# Where do existentialists go for comfort when the going gets REALLY tough?? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 10, 2014, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-existentialists-go-for-comfort-when-the-going-gets-really-tough/695264 "2014-08-10T20:15:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2014, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-existentialists-go-for-comfort-when-the-going-gets-really-tough/695264/41 "2014-08-12T08:11:12Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Among all the other problems…what guarantee do we have that it would be happy? I’m thinking of Philip Jose Farmer’s “Riverworld” novels. Maybe the afterlife is just a nasty echo of this one, and the wars, rapes, murders, and hatred just keep on and on and on. Or, maybe the afterlife is worse than the mortal world. Maybe we _all_ go to some kind of hell, or our spirits float forever in sensory deprivation because they have no sense organs, or the afterlife is just some boring empty grey limbo. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2014, 9:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-existentialists-go-for-comfort-when-the-going-gets-really-tough/695264/42 "2014-08-12T09:30:09Z")
Personally, I always turn for comfort to books - Terry Pratchett, for instance, is the greatest living existentialist philosopher. Very comforting in times of trouble. Failing that, there’s nothing like a nice cartoon. _Adventure Time_, currently. This is a serious answer. ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2014, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-existentialists-go-for-comfort-when-the-going-gets-really-tough/695264/43 "2014-08-12T10:43:15Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Maybe we _all_ go to some kind of hell, or our spirits float forever in sensory deprivation because they have no sense organs, or the afterlife is just some boring empty grey limbo. Luxury. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2014, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-existentialists-go-for-comfort-when-the-going-gets-really-tough/695264/44 "2014-08-12T13:32:33Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > I agree that one’s own death is something each of us won’t be around to see (or maybe we will-- who knows?). So there is no point in worrying about that. > > Harder to bear is being with a loved one who is suffering over a period of weeks, months, or even years. Harder still if that loved one is a child. Yes, you endure it. Because you have to. Although I understand that some people do bail. At such moments, it’s human nature (IMHO) to look for something somewhere to ease your own pain, for some solace or meaning. Connection with others can help. > > But according to some of you, for some reason, existentialists can do without this sort of comfort, eh? I don’t identify as an existentialist, though I’ve always found Nieztsche’s views compelling. I imagine that for a die-hard existentialist, there is comfort in pain itself. Without pain, you can’t grow. You can’t learn anything. There is nothing to reflect back on. You have no motivation to improve yourself. You can’t experience the wonder of love if you never know its absence. So if you feel bad, that must mean you doing something right. IMHO, I believe this thinking, taken to an extreme, can be just as delusional as Christian schlock. Which is why I would make a horrible Buddhist. But I do find it helpful when I can’t come up with any other comforting thought. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2014, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-existentialists-go-for-comfort-when-the-going-gets-really-tough/695264/45 "2014-08-12T13:58:16Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Even non-theists take comfort in nature, in an all-encompassing, indefinable Oneness. and/or in the notion that there is some meaning somewhere even if we’re not able to see it here and now. Where do you get this idea? It sounds like you think that atheists turn to Mother Gaia when they get dumped by their SO. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2014, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-existentialists-go-for-comfort-when-the-going-gets-really-tough/695264/46 "2014-08-12T14:48:05Z")
I am a theist, so I’m not exactly those whom you’re asking, but at the same time I do have some existentialist ideas in my philosophy. One of the key things for me is where many others who are theists might pray for comfort in dark times, I don’t. On the one hand, even if there is a greater purpose to our existence, and that’s not a given in my philosophy even as a theist, it’s not something that I think I’m able to understand. So, if there is, then these things that are happening are happening to further that cause, and who am I to question an end that I’d have to trust is for the greater good and I can’t even comprehend. It’s like a child questioning his parent when he’s told not to do something, and while the parent may have a good reason, he may not have the intellect yet to understand. So it seems to me that, even if there is purpose, at our level of our ability to consider, it is functionally the same as not having any purpose at all. As such, I find my comfort in a few ideas, primarily the idea of emergent purpose. That is, even out of the randomness, patterns emerge, and one of those is purpose. In short, as one of my favorite artists put it, “we’re here because we’re here”. I don’t find solace in the concept that life is a means to an end, our existence is an end in and of itself, and we get to decide what meaning we assign to that. It’s like looking at a work of art, listening to a piece of music, watching a film, or whatever. Maybe I know why that artist created it and what he intends to communicate with it, but chances are I don’t. Either way, the art may only exist because of that artist and his purpose, that that doesn’t make him the sole arbiter of it’s meaning, and anyone who views it gets to imbue it with his own meaning. So, the greater purpose only really matters in the initial spark to create it, but after it exists, that becomes its purpose and it takes on a life of it’s own. And so, when I awaken at 3AM by the troubles of the world or my own demons, I find my solace in assigning my own purpose to these events. As I like to say, “A regret is a lesson unlearned.” That is, when I encounter these rough spots, there’s almost always something that I can pull out of it and learn from it, maybe it’s as simple as a way to prevent these unfortunate circumstances from happening again in the future, maybe it’s a call to action, maybe it’s something I can change in my own life. Often, just a little bit of meditation on that idea, and it helps me sleep. ---
**Author:** ![Dobbs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Dobbs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dobbs)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2014, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-existentialists-go-for-comfort-when-the-going-gets-really-tough/695264/47 "2014-08-12T15:03:13Z")
So remember, when you’re feeling very small and insecure How amazingly unlikely is your birth And pray that there’s intelligent life somewhere up in space 'Cause there’s bugger all down here on Earth ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2014, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-existentialists-go-for-comfort-when-the-going-gets-really-tough/695264/48 "2014-08-12T15:25:43Z")
Thank you for those thoughtful replies, especially yours, Blaster Master. > [@Ravenman](#): > > Where do you get this idea? It sounds like you think that atheists turn to Mother Gaia when they get dumped by their SO. [non-theist](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nontheism) =/= athiest You think that’s what my question sounded like? Interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2014, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-existentialists-go-for-comfort-when-the-going-gets-really-tough/695264/49 "2014-08-12T15:57:10Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > [non-theist](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nontheism) =/= athiest As the article says, “sometimes used synonymously with the term atheism…” > [@](#): > > You think that’s what my question sounded like? Interesting. I really am curious why you think that it is common for the irreligious take solace in an all-encompassing, indefinable Oneness. ---
**Author:** ![DingoelGringo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@DingoelGringo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DingoelGringo)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2014, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-existentialists-go-for-comfort-when-the-going-gets-really-tough/695264/50 "2014-08-12T16:03:06Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > No, I don’t mean booze, sex, food, travel, shopping, etc., where other human beings go. > > I mean where in their philosophy/thought system do they go? People who permit themselves the comfort of God, religion, afterlife fall back on those things when the going gets tough. Even non-theists take comfort in nature, in an all-encompassing, indefinable Oneness. and/or in the notion that there is some meaning somewhere even if we’re not able to see it here and now. > > I’ve been reading a book by existentialist psychotherapist Irvin Yalom, _Love’s Executioner_, and he is a refreshing, if icy cold, drink of water. There’s no padding on his stainless steel view of reality. It’s like sleeping on a nylon tarp on the hard ground. Spare, but honest. Myself, I have a mattress, a memory foam pad, and a featherbed on top of that. And sometimes I still wake in fear. > > Existentialism seems like a useful and functional pov for dealing with life’s practical problems. But what about when facing the Big Dark Void (death, in some form or other)? This could be a terminal diagnosis-- yours or a loved one’s-- advanced age when there seems to be nothing left, the apparently deteriorating state of world affairs, especially if your or loved ones are smack in the middle of them… what do existentialists tell themselves when they wake at 3 a.m. in the dark? > > I expect a few flippant answers, but I’d like some serious ones, too, please. There have been several cases of prominent atheists who have been confronted on their death bed with “What do you think now?” and answered sanely, That they’d soon be gone. Mark Twain comes to mind"There are Angels waiting on the other side " it is said he was told and he said "Let 'em wait, damn them let 'em wait. Carl Sagan lists several others in his book. Probably Ayn Rand went soft in her final hours because medicaid which she’d railed against for so many years she accepted in her last years,. so probably the fantasy of Heaven also. ---
**Author:** ![DingoelGringo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@DingoelGringo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DingoelGringo)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2014, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-existentialists-go-for-comfort-when-the-going-gets-really-tough/695264/51 "2014-08-12T16:09:03Z")
Those who should have fear in their last moments will be the believers. My father was trembling with the fear of whether all his sins had been forgiven and he was going to go to Hell to be burned for ever and ever. If he could have let go of his fantasy induced fear he could have died peacefully realizing that hat was the end. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2014, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-existentialists-go-for-comfort-when-the-going-gets-really-tough/695264/52 "2014-08-12T16:12:26Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > As the article says, “sometimes used synonymously with the term atheism…” But not necessarily. And not the way I meant it. > [@](#): > > I really am curious why you think that it is common for the irreligious take solace in an all-encompassing, indefinable Oneness. Did I say it was common? No. ---
**Author:** ![DingoelGringo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@DingoelGringo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DingoelGringo)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2014, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-existentialists-go-for-comfort-when-the-going-gets-really-tough/695264/53 "2014-08-12T16:15:32Z")
> [@Mr.Natural](#): > > gee. That reminds me of Roy Batty’s final monologue. > > [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIDlTGd7Y9U](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIDlTGd7Y9U) Quite batty actually. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2014, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-existentialists-go-for-comfort-when-the-going-gets-really-tough/695264/54 "2014-08-12T16:21:35Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > In a way, I can’t understand the question because it never was a comfort to me, back when I was ostensibly a believer, to think about heaven or God or religion or anything. I didn’t turn to God when the going got tough. Some portion of my brain thought I should, but I didn’t. So now, I still don’t turn to God and that portion of my brain no longer feels any weird guilt about my self-sufficiency. > > I don’t turn to anything for comfort. I cry or rage or sulk or try to fall back asleep with my heart pounding out of my chest. But I never really seek comfort. I just endure. > > These moments are pretty rare for me. Death is a bastard but, well, there it is. Well, this perfectly describes me. I was pretty confused by the OP – I don’t think I (metaphorically) go anywhere for comfort. I have friends and family that may be able to help, and I imagine existentialists have those too, but barring that, I would endure. Or not, I suppose. The OPs worldview seems so alien to my own life. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2014, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-existentialists-go-for-comfort-when-the-going-gets-really-tough/695264/55 "2014-08-12T16:34:22Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Among all the other problems…what guarantee do we have that it would be happy? I’m thinking of Philip Jose Farmer’s “Riverworld” novels. Maybe the afterlife is just a nasty echo of this one, and the wars, rapes, murders, and hatred just keep on and on and on. > > Also… Well, I’m not really sure I want to see my father again. We didn’t get along too well. Can I have an afterlife where reunions are optional, and only by mutual agreement? Maybe he and I could write letters to each other for a while before we meet? Your denying the premise of the hypothetical. I said I’d be happy “if I believed that lost loved ones were still existing in some happy afterlife.” Obviously I would not be happy if this afterlife was a miserable place and I was there with people I didn’t like. I addressed that point in my first post. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2014, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-existentialists-go-for-comfort-when-the-going-gets-really-tough/695264/56 "2014-08-12T16:36:26Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > The OPs worldview seems so alien to my own life. That’s exactly what I’m getting at by questioning the premise of the OP, and I can’t figure out why existentialists are being called out as perhaps responding differently than other irreligious people. It’s so puzzling to me that there’s an expectation that the irreligious would go to anything else other than their friends, family, and understanding of themselves in times of adversity; which is what makes this idea of the irreligious going to some kind of unknown Oneness so odd. And to the extent that life seems scary or cruel, I think most irreligious would simply acknowledge reality on reality’s terms: yes, we die. Yes, there is pain. The question of why may simply obscure the ability to acknowledge reality and life within it. ---
**Author:** ![Lo-Slung\_Denim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f6c823/32.png) [@Lo-Slung\_Denim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lo-Slung_Denim)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2014, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-existentialists-go-for-comfort-when-the-going-gets-really-tough/695264/57 "2014-08-12T17:06:38Z")
Victor Frankly sums up Nietzsche in Man’s Search For Meaning - “a man can live with any how if he has a why” (I’m paraphrasing) Yalom has his fictional Nietzsche give a thought experiment in When Nietzsche Wept - imagine time isn’t linear and you must live the same life over and over again, like an hourglass of sand being repeatedly turned. Every decision, you must make now and make it again for eternity. What are your decisions? That’s fairly comforting, I think. Yalom’s book on death anxiety, Staring At The Sun, reminds us that we did not exist for millennia before our births, and that wasn’t so bad… being dead is the same. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2014, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-existentialists-go-for-comfort-when-the-going-gets-really-tough/695264/58 "2014-08-12T17:12:12Z")
> [@Lo-Slung\_Denim](#): > > Victor Frankly sums up Nietzsche in Man’s Search For Meaning - “a man can live with any how if he has a why” (I’m paraphrasing) I’ve always thought “Why?” was the most overrated question. I think “Now what?” is the one to ask. “Given X, what do you do next?” ---
**Author:** ![Lanzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/74df32/32.png) [@Lanzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lanzy)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2014, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-existentialists-go-for-comfort-when-the-going-gets-really-tough/695264/59 "2014-08-12T17:17:27Z")
When things are shit and scary? “This too shall pass.” All I need. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2014, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-existentialists-go-for-comfort-when-the-going-gets-really-tough/695264/60 "2014-08-12T18:31:28Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > That’s exactly what I’m getting at by questioning the premise of the OP, and I can’t figure out why existentialists are being called out as perhaps responding differently than other irreligious people. The following is the only reason why–because of what I’ve been reading. Nothing more to it than that. Didn’t mean to sound like I was “calling anyone out.” :dubious: > [@ThelmaLou](#): > > I’ve been reading a book by existentialist psychotherapist Irvin Yalom, _Love’s Executioner_… > [@Lo-Slung\_Denim](#): > > Victor Frankly sums up Nietzsche in Man’s Search For Meaning - “a man can live with any how if he has a why” (I’m paraphrasing) > > Yalom has his fictional Nietzsche give a thought experiment in When Nietzsche Wept - imagine time isn’t linear and you must live the same life over and over again, like an hourglass of sand being repeatedly turned. Every decision, you must make now and make it again for eternity. What are your decisions? That’s fairly comforting, I think. > > Yalom’s book on death anxiety, Staring At The Sun, reminds us that we did not exist for millennia before our births, and that wasn’t so bad… being dead is the same. I’ve just gotten his book _The Schopenhauer Cure_ for my kindle. Have you read it? How do you rate Yalom as a novelist? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-existentialists-go-for-comfort-when-the-going-gets-really-tough/695264.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-existentialists-go-for-comfort-when-the-going-gets-really-tough/695264.md?page=4)