ll be interesting to see which direction it’ll go. I’m betting on some sort of corporate backing continuing, even if the current companies are no longer involved. The money for studio time (or building one’s own studio), marketing, touring, etc. has to come from somewhere. [hijack] Along with the point of the thread, pop stars today are no different than the pop stars of 20, 30, 40 years ago. I remember my sister reading _16_ magazine, when Bobby Sherman and David Cassidy were all the rage. Even if some said they had no real talent, they certainly did, but much of it was marketing and PR. Same with others of the time, like The Monkees (“Prefab Four”?). ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2010, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-all-these-pop-stars-come-from/564200/23 "2010-12-16T02:44:57Z")
Thirty years ago the BBC series _The Big Time_ took a look at a young woman trying to land a record contract. The show chronicled her makeover and all the imaging that went into becoming a pop star. As a result, Sheena Easton got the reputation of being manufactured. What the show didn’t get into was her scholarship to the Royal Scottish Academy of Music and Drama and her years of singing in clubs. People also forgot the Easton was simply an example of what happened to every singer that gets signed, and that her experience was actually typical. Of course, Sheena Easton is over 50 now, and singing on the casino circuit, which I’d guess Katy Perry will be in 30 years. ---
**Author:** ![jharvey963](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/54ee81/32.png) [@jharvey963](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jharvey963)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2010, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-all-these-pop-stars-come-from/564200/24 "2010-12-17T18:12:30Z")
It’s tempting to think of all of these young pop stars as manufactured. I’m guilty of this myself. I had never really listened to Christina Aguilera. She was always “just another pop star” to me. Then I saw the movie Burlesque… HOLY C\*\*P she’s talented! Her voice is amazing, and all in a little wisp of a body. (At least she looked that way standing next to Cher, who appeared to be a head taller than her.) So I guess my present thinking is, packaging and hype are part of it, but in general you’ve got to have the talent to back it up. J. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2010, 10:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-all-these-pop-stars-come-from/564200/25 "2010-12-18T10:14:38Z")
Christina Aguilera is an excellent example of a manufactured pop star. Not only did she not write (or have any input on) her breakout hit Genie in a Bottle, she actively disliked the song. Once she broke out with it she started taking more control, and of course her pipes blow the doors off all her contemporaries, but she started out by being handed a successful career. By contrast, Katy Perry worked her ass off to start her own career with her own music. EDIT: As to your last point, Britney Spears is a case study showing that you don’t have to have the talent to back it up. She got the same pre-packaged career to start with as Aguilera, and despite having almost no talent as a singer or songwriter managed to parlay that into mega-stardom. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2010, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-all-these-pop-stars-come-from/564200/26 "2010-12-19T01:13:05Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > EDIT: As to your last point, Britney Spears is a case study showing that you don’t have to have the talent to back it up. She got the same pre-packaged career to start with as Aguilera, and despite having almost no talent as a singer or songwriter managed to parlay that into mega-stardom. It’s important to remember that “pop star” isn’t just singing ability, but also dancing. While Britney certainly is no where the same universe as Christina’s singing abilities, Britney could definitely dance circles around most of her competition. Well, not so much any more, but at her prime? Hell yeah. ---
**Author:** ![I-VI-ii-V](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c89c15/32.png) [@I-VI-ii-V](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I-VI-ii-V)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2010, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-all-these-pop-stars-come-from/564200/27 "2010-12-19T05:27:24Z")
> [@Krokodil](#): > > We like to pretend that the Beatles got by on merit alone, but before Brian Epstein got hold of them, they kinda sucked. Clearly you are not familiar with the popularity, albeit locally, that the Beatles had before being represented by Brian Epstein. They were the best band in Liverpool and would have never attracted Epstein’s attention if “they kinda sucked”. Yes, they were just a tight rock band not yet playing the groundbreaking music they would later create, but they certainly did not suck. Don’t get me wrong, the Beatles definitely had a marketing machine behind them, but they had legitimate talent. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2010, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-all-these-pop-stars-come-from/564200/28 "2010-12-19T15:57:59Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > Katy Perry came up through the ranks “honestly,” similar to Jewel or Alanis Morisette. Instead of yodelling and folk music, Perry happens to write pop songs. Her music is her own, not produced by committee. Katy Perry’s biggest hit, _California Gurls_ Written by: Katy Perry, Bonnie McKee, Calvin Broadus, Max Martin, Lukasz “Dr. Luke” Gottwald Produced by: Max Martin, Dr. Luke, Benny Blanco Her next biggest hit, _Teenage Dream_ Written by: Bonnie McKee, Benjamin Levin, Max Martin, Lukasz Gottwald Produced by: Max Martin, Dr. Luke, Benny Blanco Pretty face and tight body by: Katy Perry And there’s one credit in there that I ain’t buyin’. Take a wild guess which one. (I underlined it for you in case you have any trouble). ---
**Author:** ![multimediac17](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/839c29/32.png) [@multimediac17](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/multimediac17)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2010, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-all-these-pop-stars-come-from/564200/29 "2010-12-19T16:07:26Z")
Because how on earth could a woman who sings pop music with big breasts ever manage to help write a song? ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2010, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-all-these-pop-stars-come-from/564200/30 "2010-12-19T16:34:08Z")
> [@multimediac17](#): > > Because how on earth could a woman who sings pop music with big breasts ever manage to help write a song? Yes, that’s **exactly** what I was sayin’. Glad someone got my hidden message. ---
**Author:** ![multimediac17](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/839c29/32.png) [@multimediac17](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/multimediac17)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2010, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-all-these-pop-stars-come-from/564200/31 "2010-12-19T16:42:00Z")
What reason do you have to “not buy” Katy Perry’s credit on that song? ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2010, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-all-these-pop-stars-come-from/564200/32 "2010-12-19T16:53:39Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > And there’s one credit in there that I ain’t buyin’. Take a wild guess which one. (I underlined it for you in case you have any trouble). She’s listed as a songwriter (sometimes the solo songwriter) on every one of her songs. I may not like her music, but there’s no proof that’s she’s not genuine. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2010, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-all-these-pop-stars-come-from/564200/33 "2010-12-19T16:55:09Z")
Jaded about the music industry from paying attention to it for too many years. And I’ve heard he interviewed and she seems like a bit of an airhead. Edit: This was a response to #31. In response to #32: not Teenage Dream. And I’m pretty sure Milli Vanilli were listed as singers, so I don’t hold recording industry credits up as a beacon of integrity. ---
**Author:** ![multimediac17](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/839c29/32.png) [@multimediac17](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/multimediac17)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2010, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-all-these-pop-stars-come-from/564200/34 "2010-12-19T17:16:39Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > In response to #32: not Teenage Dream. On the Wikipedia page for the parent album it lists her as a writer for ‘Teenage Dream’, yet on the page for the single it doesn’t, so I’m not 100% sure on that one. However if you look at the [background & writing](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teenage_Dream_(Katy_Perry_song)#Background_and_writing) section, it has a series of anecdotes and interview quotes that show Katy was, at the very least, involved in the concept and genesis of the song. And if she isn’t a credited writer on ‘Teenage Dream’, one song written by other people isn’t a big deal when we consider that she was part of the writing team for every other song on both her albums, especially when she is part of a genre where it isn’t considered a serious blow to your image to have your songs written by other people. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2010, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-all-these-pop-stars-come-from/564200/35 "2010-12-19T17:58:17Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > In response to #32: not Teenage Dream. [Allmusic says otherwise.](http://www.allmusic.com/album/teenage-dream-r1834720) ---
**Author:** ![randwill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a3d4f5/32.png) [@randwill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/randwill)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2010, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-all-these-pop-stars-come-from/564200/36 "2010-12-19T17:59:00Z")
Fabian, anyone? ---
**Author:** ![Tangent](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tangent/32/3098_2.png) [@Tangent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tangent)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2010, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-all-these-pop-stars-come-from/564200/37 "2010-12-19T19:20:30Z")
Eh, while I do think writing (or co-writing) your own songs adds a measure of credibility, it certainly isn’t a requirement for someone to become a successful and respected singer, especially in the pop genre. Whitney Houston had a tremendously popular career without writing her own songs. I’m sure she is not an anomoly. George Strait is one of the most popular and well-respected country singers of all time, and he rarely has a writing credit on his songs. Great singers are not necessarily good songwriters, and great songwriters are not necessarily good singers. Do we look down on songwriters who don’t sing their own songs? Whether Katy Perry writes her own songs or is just good at choosing songs to sing (or has producers that are good at choosing for her), doesn’t matter to most of her audience. Her voice in her songs that I’ve heard sounds heavily “produced” to me–lots of echo and reverb and such–so I can’t tell if she’s got the singing talent to sustain a long career. Her appeal beyond the catchy songs seems to be her appearance and her somewhat cheeky personality. Maybe she’ll fade into obscurity, or maybe she’ll be one of those artists who reinvents herself every so often to keep things fresh. She’s already had way more success than most aspiring pop stars, so she’s off to a good start. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2010, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-all-these-pop-stars-come-from/564200/38 "2010-12-20T15:06:27Z")
It directly contradicts the premise of this thread, though: > [@](#): > > I don’t think it’s talent or hard work because a lot of times it seems like their first albums are major hits. I bet it’s major record companies hand picking someone, several talented people putting together their songs for them, and a whole lot of promotion and marketing? Ms Perry’s success is from both talent and hard work, not from being hand-picked by a major record company. Her first major record company shelved her first album, so she had to go back to the drawing board and come up with her own new material to shop around in order to land her second major record company. Basically the exact opposite of the OP’s impression. > [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > It’s important to remember that “pop star” isn’t just singing ability, but also dancing. While Britney certainly is no where the same universe as Christina’s singing abilities, Britney could definitely dance circles around most of her competition. Well, not so much any more, but at her prime? Hell yeah. That is only and very true for pre-fab pop stars, the kind who get hand-picked by a major record company who puts all the talent around them like the OP is talking about. Basically it’s the Greg Brady effect: “He fit the suit.” ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2010, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-all-these-pop-stars-come-from/564200/39 "2010-12-20T15:33:05Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > … but until this thread I have never heard the name Justin Bieber… I am _so_ jealous… ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2010, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-all-these-pop-stars-come-from/564200/40 "2010-12-20T16:59:14Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > That is only and very true for pre-fab pop stars, the kind who get hand-picked by a major record company who puts all the talent around them like the OP is talking about. Basically it’s the Greg Brady effect: “He fit the suit.” Why is that we’re so quick to applaud a good set of pipes (Whitney, Christina, etc.), but also so quick to denounce dancing ability? Well, “pop” dancing, at least-- nobody is popping into threads talking about dancing and calling Fred Astaire a hack. Fact is, Britney in her prime was a truly amazing dancer. Was she a Michael Jackson? No, but she killed it time and time again. Give me the best training in the world for as long as possible and I could never do what she did back in the day. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-all-these-pop-stars-come-from/564200.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-all-these-pop-stars-come-from/564200.md?page=3)