# Where Do Orientals Say They Live...? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 21, 2004, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-orientals-say-they-live/270467 "2004-10-21T19:18:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Zarina](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Zarina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zarina)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2004, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-orientals-say-they-live/270467/41 "2004-10-23T20:42:55Z")
During the period when the Cho Chang auditions where all the hype here (UK,) some people reffered to Chinese people as Oriental, being Chinese myself, I don’t mind it when people say that, I don’t find it offensive at all because like someone else said, it distinguishes me from Indians etc. Then an English person commented that ‘Oriental’ was offensive which I found quite strange. IMHO I think that in the UK, the word Asian applies to mainly Indians, Pakistani and the like, I have never been called Asian, and in the US, I think that people see Asian as ‘Oriental’ people. ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2004, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-orientals-say-they-live/270467/42 "2004-10-23T21:22:17Z")
So far as I know, no one is offended by the use of “East Asian” for people from the Far East, South Asian for people from India and the surrounding countries, Middle Eastern for people from Arabia, Russian for people from Russia, etc. So why not just play it safe and use those? Arguing whether or not a certain word _should_ be offensive is beside the point. Either people are offended by it or they aren’t. Sometimes (most of the time?) a word becomes offensive not because of its origin, but because it’s been frequently used to refer to that group when making derogatory statements, and has thus taken on negative connotations. I think “oriental” falls into this category. The word just means “eastern”, but it’s been used in a derogatory way often enough that for some people it now has a negative connotation. Heck, even the N word is really just a variation on “negro” (which was a perfectly acceptable term at the time the N word came into prominence). It’s the way the word has been used in the past that makes it so offensive. ---
**Author:** ![Doobieous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/da6949/32.png) [@Doobieous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doobieous)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2004, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-orientals-say-they-live/270467/43 "2004-10-25T05:22:41Z")
I simply have to laugh my ass off at people who rail so hard about the “big, bad PC people telling them that a word is wrong to use”. Words change, meanings and associations do as well. Get over yourselves and change with the times. FYI: I don’t find oriental offensive (I am half Filipino), i simply find it stilted, stuffy, and a relict of the turn of the century. Also, the various ethnicities in Asia don’t define themselves by a broad geographic term anyway, as others have said. Even within countries there isn’t a lot of unity. Most Filipinos will for instance identify with at the smallest their city, and at the most maybe the Philippines, but the general answer is to identify with ethnic/linguistic affiliations. The largest geographical grouping i’ve seen Filipinos use to refer to themselves is “Visayan” which covers several major islands in the center of the country, but Visayans tend to be a bit different from the Tagalogs for instance. A Filipino most likely won’t identify with a Japanese person for instance (especially so among the older people). ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2004, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-orientals-say-they-live/270467/44 "2004-10-25T06:10:46Z")
> [@Doobieous](#): > > I simply have to laugh my ass off at people who rail so hard about the “big, bad PC people telling them that a word is wrong to use”. Words change, meanings and associations do as well. Get over yourselves and change with the times. I could say precisely the same thing to people who rail so hard about the newest “Word you cannot write, speak, or even think.” > [@](#): > > Also, the various ethnicities in Asia don’t define themselves by a broad geographic term anyway, as others have said. Even within countries there isn’t a lot of unity. Most Filipinos will for instance identify with at the smallest their city, and at the most maybe the Philippines, but the general answer is to identify with ethnic/linguistic affiliations. The largest geographical grouping i’ve seen Filipinos use to refer to themselves is “Visayan” which covers several major islands in the center of the country, but Visayans tend to be a bit different from the Tagalogs for instance. I find this fascinating. Isn’t it true that there are many major dialects in the Philippines? I heard this from an elementary school teacher, so I haven’t given it much weight, but it would be interesting to hear someone with direct knowledge of the region talk about the linguistic situation there. > [@](#): > > A Filipino most likely won’t identify with a Japanese person for instance (especially so among the older people). This is something completely different, especially among the older people. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2004, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-orientals-say-they-live/270467/45 "2004-10-25T09:01:03Z")
> [@Doobieous](#): > > Also, the various ethnicities in Asia don’t define themselves by a broad geographic term anyway, as others have said. Even within countries there isn’t a lot of unity. …A Filipino most likely won’t identify with a Japanese person for instance (especially so among the older people). Sure. But I don’t identify with a Scot, let alone a Finn or Albanian - does that make the term ‘European’ meaningless? ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2004, 10:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-orientals-say-they-live/270467/46 "2004-10-25T10:53:17Z")
> [@](#): > > A Filipino most likely won’t identify with a Japanese person for instance (especially so among the older people). Old British people won’t identify themselves with a French person. ---
**Author:** ![Jinx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Jinx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jinx)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2004, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-orientals-say-they-live/270467/47 "2004-10-25T13:08:07Z")
> [@GorillaMan](#): > > So because _you_ don’t think it’s offensive, nobody should be offended by it? Oriental refers to a geographic region. That is all it is. A region of Asia. Nothing more, nothing less. Why is that so offensive? Now, you’re gonna go and change all the rules (in the past ten years), right? Is the prefix “Sino-” still acceptable? > [@GorillaMan](#): > > What if I use your same logic to assert that ‘Paki’ isn’t offensive? I’ve never heard the term, but one day, you’ll tell me the term “Pakistani” is offensive, as well. Why? On the same grounds that it labels people to some specific geographic region? So, it is still ok to say that someone from Denmark is Danish? - Jinx ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2004, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-orientals-say-they-live/270467/48 "2004-10-25T13:41:09Z")
Derleth writes: \> Isn’t it true that there are many major dialects in the Philippines? There are lots of different languages spoken in the Philippines. Here I’m talking about languages native to the Philippines, not European colonial ones. Tagalog is the most common of the native languages. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2004, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-orientals-say-they-live/270467/49 "2004-10-25T13:45:38Z")
> [@Jinx](#): > > Oriental refers to a geographic region. That is all it is… I’ve never heard the term, but one day, you’ll tell me the term “Pakistani” is offensive, as well… > So, it is still ok to say that someone from Denmark is Danish? The dictionary is a good place to start with these kinds of questions: [Merriam-Webster, “sometimes offensive;”](http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=Oriental) [Encarta World Dictionary, “taboo term;”](http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/features/dictionary/DictionaryResults.aspx?refid=1861684868) [dictionary.com, “Often offensive.”](http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=oriental) It’s not terribly hard to keep track of these things, because a good, up-to-date dictionary probably won’t steer you wrong. It’s not like the definition changes every week; it’s more like once a decade. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2004, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-orientals-say-they-live/270467/50 "2004-10-25T18:49:33Z")
> [@Jinx](#): > > I’ve never heard the term, but one day, you’ll tell me the term “Pakistani” is offensive, as well. Why? On the same grounds that it labels people to some specific geographic region? No - Paki is offensive because it’s used to cause offence. Trust me, don’t even think of trying to use it in Britain, it’d be like a white guy wandering around LA defending his casual use of ‘nigger’. BBC research into public perception of offensive language: > [@](#): > > “In research, 50% or more people said the words that should never be broadcast are cunt, motherfucker, nigger, Paki and spastic. Young women also don’t like whore, slag and twat. But fuck wasn’t on the list.” > **[How the F-word lost its teeth](https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2002/nov/21/britishidentity.features11)** > > The f-word has become so commonplace it now seems acceptable in everyday conversation. Is it no longer obscene? And if it isn't, what is? Jonathan Margolis investigates. ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2004, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-orientals-say-they-live/270467/51 "2004-10-28T19:47:46Z")
> [@rfgdxm](#): > > The Civil Rights era was the mid to late 1960s, and that was quite a while ago. I thought it was around this time that the transition from “colored” to “black” as the PC term happened. Around then – “colored” and “Negro” were the more polite terms as late as the 1950s, anyway, and I’m given to understand that “black” was insulting. > [@](#): > > And Berkeley, CA isn’t terribly representative of the US as a whole. Peoria would be. The U.S. as a whole is rather beside the point. Berkeley is one of the primary sources of PC language in America, and my experience there indicates that “Oriental” has been regarded as offensive **somewhere** for at least 20 years. ---
**Author:** ![WonJonSoup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/dc4da7/32.png) [@WonJonSoup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WonJonSoup)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2004, 9:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-orientals-say-they-live/270467/52 "2004-10-29T09:03:17Z")
> [@Jinx](#): > > Oriental refers to a geographic region. That is all it is. A region of Asia. Nothing more, nothing less. Why is that so offensive? Now, you’re gonna go and change all the rules (in the past ten years), right? Is the prefix “Sino-” still acceptable? > > I’ve never heard the term, but one day, you’ll tell me the term “Pakistani” is offensive, as well. Why? On the same grounds that it labels people to some specific geographic region? > > So, it is still ok to say that someone from Denmark is Danish? > > - Jinx Nigger came from the Latin niger, meaning black. Sand nigger refers to dark skinned Arabs living in the desert. Raghead refers to the wrappings a lot of the more traditional Arabs might wear. Spic is a shortening of Hispanic. Jap is a shortening of Japanese. Tard is a shortening of retarded. Gook came about from “Me-guk,” what a Korean might’ve said during the Korean War when they saw a White guy (and alot of Americans seriously thought they were telling them that they’re called gooks in Korean, so it wasn’t even offensive at first). Break it down and none of these should be offensive, right? One’s referring to skin tone, which when compared to the other races, Africans ARE dark. A lot of Arabs ARE dark and they DO live in the desert. A lot of Arabs DO wear rags over their heads. And the rest are just shortenings. It doesn’t matter how the word came about, or whether logically it should be offensive. If 2 million Chinese-Americans find it offensive if you called them Oriental, are you seriously telling me you’re in the right by saying it shouldn’t be offensive therefore it isn’t??? No, PC terms shouldn’t be made up on the spot for the heck of it. But most of there terms weren’t deemed offensive arbitrarily. People seriously found it offensive because of the negative connations attached to them. Plus, if you called that Chinese-American guy, “Oriental,” you DO imagine something more exotic and ancient than if you called him, “Asian.” At least in America. ---
**Author:** ![athelas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@athelas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/athelas)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2004, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-orientals-say-they-live/270467/53 "2004-10-29T12:32:22Z")
As a child of Chinese immigrants, I hear “Oriental” used all the time and dislike the widespread use of the vague “Asian” among the 30% East-Asian population in my school. But heck - Chinese-Americans have too little political clout/will to whine to make the same changes as other minorities. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-do-orientals-say-they-live/270467.md?page=2)