# Where do counties come from? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 25, 2003, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-counties-come-from/164050 "2003-03-25T16:37:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![mikejacobs99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/49beb7/32.png) [@mikejacobs99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikejacobs99)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2003, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-counties-come-from/164050/1 "2003-03-25T16:37:38Z")
a few years ago, while driving through North Carolina along I95 returning from vacation, I saw a sign, “Welcome to \ County, est. 1859\” this lead me to thinking: 1859(or whatever it was) is a good bit after the state/colony was settled, so what was this area before it became Whatever County? were there counties when the orginial american states were just colonies? was the land part of the state/colony, by with no further local control until the county was established? or did they split off of larger counties? (different vacation, I remember it being mentioned that Thomas Jefferson was a leader in a movement to split the county in which Montecello now resides apart from a larger one.) any thoughts? US history majors, perhaps? ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2003, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-counties-come-from/164050/2 "2003-03-25T16:51:02Z")
Chances are it was part of one of its neighboring counties and split off. I’ll do some research, for I know of at least one actual example of this in North Carolina. ---
**Author:** ![aahala](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a88e4f/32.png) [@aahala](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aahala)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2003, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-counties-come-from/164050/3 "2003-03-25T16:55:14Z")
Here’s a link that gives a pictorial account: > **[US Map Collection - Old Historical U.S. and State Maps](https://mapgeeks.org/us/)** > > Discover the past of the United States through vintage maps in our online collection of old historical maps that span over 300 years of growth. View US Maps such as historical country and state boundaries changes as well as old vintage maps for all... Many of the counties outside the original thirteen states were earlier a larger one. Most of the county formation in the US was before 1900. There have been very few counties formed the last several decades. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2003, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-counties-come-from/164050/4 "2003-03-25T16:56:15Z")
Here’s a page that lists current NC counties, what year they were founded, and their “parent” county, or the county they were created out of. I was particularly amused to learn that “world-class” Mecklenburg County used to be part of hick Anson County. 🙂 [http://statelibrary.dcr.state.nc.us/iss/gr/counties.htm](http://statelibrary.dcr.state.nc.us/iss/gr/counties.htm) Hope this helps. ---
**Author:** ![kniz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c37758/32.png) [@kniz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kniz)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2003, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-counties-come-from/164050/5 "2003-03-25T16:56:30Z")
Here is a [**site**](http://www.lonelyplanet.com/mapshells/middle_east/kuwait/kuwait.htm) that tells the history of all the counties in North Carolina. From reading just a couple, the common theme seems to be that the counties were formed from other counties. Maybe there were only a couple of counties to begin with and then the rest split off from those. [sup]It just so happened that I found this site from North Carolina, but for some reason I felt that NC was the state mentioned in the OP[/sup] ---
**Author:** ![Mojo\_the\_Monkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eada6e/32.png) [@Mojo\_the\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mojo_the_Monkey)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2003, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-counties-come-from/164050/6 "2003-03-25T16:58:30Z")
All of Maine was originally one county: York County. (Of course, this was when Maine was still a part of Massachussets.) The various other counties were slowly partitioned off as the population grew. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2003, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-counties-come-from/164050/7 "2003-03-25T16:59:50Z")
I’m getting a map of Kuwait from **kniz** ’s link. ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2003, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-counties-come-from/164050/8 "2003-03-25T17:21:25Z")
In Pennsylvania as late as the mid-19th century, there were several areas that didn’t belong to any county. As some of the more remote areas began to be settled, and there were large enough settlements to serve as the “county seat”–the town or city with the courthouse, jail, etc.–the PA Legislature incorporated new counties. Like in NC, some PA counties were created by breaking parts off of other counties. Clinton County (Lock Haven) was created from Lycoming County (Williamsport), for example. ---
**Author:** ![brianmelendez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/65b543/32.png) [@brianmelendez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brianmelendez)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2003, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-counties-come-from/164050/9 "2003-03-25T17:23:38Z")
Broomfield County, Colorado, was established pursuant to a statewide referendum in November 1998 amending the Colorado constitution. The new county was organized by legislation effective November 2001. See [http://www.broomfieldenterprise.com](http://www.broomfieldenterprise.com)…c/timeline.html. Most states can establish a new county by law but Colorado’s process is evidently more cumbersome. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2003, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-counties-come-from/164050/10 "2003-03-25T19:19:59Z")
WAG–In England, counties were areas run by a Count. The practise carried over. Today, we retain the old name because it ain’t worth changin’. ---
**Author:** ![dwc1970](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a183cd/32.png) [@dwc1970](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dwc1970)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2003, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-counties-come-from/164050/11 "2003-03-25T20:23:06Z")
Slight hijack: Why does Louisiana refer to its “counties” as parishes? Do any other states use a term other than “county?” ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2003, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-counties-come-from/164050/12 "2003-03-25T20:28:58Z")
During the Nineteenth Century, county boundaries usually doubled as legislative and Congressional district boundaries. A typical state Constitution would grant every county at least one seat in the state House, with extra seats assigned to urban counties, and cluster nearby counties into groups to create state Senate districts. Federal House districts also usually followed county lines, because the technology for more accurate mapping didn’t exist. This left something of an imperative to create new counties as settlement patterns changed. Then, too, primitive transportation and communication meant that people didn’t want to be too far from their county seat. Since 1900, these imperatives have lessened. Better technology and the one-person-one-vote rule have divorced district boundaries from county boundaries. Nobody other than lawyers cares where the county seat is located. Urbanization and suburbanization have left most of us more conscious of our city or metropolitan area than our county. As a result, Western states have stuck with larger and more mis-shapen counties even as their populations have grown and shifted. New Mexico and Arizona each created one additional county in the 1980’s, and Colorado created the county cited by **brianmelendez** , but that’s been about it for recent decades. And **Bosda** is correct as to the origin of the word. Louisiana’s use of “parishes” is a legacy of its French heritage. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2003, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-counties-come-from/164050/13 "2003-03-25T20:30:03Z")
**dwc** , a parish is, traditionally, a local area controlled by a specific Catholic church. Each church would have a parish to draw parishoners from, and those parishoners would attend church and tithe to that church and so on. As Louisiana was French, and France is a Catholic nation (as opposed to those Anglican Brits), it was divvied up by the Catholics into units suitable for Mother Church. ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2003, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-counties-come-from/164050/14 "2003-03-25T20:50:31Z")
Louisiana uses parishes just because they like to be different. 😉 Alaska has no counties either. Just boroughs. California has 58 counties ranging in population from Alpine - 1192 people to Los Angeles - 9,637,494 (2001 US Census estimates) ---
**Author:** ![Agback](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/977dab/32.png) [@Agback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agback)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2003, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-counties-come-from/164050/15 "2003-03-26T07:38:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Bosda Di’Chi of Tricor \* > **WAG–In England, counties were areas run by a Count.** No, sorry. They have never had counts in England (through earls’ wives are known as ‘countess’). For the purposes of Royal administration, England has always been divided into shires, which are run by sheriffs (the true English equivalents of Carolingian grafs and counts). Earls were really equivalent to Carolingian herzogs and dukes. Regards, Agback